Salvation Not Possible Without Works

[eternally-gratefull]

so if there is not work, then fuel is in vain, therefore one cannot have faith without works.

wow dude, You are doing everything you can to stop from seeing truth, I have never seen anyone so desperate.

Your the engine, Faith is the fuel. God is the driver, He startes the engine, He leads, He guides. He directs. The motor is useless without God. that is why without God it will just sit there and not do anything, it has no rudder to guide it so to speak.

However. God can not guide the motor unless there is fuel in the tank (faith)

and if the motor does not have God. it will never do any work. because we try to fill the gas tank with tainted fuel which can not cause the motor to do anything.

 

[Jabberjaw]

wow dude, You are doing everything you can to stop from seeing truth, I have never seen anyone so desperate.

Your the engine, Faith is the fuel. God is the driver, He startes the engine, He leads, He guides. He directs. The motor is useless without God. that is why without God it will just sit there and not do anything, it has no rudder to guide it so to speak.

However. God can not guide the motor unless there is fuel in the tank (faith)

and if the motor does not have God. it will never do any work. because we try to fill the gas tank with tainted fuel which can not cause the motor to do anything.

No, you are going in circles trying to support your view, Grace is Gods part, Faith is mans part, God will not make you have faith.

 

[Vaudeville]

so if there is not work, then fuel is in vain, therefore one cannot have faith without works.

Jabberjaw, if i am a bus driver and i treat my passengers with kindness, and do not rob my employer through any means, am i serving my neighbour and thereby glorifying God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, you are going in circles trying to support your view, Grace is Gods part, Faith is mans part, God will not make you have faith.

No, You are going in circles. It can get no clearer than the picture I showed.

God supplies the fuel (faith) but man has to put it in the tank. Faith is a gift of God.

If you want to steer your own engine and take credit for where it goes. Good luck. Your engine will not get you there because your fuel is tainted, the fuel never was given life to be able to cause the engine to do any work. .

I will allow God to steer me where he needs me to go. to serve who he needs me to serve, My engine will only fail when I refuse to use the fuel he gives me, and try to replace it with my own fuel (unbelief).

 

[Jabberjaw]

Jabberjaw, if i am a bus driver and i treat my passengers with kindness, and do not rob my employer through any means, am i serving my neighbour and thereby glorifying God.

How do you get salvation out of that?

 

[Jabberjaw]

No, You are going in circles. It can get no clearer than the picture I showed.

God supplies the fuel (faith) but man has to put it in the tank. Faith is a gift of God.

We are getting closer, at least now you're realizing man must do something, now all you have to do is get this right, "God's gift is 'grace' ", mans part is faith, God will not make you have faith, or have faith for you, it is something you must do.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We are getting closer, at least now you're realizing man must do something, now all you have to do is get this right, "God's gift is 'grace' ", mans part is faith, God will not make you have faith, or have faith for you, it is something you must do.

lol.

It is not my faith it is Gods. You still fail to listen to reason

again, I can fill the tank with my fuel (unbelief) or I can allow God to fill it with his fuel (faith)

 

[Jabberjaw]

lol.

It is not my faith it is Gods. You still fail to listen to reason

again, I can fill the tank with my fuel (unbelief) or I can allow God to fill it with his fuel (faith)

So you must make a choice, man must do something to have faith. otherwise they have unbelief, and by the Grace of God you have a choice.

 

[Vaudeville]

How do you get salvation out of that?

is that a good work that will (according to you) assist in my salvation. (as if you didnt know what i meant).

 

[SeaBass]

2 Timothy 1:9 who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Titus 3:5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Whether a man works or not
God is not a liar, man is and twists the truth of God's free gift to all that beleive God, too dsimple for you maybe?

We do because of waht has been done even if we do not, God has, nad notihng can separate us from God
Romans 8:39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

i have received from Father through Chirst and all that believe ahve the same and God does not change, man does

2 Tim 1:9; Titus 1;5 refer to works of merit, not obedience to God's will. Rom 11:29, God's gifts and calling are not changing.


