Salvation Not Possible Without Works

[VCO]

"Grace only" does not save anymore than "faith only" saves.

Guess WHO disagrees with you:

James 4:6 (NKJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But He gives more grace. Therefore He says: "God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble."

Proverbs 3:34 (NIV)
[SUP]34 [/SUP] He mocks proud mockers but gives grace to the humble.

Admit it, you are proud that you think you are earning part of your salvation, aren't you?
The night I was SAVED, I prayed while weeping, "I can't do it. If you want me to live like that YOU will have to come into my heart and do it in me." I still cannot do it of my own power. IT IS CHRIST IN ME DOING WHAT PLEASES THE FATHER.

John 1:16-17 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Indeed, we have all received grace after grace from His fullness,
[SUP]17 [/SUP] for the law was given through Moses, grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Grace is receiving what we DO NOT DESERVE AND HAVE NOT EARNED IN ANY WAY.

Acts 18:27 (ESV)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] And when he wished to cross to Achaia, the brothers encouraged him and wrote to the disciples to welcome him. When he arrived, he greatly helped those who through grace had believed,

Acts 13:43 (HCSB)
[SUP]43 [/SUP] After the synagogue had been dismissed, many of the Jews and devout proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who were speaking with them and persuading them to continue in the grace of God.

Acts 20:32 (HCSB)
[SUP]32 [/SUP] “And now I commit you to God and to the message of His grace, which is able to build you up and to give you an inheritance among all who are sanctified.

Philippians 1:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

Romans 5:15-18 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.

CONCLUSION: You can stop patting yourself on the back now.

I repeat it: "through one act of righteousness there resulted justification"

 

[Jabberjaw]

John 1:16-17 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Indeed, we have all received grace after grace from His fullness,
[SUP]17 [/SUP] for the law was given through Moses, grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Grace is receiving what we DO NOT DESERVE AND HAVE NOT EARNED IN ANY WAY.

Since we all have received grace, and you say we don't have to do anything, then since the Cross there has not been a man unsaved, and since the blood of the cross flowed both ways, there is not a man that's been born that is not saved right now...

If it wasn't so serious, it would actually be funny.

 

[konroh]

please give me the scriptures that say no matter what we do, we cannot be lost. Also, it is very clear by reading the last part of Hebrews 10, that he's talking about heaven and hell, not merely awards. Gal. 5:4, Jas. 5:19-20, I Tim. 4:1 among others show that a Christian can no doubt be lost.

Sorry to take so long to respond and I apologize for not reading thru 50 pages of posts but allow me to retort. At the end of Heb 10 it says "[TABLE="class: maintable3, width: 100%"]
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[TD]But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.

I would encourage one to not misunderstand these words, speaking to believers encouraging them to live by faith and not shrink back to destruction but preserve their soul! Can a Christian shrink back and encounter destruction in his life, identity, accomplishments, well-being? Yes, and he can also preserve his soul, keeping a tight rein on his life and guarding his soul towards life. This isn't referring to everlasting punishment, but a destruction that can occur in the present life.

Gal 5:4 "fallen from grace" refers to believers who were saved by grace and then added works, they didn't lose initial salvation, they were fallen from the true path towards sanctification

James 5:19-20 "save his soul from death" means just that, if a sinner continues to sin they could suffer physical death, God would allow them to die in their sin, this is not eternal torment but physical death, help your Christian brothers and sinners get out of sin, save their souls from death, Amen!

1 Tim. 4:1 "fall away from the faith" from the orthodox truth paying heed to doctrines of demons, again this is not loss of initial salvation, but loss of continuing in the path of truth.

In short, a Christian cannot lose initial salvation, but he can fall away from the truth, lose rewards, not be fully sanctified and even physically die in sin.





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[Cassian]

Since we all have received grace, and you say we don't have to do anything, then since the Cross there has not been a man unsaved, and since the blood of the cross flowed both ways, there is not a man that's been born that is not saved right now...

If it wasn't so serious, it would actually be funny.

