Salvation Not Possible Without Works

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Jabberjaw

Jabberjaw

Senior Member
#2,081
Mar 21, 2014
1,039
7
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#2,081
VCO said:
SEE, you start off with your presuppositions BASED ON FALSEHOODS.

WE ARE NOT "FAITH ONLY" ADVOCATES.

WE ARE SALVATION IS BY GRACE ONLY ADVOCATES.
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How can you be "grace only" when the bible says faith is a requirement?

Romans 5:1-2 (NKJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, [SUP]2 [/SUP]through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
 
L

LT

Guest
#2,082
#2,082
SeaBass said:
If people would use "logic", they would see that faith is a work.
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so you intentionally want to contradict the Scriptures, for the sake of your own philosophy?

Please finish responding to post 2026

The Scripture is our guide. Scripture says that faith is not a work. Your logic doesn't matter.
If it says "by faith, not of works," then faith cannot be included in the category called "works".
 
L

LT

Guest
#2,083
#2,083
Jabberjaw said:
Your wrong, its biblical, but your right we are saved through obedience, "righteous works of obedience" just like Abraham was, we "through righteous works of obedience to Christ" are saved, not by "works of merit of the Jewish Law"
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so salvation is about rejecting the OT, and turning the NT into a lawbook?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#2,084
#2,084
LT said:
so you intentionally want to contradict the Scriptures, for the sake of your own philosophy?

Please finish responding to post 2026

The Scripture is our guide. Scripture says that faith is not a work. Your logic doesn't matter.
If it says "by faith, not of works," then faith cannot be included in the category called "works".
Click to expand...

good luck getting him to respond to everything, He likes to selectively respond only to things he thinks he has a handle on, He will not respond to anything he most likely knows he can not answer.
 
Jabberjaw

Jabberjaw

Senior Member
#2,086
Mar 21, 2014
1,039
7
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#2,086
LT said:
so salvation is about rejecting the OT, and turning the NT into a lawbook?
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Yes:

Colossians 2:14-15 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; [SUP]15 [/SUP]And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.


Hebrews 8:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
 
L

LT

Guest
#2,087
#2,087
Jabberjaw said:
Yes:

Colossians 2:14-15 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; [SUP]15 [/SUP]And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.


Hebrews 8:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Click to expand...
Thank you for being honest.

I wish you would read the rest of both of those passages in context, but we both know it wouldn't make a difference to you even if there was a verse that said "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness..."

...oh wait...

2 Timothy 3:16

The New Covenant is a better Covenant because it relies solely on the work of God (the obedience of Christ), and not on the work of man.
The Old Covenant was flawed because it relied on the obedience of man.
 
Jabberjaw

Jabberjaw

Senior Member
#2,088
Mar 21, 2014
1,039
7
38
#2,088
LT said:
Thank you for being honest.

I wish you would read the rest of both of those passages in context, but we both know it wouldn't make a difference to you even if there was a verse that said "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness..."

...oh wait...

2 Timothy 3:16

The New Covenant is a better Covenant because it relies solely on the work of God (the obedience of Christ), and not on the work of man.
The Old Covenant was flawed because it relied on the obedience of man.
Click to expand...
I don't cherry pick as the faith only have to do, and nailing the OT to the cross does not make it any less scripture, it is our schoolmaster, we just are not under it any longer :

Galatians 3:25 (KJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

But that does not mean because we are under faith, we don't need to keep all his commands :

Matthew 28:20 (NKJV)
[SUP]20[/SUP]teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.
 
VCO

VCO

Senior Member
#2,089
Oct 14, 2013
11,991
4,606
113
#2,089
Jabberjaw said:
Your wrong, its biblical, but your right we are saved through obedience, "righteous works of obedience" just like Abraham was, we "through righteous works of obedience to Christ" are saved, not by "works of merit of the Jewish Law"
Click to expand...
What do you do with verse 9?

Do you just ignore it?

Do you just pretend it does not exist?

OR is it like you stated above, you just ADD WORDS TO IT, UNTIL IT SAYS WHAT YOU WANT IT TO SAY.

IT SAYS NOT BY WORKS PERIOD.

Deuteronomy 4:2 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] "You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Proverbs 30:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Do not add to His words Or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar.
 
VCO

VCO

Senior Member
#2,090
Oct 14, 2013
11,991
4,606
113
#2,090
Jabberjaw said:
I don't cherry pick as the faith only have to do, and nailing the OT to the cross does not make it any less scripture, it is our schoolmaster, we just are not under it any longer :

Galatians 3:25 (KJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

But that does not mean because we are under faith, we don't need to keep all his commands :

Matthew 28:20 (NKJV)
[SUP]20[/SUP]teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.
Click to expand...
WE DO NOT OBEY to get Saved but because we ARE SAVED and want to love HIM BACK.

My turn to ask you a couple questions.

Has there ever been a time in your life when you wept and mourned over you utter sinfulness?

Has there ever been a time in your life, when you sincerely cried out to the LORD, surrendering complete control of your life to HIM as your MASTER?
 
VCO

VCO

Senior Member
#2,091
Oct 14, 2013
11,991
4,606
113
#2,091
Jabberjaw said:
How can you be "grace only" when the bible says faith is a requirement?