Heb 5:9 "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;"

It cannot get any more plainer than Heb 5:9

 

[SeaBass]

God works through a person that is saved come forth as fruit not waxed fruit as flesh is waxed fruit and when one takes a bite of waxed fruit there is left a bad taste in their mouth and seek the one and only true God leaving religion behind
For religion is based on what I am doing, not what God did. It uses what God did to one to work from the energy of their own flesh to be rewarded as if God the creator is a vending machine
God is the creator I am the creation, Creation does not create, creation responds to the creator
So is the difference of flesh and Spirit of God

Both Paul [Rom 6:16-18] and James, [James 2:24] says obedient works justify. God tells man to believe, repent, confess and be baptized and a man that obeys what God says, then God is working in that man as seen by his obedience in doing what God says. God is not working in those that do nothing, that do not do what he says.

 

[SeaBass]

The ? here is waht works of self flesh or God's spiritual works?
Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

In Rom 4:2 Paul is speaking of works of merit, not obedience to God's will as Abraham had. Paul does not contradict James when James said "by works a man is justifed" not did Paul contradit himself in Rom 6:16-18 when he said obedience justifies.

 

[Jabberjaw]

is that a good work that will (according to you) assist in my salvation. (as if you didnt know what i meant).

One can have good works without faith, but one cannot have faith without good works James 2:26

 James 2:26 (NKJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

 

[Vaudeville]

One can have good works without faith, but one cannot have faith without good works James 2:26

 James 2:26 (NKJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

even though youre playing games, ill rephrase it.
as a simple christian man, when i go to work everyday to provide for my family and my church and pastor, if i am kind to my passengers and do my job well, and do not rob my employer, is this a good christian work.

does it fall within the so-called golden rule, or serving my neighbor.
does it contribute to my salvation.

 

[SeaBass]

please look up justified in the greek. save yourself all that anguish.
james said men are seen/shown to be righteous (justified/saved) by their works. can't you understand what is said about abraham? for goodness sake SeaBass!

James says ------"Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only"

Faith only says--- "Ye see how by works a man is NOT justified, but is justifed by faith only"

Faith only is in total, complete opposition to the bible.

 

[Jabberjaw]

even though youre playing games, ill rephrase it.
as a simple christian man, when i go to work everyday to provide for my family and my church and pastor, if i am kind to my passengers and do my job well, and do not rob my employer, is this a good christian work.

does it fall within the so-called golden rule, or serving my neighbor.
does it contribute to my salvation.

Yes, Rom. 13.

 

[rdde2]

I think your understanding of being 'Born Again' is an issue in your view of this subject. When we are born again we are changed from the first 'old' birth to the second 'new' birth a spiritual birth. We are new no longer old our whole nature changes who we are changes and that New Birth can not be corrupted. But the old birth is still around until it dies physically dies and the old mind the corrupt mind , and the desires of the corrupted flesh ect are still around. This old nature sins and fights the new spiritual self daily. But the old is no longer us it was us . so I think your issue is that you still think you are the old self and associate yourself in the first birth still . You are not truly set free in Christ yet with your view you are saved but still thinking you are of the old birth that can do nothing but sin and equate your christian life with the old life still. But you are truly changed and new but you do not see that yet. We are not the old sinful birth any more but we are responsible to kill its actions by Gods spirit through our new birth the new man. We are no longer a sinful nature but are charged by God as His sons to kill the old nature and its deeds to hate the things spotted by the flesh ect .. so we are not the old but are responsible to stop it and will be held accountable by man and God for what we allow the old flesh to do .

 

[Vaudeville]

James says ------"Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only"

Faith only says--- "Ye see how by works a man is NOT justified, but is justifed by faith only"

Faith only is in total, complete opposition to the bible.

heres some help for you today (again). from Thayers

dikaioó
justified

with the positive idea predominant, to judge, declare, pronounce, righteous and therefore acceptable, (God is said δικαιοῦν δίκαιον, 1 Kings 8:32): ἑαυτόν, Luke 16:15; ἐδικαίωσαν τόνΘεόν, declared God to be righteous, i. e. by receiving the baptism declared that it had been prescribed by God rightly, Luke 7:29; passive by God, Romans 2:13; ἐξ ἔργων ἐδικαιώθη, got his reputation for righteousness (namely, with his countrymen (but see Meyer (edited by Weiss) at the passage)) by works,Romans 4:2; ἐκ τῶν λόγων, by thy words, in contrast with καταδικάζεσθαι, namely, by God,Matthew 12:37.