Not only that, but he shows his ignorance regarding the only aspect of our salvation which is what Christ did which is grace alone. The text he took part of Rom 5;18 is Christ saving all men from death. It is this part of salvation by wihich all me were saved from death, so that God and man could be reunited by faith and saved through faith. The aspect that is under discussion is by faith and grace. not grace alone. God cannot save our souls alone, man cannot save his soul alone, it takes both which is why we are being saved through faith.

this one was not so much a mischaracterization of the scriptural teaching as ignorance of what Christ actually acomplished for man. It is the very resurrection that we celebrate in two days that gave life to all men. An eternal existance, overcoming the condemnation of death through Adam. I Cor 15:22.

 

[Cassian]

Sorry to take so long to respond and I apologize for not reading thru 50 pages of posts but allow me to retort. At the end of Heb 10 it says "[TABLE="class: maintable3, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]

[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.

I would encourage one to not misunderstand these words, speaking to believers encouraging them to live by faith and not shrink back to destruction but preserve their soul! Can a Christian shrink back and encounter destruction in his life, identity, accomplishments, well-being? Yes, and he can also preserve his soul, keeping a tight rein on his life and guarding his soul towards life. This isn't referring to everlasting punishment, but a destruction that can occur in the present life.

Gal 5:4 "fallen from grace" refers to believers who were saved by grace and then added works, they didn't lose initial salvation, they were fallen from the true path towards sanctification

James 5:19-20 "save his soul from death" means just that, if a sinner continues to sin they could suffer physical death, God would allow them to die in their sin, this is not eternal torment but physical death, help your Christian brothers and sinners get out of sin, save their souls from death, Amen!

1 Tim. 4:1 "fall away from the faith" from the orthodox truth paying heed to doctrines of demons, again this is not loss of initial salvation, but loss of continuing in the path of truth.

In short, a Christian cannot lose initial salvation, but he can fall away from the truth, lose rewards, not be fully sanctified and even physically die in sin.





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I am really amazed, Alligator at the machinations some go through to support a view that obviously has no support from scripture. This has been an education, I have been on boards off an on, but I have never seen so many reconfigurations of scripture trying to make a square peg fit in a round hole.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

The new birth is water baptism, something one obeys by submitting unto it. So savlation cannot be had without this obedience.

Seabass, this is incorrect.

Water baptism is in no way connected with a Christian's salvation.

The new birth is spiritual baptism. One gets the new birth when he is regenerated by the Holy Spirit and when he is placed into the Body of Christ.

Now I should mention though; that while water baptism is not connected with ones salvation today.

Water baptism was connected with a person's salvation during the ministry of John the Baptist and also the 3 and a half year ministry of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Why? Because water baptism was connected with the Gospel of the Kingdom. When John the Baptist was preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom to Israel, he also was baptizing the Jews who believed his message concerning the Messiah and His Kingdom.


And again; while water baptism is not needed for one's salvation today in the Church Age.

In the future tribulation period; Water baptism will once again be connected with salvation. Because in the time of Jacob's trouble, the 144,000 Jews will be preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom.

 

[VCO]

Since we all have received grace, and you say we don't have to do anything, then since the Cross there has not been a man unsaved, and since the blood of the cross flowed both ways, there is not a man that's been born that is not saved right now...

If it wasn't so serious, it would actually be funny.

Do you ever HEAR what I really say, or ONLY what your presuppositions want believe I said? I NEVER SAID "we don't have to do anything." I said as far as Salvation is concerned OUR LORD DID IT ALL, and Salvation was a totally accomplished done deal, the very moment we genuinely believed and received HIM as LORD, which means MASTER.