Romans 5:1-2 (NKJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, [SUP]2 [/SUP]through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Click to expand...
Faith is not something I dreamed up, but rather it too comes from GOD, as a free gift of HIS GRACE.
 
Jabberjaw

Jabberjaw

Senior Member
#2,092
Mar 21, 2014
1,039
7
38
#2,092
VCO said:
What do you do with verse 9?


Do you just ignore it?

Do you just pretend it does not exist?

OR is it like you stated above, you just ADD WORDS TO IT, UNTIL IT SAYS WHAT YOU WANT IT TO SAY.


IT SAYS NOT BY WORKS PERIOD.

Deuteronomy 4:2 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] "You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Proverbs 30:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Do not add to His words Or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar.
Click to expand...
Verse 9 of what? Galatians 3:9? If that is what your talking about, I see the word "faith" but I can't seem to find the word "only" in there so it must be you that is adding to.
 
Jabberjaw

Jabberjaw

Senior Member
#2,093
Mar 21, 2014
1,039
7
38
#2,093
VCO said:
WE DO NOT OBEY to get Saved but because we ARE SAVED and want to love HIM BACK.
Click to expand...
If you were "saved" without "obeying" then at what point did you repent? before or after you were saved?

VCO said:
My turn to ask you a couple questions.

Has there ever been a time in your life when you wept and mourned over you utter sinfulness?
Click to expand...
Yes, every day, especially before I lay my head down at night.

VCO said:
Has there ever been a time in your life, when you sincerely cried out to the LORD, surrendering complete control of your life to HIM as your MASTER?
Click to expand...
Yes, every day, especially before I lay my head down at night.
 
Jabberjaw

Jabberjaw

Senior Member
#2,094
Mar 21, 2014
1,039
7
38
#2,094
VCO said:
Faith is not something I dreamed up, but rather it too comes from GOD, as a free gift of HIS GRACE.
Click to expand...
That is where you have it wrong, "Grace" is the free gift, "Grace is the part of God, Faith is the part of man, God does not make you have faith.
 
Jabberjaw

Jabberjaw

Senior Member
#2,095
Mar 21, 2014
1,039
7
38
#2,095
LT said:
so you intentionally want to contradict the Scriptures, for the sake of your own philosophy?

Please finish responding to post 2026

The Scripture is our guide. Scripture says that faith is not a work. Your logic doesn't matter.
If it says "by faith, not of works," then faith cannot be included in the category called "works".
Click to expand...
Scripture says faith IS a work:

 1 Thessalonians 1:3 (NKJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]remembering without ceasing your work of faith, labor of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ in the sight of our God and Father,
 
P

psalm6819

Guest
#2,096
#2,096
Romans 12:3
For I say , through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think ; but to think soberly , according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Faith isn't work it's trusting God.
 
V

Vaudeville

Banned
#2,097
Mar 5, 2014
494
3
0
#2,097
Jabberjaw said:
Scripture says faith IS a work:

 1 Thessalonians 1:3 (NKJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]remembering without ceasing your work of faith, labor of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ in the sight of our God and Father,
Click to expand...
this is getting funny.

the subject is the saved christians labors of love for their brothers. which we have all said are the fruit of justification (being a new creation, saved).


We remember before our God and Father your work produced by faith, your labor prompted by love, and your endurance inspired by hope in our Lord Jesus Christ.


As we pray to our God and Father about you, we think of your faithful work, your loving deeds, and the enduring hope you have because of our Lord Jesus Christ.
 
L

LT

Guest
#2,098
#2,098
Jabberjaw said:
Scripture says faith IS a work:

 1 Thessalonians 1:3 (NKJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]remembering without ceasing your work of faith, labor of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ in the sight of our God and Father,
Click to expand...
does this verse mean that faith is the work, or are we called to remember the work produced by faith... lol

read the passage with some discernment, not just reading into it what you want.
 
Jabberjaw

Jabberjaw

Senior Member
#2,099
Mar 21, 2014
1,039
7
38
#2,099
Vaudeville said:
this is getting funny.

the subject is the saved christians labors of love for their brothers. which we have all said are the fruit of justification (being a new creation, saved).


We remember before our God and Father your work produced by faith, your labor prompted by love, and your endurance inspired by hope in our Lord Jesus Christ.
Click to expand...
You will not find "work produced by faith" anywhere in the Bible... and if you quote 1 Thess. 1:3 out of the abomination NIV I challenge you to prove the insertion of "produced by" in the Greek.


Vaudeville said:
As we pray to our God and Father about you, we think of your faithful work, your loving deeds, and the enduring hope you have because of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Click to expand...
So you agree faith is a work and salvation is not possible without works.
 
Jabberjaw

Jabberjaw

Senior Member
#2,100
Mar 21, 2014
1,039
7
38
#2,100
LT said:
does this verse mean that faith is the work, or are we called to remember the work produced by faith... lol

read the passage with some discernment, not just reading into it what you want.
Click to expand...
Quote me the Greek that the NIV translates "produced by"?

Get yourself another version, "produced by" is an interpretation, not a translation because its not in the Greek.
 
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