Especially is it so used, in the technical phraseology of Paul, respecting God who judges and declares such men as put faith in Christ to be righteous and acceptable to him, and accordingly fit to receive the pardon of their sins and eternal life (see δικαιοσύνη, 1 c.): thus absolutely, δικαιοῦν τινα,Romans 3:26; Romans 4:5; Romans 8:30, 33 (namely, ἡμᾶς, opposed to ἐγκάλειν); with the addition ofἐκ (in consequence of) πίστεως, Romans 3:30; Galatians 3:8; of διά τῆς πίστεως, Romans 3:30; men are said δικαιοῦσθαι, δικαιωθῆναι, τῇ χάριτι τοῦ Θεοῦ, Titus 3:7; δωρεάν τῇ χάριτιτοῦ Θεοῦ, Romans 3:24 πίστει, Romans 3:28; ἐκ πίστεως, by means of faith, Romans 5:1; Galatians 2:16; Galatians 3:24; ἐν τῷ αἵματι τοῦ Χριστοῦ (as the meritorious cause of their acceptance, as the old theologians say, faith being the apprehending or subjective cause), Romans 5:9; ἐν τῷ ὀνόματι τοῦκυρίου Ἰησοῦ καί ἐν τῷ πνεύματι τοῦ Θεοῦ ἡμῶν, by confessing the name of the Lord (which implies faith in him, Romans 10:10, cf. 2 Corinthians 4:13), and by the Spirit of God (which has awakened faith in the soul), 1 Corinthians 6:11; ἐν Χριστῷ through Christ, Galatians 2:17; Acts 13:39; it is vehemently denied by Paul, that a man δικαιοῦται ἐξ ἔργων νόμου, Galatians 2:16 — with the additionἐνώπιον αὐτοῦ, i. e. of God, Romans 3:20, cf. Romans 3:28; Romans 4:2, (see δικαιοσύνην, 1 c. under the end)


— a statement which is affirmed by James in f (though he says simply ἐξ ἔργωνδικαιοῦται, significantly omitting νόμου); to the same purport Paul denies that a man δικαιοῦται ἐννόμῳ, in obeying the law, or by keeping it, Galatians 5:4; with the addition, παρά τῷ Θεῷ, in the sight of God, Galatians 3:11. Luke 18:14 teaches that a man δικαιοῦται by deep sorrow for his sins, which so humbles him that he hopes for salvation only from divine grace.


hope that helps.

 

[SeaBass]

Romans 10:9 that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Jude 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Acts 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
Luke 8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
Matthew 27:42 He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.

Luke 13:25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:
Luke 24:6 He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee,
John 2:22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.
Acts 17:3 opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.
Romans 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
1 Corinthians 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
1 Corinthians 15:14 and if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

Colossians 2:12 buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Luke 7:50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.
Luke 18:42 And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
1 Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
James 5:15 and the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Faith does the saving and produces the works that I take no account of, not telling the right hand what the left hand is doing for rewards

More salvic verses you left out:

Lk 13:3 - "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish".

Mt 10:32,33 "Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven".

Mk16:16 - "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

1 Pet 3:21 "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:"

Gal 3:27 "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ."

Rom 6:3-5 "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:"

Rom 10:10 "For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

1 Jn 1:7,9 "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

Heb 5:9 "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;"

Phil 2:12 "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."

Rom 6:16-18 "Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness."

Acts 10:35 "But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him."

James 2:24 "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."

 

[SeaBass]

SEE, you start off with your presuppositions BASED ON FALSEHOODS.

WE ARE NOT "FAITH ONLY" ADVOCATES.

WE ARE SALVATION IS BY GRACE ONLY ADVOCATES.

We do not believe that Born Again human spirit is dead until it produces good works.

We believe that the Born Again human spirit has Eternal Life, from the very instant the Holy Spirit brings it to that Eternally SAVED Life.

Therefore, the genuinely BORN AGAIN Christian is one that WILL produce good works, done purely out LOVE for our LORD.

Likewise the false Christian will never produce those kind of good works.

"Grace only" does not save anymore than "faith only" saves.