BUT APPARENTLY YOU STILL DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT "RECEIVING HIM AS LORD" REALLY MEANS. That means for the rest of your life, YOU are surrendering control of your life to HIM, to do with as HE PLEASES. YOU are becoming a willing BOND SLAVE, submitting to JESUS CHRIST as your MASTER, strictly because you LOVE HIM, and want to express your LOVE FOR HIM. HE IS OUR BRIDEGROOM, who has left to BUILD us a NEW DWELLING PLACE in HIS Father's House. HE most CERTAINLY will return for us HIS BRIDE, because we have received the bridal gift, insuring HIS return. THAT GIFT IS THE HOLY SPIRIT IN US. We as the BRIDE are to remain pure waiting for OUR BRIDEGROOM to come just outside our old dwelling place (earth) where HE will have the Archangel call us out of our old dwelling place (earth). We keep our purity by continually striving to obey, and the power to do so is provided by the Holy Spirit HIMSELF. Disobedience is not the new nature of the born again genuine Christian, however striving to obey continually is our new nature, because the HOLY SPIRIT has placed eternal life in our human spirits. AND what if we fail, we by that new born again nature, will immediately want to confess each new sin, and that to goes on for the rest of our lives, because we will continually LOVE HIM. Those who walk away NEVER TO RETURN TO HIM, validate that they NEVER WERE BORN AGAIN, and therefore NEVER REALLY HAD THAT INNER PERSONAL LOVE RELATIONSHIP WITH JESUS AS LORD.

If we stumble into sin, does it cost us anything? ABSOLUTELY, but Salvation is NOT one of the things you can LOSE. WHY? Because JESUS and the FATHER are BOTH Holding on to our Salvation as tight as they can. NOT BECAUSE OF ANYTHING WE DID, BUT BECAUSE OF WHAT JESUS HIMSELF DID ON THE CROSS.

What then can be lost because of sin?

SPIRITUAL MATURITY, yes it can be lost, and you can go all the way back spiritual infant, learning lessons all over again.

HEAVENLY REWARDS, and they do not include SALVATION, because that is part of the PRICE HE PAID FOR HIS BRIDE. What are Heavenly Rewards? The Bible is not that specific, but apparently they will be the most valuable things to us in HEAVEN.

POSITIONS in HEAVEN - Not sure what all of those positions might be, but reigning as Priests is one of them. Teaching the children born in the KINGDOM most likely will be another. Servants to the Priests, would most likely would be another. It does not say, but for the sake of this analogy, if our glorified bodies eat on a regular basis, somebody will be stuck on KP DUTY. THUS sin could cost you a Position in Heaven that you once had earned as a reward. I remind you ONLY good works done out of LOVE for JESUS will be rewarded.

PREFERENTIAL DWELLING PLACES - could be another possible reward, though I doubt it, because there is no favoritism with GOD. I heard a Baptist missionary give a sermon one time, where he said "I serve the Lord, because I want the biggest fanciest Mansion on the Street of Gold, I don't want to get stuck with a shack out back on a bend of the Crystal River. MY MOUTH FELL OPEN, I am sure. HE MISSED THE ENTIRE POINT OF DOING GOOD WORKS. Only those done because we LOVE our LORD, are of any value to GOD. I even remember thinking when I heard that. LORD, please let me have that Shack Out Back on the bend in the Crystal River, I just want to be there with YOU.

PERSONAL TIME WITH JESUS, is another possibly as a reward, but actually there is no mention of that specifically, but just speculating, I think that would be a possibility.

There could be a WHOLE realm of other possible rewards, but ONLY HE will decide who is worthy of them and who justly deserves KP Duty.

 

[VCO]

No man by works has ever pleased God, except Christ, for he walked by Faith (trust) and was l,ed bu Father in the power of the Holy Ghost. The same is for you and all today to do the same, and walk as Christ walked in dependence on Father.
You are showing dependence on self, and if:
Hebrews 7:11

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]11 [/SUP]If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

1 John 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked

How did Christ walk? Was it of and by himself or in total dependence on Father?
Who did he sent to lead us?
So who is to lead and do the works through us?

And possibly JOB.

Job 1:8 (ASV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] And Jehovah said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job? for there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and turneth away from evil.

 

[VCO]

This thread is still going? SeaBass was refuted multiple times already. By eternally-grateful, JGIG, and myself. Others too, if I remember correctly. Works-based salvation is what his doctrine is, and its false. Maintaining your salvation through good works, is not biblical. Jesus is the Author and Finisher of our faith. His question is a false dichotomy, and is in error from the output by using a false definition of a Christian, as well. It leaves no room for salvation for those who don't work, but we all know that it isn't about work, but rest. Rest in what or in who? Jesus Christ and His finished work on the cross. His death, burial, and resurrection.

Yes, we are saved unto good works, but those works are a fruit of salvation and not the root of salvation. One can be saved and not work, due to circumstance. But to then conclude there is an exception for those not able to work, is to say one should seek to be in such a situation as to assure his salvation. Which is false, because we already have eternal security in Christ.

It comes down to trusting in your own righteousness or Christ's righteousness, that is imputed to those that believe. There is a simplicity of the Gospel that men want to complicate. Abraham believed God, and he was declared righteous (Gen 15:6). It is as simple as belief. God gave us a reference point to believe on, and that is Christ, he gave us something to believe in and that is the finished work of Christ. Its simple, stop complicating it to make new converts to be in fear and condemnation when God wants them in rest and assurance.

Yes, but he and others like him are the grinding stone that keeps our swords sharp.

 

[BenFTW]

Very egotistical,

You have proven anything, He finished His work, now we need to do ours, you haven't shown one shred of scripture that has not been ripped out of its context to prove your position, you have not proven that Jesus will obey the Gospel for you...

I was thinking of how to reply to this post as it is bearing false witness, but I didn't want to return a negative comment in return as you gave me. I am referring to "very egotistical", to which I was going to reply, "Very judgmental." lol The words I put in bold are strong words, care to back them up with evidence or are you just speaking out of ignorance or just bearing false witness? Is your aim to be defamatory?

I will also add, it wasn't an egotistical reply, as I mentioned others who have refuted SeaBass every time he raised his questions. I asked, "This thread is still going?", because the same questions and points keep being brought up and its already been shown that the question itself is in error. I want to again ask you, the words I put in bold are strong words, and a strong accusation and so please back that up with evidence. Also, please provide evidence that I made the claim that "Jesus will obey the Gospel for you."

Rhetorical questions, I know because there isn't evidence. I leave the floor open to you, to show some, but I think those words were spoken in haste. You say, "He finished His work, now we need to do ours" which is completely false as far as salvation goes. You have no scripture to back that up, that says works maintain our salvation. I raised this point before, if works maintain salvation, then salvation isn't a free gift but a wage due. It is a debt paid, that God owes you, under your doctrine (which is not the Gospel).

 

[VCO]

Very egotistical,

You have proven anything, He finished His work, now we need to do ours, you haven't shown one shred of scripture that has not been ripped out of its context to prove your position, you have not proven that Jesus will obey the Gospel for you...

OH MY, so you can improve upon HIS WORK?

In other words, you think HIS WORK was less than PERFECT?

Deuteronomy 32:3-4 (ESV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For I will proclaim the name of the LORD; ascribe greatness to our God!
[SUP]4 [/SUP] “The Rock, his work is perfect, for all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness and without iniquity, just and upright is he.

Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

WHO IS DOING THE WORK IN YOU and will finish it? It certainly is not YOU.

1 Corinthians 6:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified (Past Tense) in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

Acts 13:39 (NIV)
[SUP]39 [/SUP] Through Him everyone who believes is justified (Past Tense) from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses.

Which of these two men, is most like YOU.

Luke 18:10-14 (NIV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] "Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men--robbers, evildoers, adulterers--or even like this tax collector.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.'
[SUP]13 [/SUP] "But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.'
[SUP]14 [/SUP] "I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified (Past Tense) before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

 

[Apostol2013]

Seabass, this is incorrect.

Water baptism is in no way connected with a Christian's salvation.

The new birth is spiritual baptism. One gets the new birth when he is regenerated by the Holy Spirit and when he is placed into the Body of Christ.

Now I should mention though; that while water baptism is not connected with ones salvation today.

Water baptism was connected with a person's salvation during the ministry of John the Baptist and also the 3 and a half year ministry of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Why? Because water baptism was connected with the Gospel of the Kingdom. When John the Baptist was preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom to Israel, he also was baptizing the Jews who believed his message concerning the Messiah and His Kingdom.


And again; while water baptism is not needed for one's salvation today in the Church Age.

In the future tribulation period; Water baptism will once again be connected with salvation. Because in the time of Jacob's trouble, the 144,000 Jews will be preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom.

If water baptism is not necesary why did peter say God forbid water then commenced to baptize corneleous whole house even jesus commisioned it look at chapter 19 of acts these fellows did not know the baptism of jesus or of the Holy Ghost the apostles deemed it necesary obviously it was necesary to salvation as it is part of the faith you must study the faith of the apostles and nobody tell me i am wrong as i know what i speak of is truth best preppare as the face of the entire christianship is getting a makeover much needed, jist before destruction there is a huge blessing coming

 

[Apostol2013]

To the finished works He did was the cross , this was to provide a way to your redemption but now that you have confessed the faith in your heart it is time to put to rest your old life , how you think how you view things How you behave and do things and take the new life wich He has given you and through the gift of the Holy Ghost using the Holy scriptures as a guide to sanctification denying all self as it is necesary that you die that He may live for you through you clean in all aspect that one day you may be perfect as He is for His pleasure , that it shows that it was done out of love and do not say im wrong for exhorting you to live a pleasing life to Our Lord God as this is a good thing to do .

 

[LT]

To the finished works He did was the cross , this was to provide a way to your redemption but now that you have confessed the faith in your heart it is time to put to rest your old life , how you think how you view things How you behave and do things and take the new life wich He has given you and through the gift of the Holy Ghost using the Holy scriptures as a guide to sanctification denying all self as it is necesary that you die that He may live for you through you clean in all aspect that one day you may be perfect as He is for His pleasure , that it shows that it was done out of love and do not say im wrong for exhorting you to live a pleasing life to Our Lord God as this is a good thing to do .

i agree.
we hold different view, but the outcome is the same.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

If water baptism is not necesary why did God forbid water then d to baptize corneleous whole house even jesus commisioned it look at chapter 19 of acts these fellows did not know the baptism of jesus or of the Holy Ghost the apostles deemed it necesary obviously it was necesary to salvation as it is part of the faith you must study the faith of the apostles and nobody tell me i am wrong as i know what i speak of is truth best preppare as the face of the entire christianship is getting a makeover much needed, jist before destruction there is a huge blessing coming

The water Baptism which Cornelius was given was simply to follow his conversion.

In other words, the Holy Ghost came upon Cornelius as Peter was speaking the words to them. Which means that Cornelius's conversion (Acts 10:44) preceeded his water baptism (Acts 10:48).

 

[Jabberjaw]

Do you ever HEAR what I really say, or ONLY what your presuppositions want believe I said? I NEVER SAID "we don't have to do anything." I said as far as Salvation is concerned OUR LORD DID IT ALL, and Salvation was a totally accomplished done deal, the very moment we genuinely believed and received HIM as LORD, which means MASTER.

Here enough is said, you think when it comes to "salvation" that "our Lord did it all", if this was so, then we would have no works to do, everyone is saved from the time our Lord gave Him self on the cross, every man forward and backward of the cross is "saved".

Have you actually listened to what you have said? or what someone has told you? because this idea is not in the bible.

The people believed when they asked Peter earlier :

Acts 2:37 (KJV) Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

See that "do?", Peter did not say "Nothing, our Lord did it for you, just be good boys and girls from now on".

NO, he told them what they MUST DO : "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins"

And what does Peter tell them then? :

Acts 2:40 (KJV) And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

"Save yourselves" in other words "be baptized and wash away those sins" and then those that received the words of Peter were SAVED (baptized) :

Acts 2:41 (KJV) Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.


By Grace Christ died on the cross for ALL men, BUT YOU MUST OBEY HIM to "SAVE YOURSELVES", HE DID HIS PART, WE DO OURS, THAT IS WHAT MAKES A COVENANT (AGREEMENT) THAT RECONCILES US TO GOD.

You need to throw away your man made manuals, creed, catechism's or confessions of faith, and read your bible.

 

[Jabberjaw]

I was thinking of how to reply to this post as it is bearing false witness, but I didn't want to return a negative comment in return as you gave me. I am referring to "very egotistical", to which I was going to reply, "Very judgmental." lol The words I put in bold are strong words, care to back them up with evidence or are you just speaking out of ignorance or just bearing false witness? Is your aim to be defamatory?

My aim was to point out your arrogance and, well... ego, your claim here:

This thread is still going? SeaBass was refuted multiple times already. By eternally-grateful, JGIG, and myself. Others too, if I remember correctly. Works-based salvation is what his doctrine is, and its false.

You and others have done nothing but go in circles, your refutation is fruitless... then you have the arrogance to say you and others refuted this already as if we should take your word for it and its done already, you have shown unbiblical ideas and nothing more.

I will also add, it wasn't an egotistical reply, as I mentioned others who have refuted SeaBass every time he raised his questions. I asked, "This thread is still going?", because the same questions and points keep being brought up and its already been shown that the question itself is in error.

you think this thread should be over because you think YOU have cleared everyone's error for them, that my friend is egotistical, if you think you have said your piece and have nothing more to add, don't come back asking "Is this thread still going?", just go to another thread.

Rhetorical questions, I know because there isn't evidence. I leave the floor open to you, to show some, but I think those words were spoken in haste. You say, "He finished His work, now we need to do ours" which is completely false as far as salvation goes. You have no scripture to back that up, that says works maintain our salvation. I raised this point before, if works maintain salvation, then salvation isn't a free gift but a wage due. It is a debt paid, that God owes you, under your doctrine (which is not the Gospel).

See post 2196, Jesus will not obey the Gospel for you, and you cannot show one shred of scripture that says YOU have nothing to do to be saved, throwing some scripture ripped out of context then leaving and coming back later thinking this should be settled because you said so, well let see, what should we call that?

 

[Jabberjaw]

OH MY, so you can improve upon HIS WORK?

In other words, you think HIS WORK was less than PERFECT?

See post 2196

 

[VCO]

If water baptism is not necesary why did peter say God forbid water then commenced to baptize corneleous whole house even jesus commisioned it look at chapter 19 of acts these fellows did not know the baptism of jesus or of the Holy Ghost the apostles deemed it necesary obviously it was necesary to salvation as it is part of the faith you must study the faith of the apostles and nobody tell me i am wrong as i know what i speak of is truth best preppare as the face of the entire christianship is getting a makeover much needed, jist before destruction there is a huge blessing coming

WOW, you do not understand spiritual baptism then. IT IS NOT Christian Water Baptism that SAVES, but rather it is THE REALITY of Spiritual Baptism into the Body of CHRIST, that SAVES. At the very moment we first believed, the Holy Spirit Baptizes (Immerses) us into the spiritual Body of Christ, placing ETERNAL LIFE in our human spirits (born again). THAT IS WHEN WE WERE SAVED.

Is Christian Water Baptism necessary for SALVATION? NO, BUT IT STILL IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY. It is NOT Part of Salvation but rather it is the First step in our Christian Walk of Obedience. And a truly born again Christians will WANT TO WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO OUR LORD,

1 Corinthians 12:12-13 (HCSB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] For as the body is one and has many parts, and all the parts of that body, though many, are one body—so also is Christ.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body (that is not Christian Water Baptism) —whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

Colossians 2:6 (NIV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord (that is Salvation), continue to live in him, (Walk in obedience)


1 John 2:5-6 (NKJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. (not Salvation is perfected but rather the LOVE OF GOD is perfected in him.) By this we know that we are in Him.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked. (Christian Water Baptism is part of that WALK of Obedience because we LOVE HIM.)

John 14:15 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

 

[VCO]

Here enough is said, you think when it comes to "salvation" that "our Lord did it all", if this was so, then we would have no works to do, everyone is saved from the time our Lord gave Him self on the cross, every man forward and backward of the cross is "saved". . .

THERE YOU GO AGAIN TOTALLY LEAVING LOVE OUT OF THE EQUATION. Our works are NECESSARY to validate OUR LOVE FOR HIM, not our need for Salvation.

John 14:15 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.