Does God control our mistakes?

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R

Raine

Guest
#21
#21
God is present in all time. He is present in the past, present and future, simultaneously. Therefore, he is all knowing, but that does not mean that he necessarily control our mistakes.

I always refer to the story of David with these kind of questions. Because of King David's poor choices there were many repercussions. God forgave him, and he repented, but his actions had many consequences. It's one of the lessons we have to learn the hard way... that its not all about me, me, me, and that yes, our actions truly affect those around us. It also teaches us about love others and not ourselves.
 
GreatScott

GreatScott

Banned
#23
Mar 18, 2014
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#23
Raine said:
God is present in all time. He is present in the past, present and future, simultaneously. Therefore, he is all knowing, but that does not mean that he necessarily control our mistakes.

I always refer to the story of David with these kind of questions. Because of King David's poor choices there were many repercussions. God forgave him, and he repented, but his actions had many consequences. It's one of the lessons we have to learn the hard way... that its not all about me, me, me, and that yes, our actions truly affect those around us. It also teaches us about love others and not ourselves.
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Thank you for the reply. So you believe he is all knowing but does not take his hand to alter things while they are occurring?
 
GreatScott

GreatScott

Banned
#24
Mar 18, 2014
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#24
IloveyouGod said:
Yes, you are right. God doesn't punish us. I'm not saying He does. I'm addressing those who thinks that we don't have free will. Maybe I wasn't clear the way I did put that line you've bolded. But in my own explanation to the OP I said chasten.
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I was under the understanding that he does punish us. Wouldn't punish be synonymous with discipline? It says he disciplines us like a father would discipline a child in Hebrews 12:6.
 
GreatScott

GreatScott

Banned
#25
Mar 18, 2014
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#25
seoulsearch said:
Hi Scott :).

I wanted to clarify your question: does God control our mistakes in the sense of "making us" decide what we do? No, the Bible says God does not tempt anyone to sin. (James 1:13--"Let no man say when he is tempted, 'I am being tempted by God', for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He tempt any man.'") Does God test our hearts and use our decisions and their outcomes toward His own purpose? Absolutely.

Laban repeatedly made the choice to try to cheat Jacob out of his wages ("Here, you can have all the speckled, spotted, and blemished lambs.") It looked like a sure disaster for Jacob, but God had other plans. His will was to bless Jacob, so even though Laban made the conscious decision to repeatedly lie and cheat, guess what happened? Laban's flocks began to produce uncanny numbers of speckled, spotted, and blemished lambs, and Jacob became extremely wealthy. Laban made the choice--God neither coerced nor forced him to act dishonorably, but God did control the outcome.

In one of my college classes, we were assigned a lab rat and an experimental (Skinner) box. Our objective was to shape various behaviors the rats would make (they were water-deprived for 24 hours and we could reinforce, or reward, their behaviors with a dipper that gave the rat a drink of water.)

During my sessions with my rat, I noticed that for whatever reason, he would often turn in a circle. I have no idea why--he just did so "naturally"--and through many sessions, I was able to shape up that behavior by giving him water every time he turned in a circle.

For our final project, we had to demonstrate that we could "get" our rats to do a series about 5 behaviors before they would get a drink of water. There was a list of both required behaviors that we "had" to show in our experiment, but there was also the option of including behaviors that weren't on that list.

This was many years ago so I can't remember everything I was able to "train" my rat to do, but when it was my turn to show my project, my rat would do something like this: touch a certain marked spot inside the box, pull a chain, turn in a circle, wait for a light to come on, press a lever, and then receive a drink of water. All the other behaviors were "required" according to the list, but turning in a circle was not, and everyone asked me how I had gotten him to turn in circles.

The truth is, I have no idea why he originally turned in circles. Did I control his behavior or choice to turn in a circle? No. But did I take that behavior and use it for the purpose of enhancing my final project? Absolutely.

I know this example can't be compared to an Almighty God, but I believe that God knows what choices we will make long before we ever make them, and because He knows that, He is absolutely able to use what He already knows about our decisions for His own purposes. (Romans 8:28--"We know that in all things God works for the good of those who love Him, who have been called according to His purpose.")
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Thanks for the reply. To clarify, I wasn't wanting to go in the direction of whether he tempts us to sin or not. I am moving more in the direction of mistakes as in wrong choices that may not be sinful, or bad choices they were made due to iniquities or transgressions but not necessarily sin. For example: You are riding in the car with your mother and she begins to have chest pains. You turn your emergency lights on and race to the hospital to make sure she gets help before you find its something serious. On the way to the hospital, you get in a wreck and injure someone else. It may have been a bad choice but a choice you made in a split decision. No one necessarily sinned. So my question pertains to whether God is actively involved in these situations while they are occurring and altering them with his hand.
 
GreatScott

GreatScott

Banned
#26
Mar 18, 2014
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#26
Spokenpassage said:
Do you know what divine providence is? It means God is completely sovereign, that He is in complete control of everything. This includes the whole universe (Psalm 103:19), the physical world (Matthew 5:45), the affairs of nations (Psalm 66:7), human birth and destiny (Galatians 1:15), human successes and failures (Luke 1:52), and the protection of His people (Psalm 4:8).

This means there is no such thing as 'chance' and 'fate'. God has a divine will that is in set motion, we are in it, even our decisions.

There is no free will, a lot churches teach that there is but the bible specifically says we are either slaves to sin or slaves to God (Christ).

Wait but don't we have choices? Are we robots?

Answer: No, we aren't robots, this is not what it is teaching, rather God made us with the responsibility as free moral agents (not quite the same as free will). This doctrine in the bible teaches that God's will and plan in this existence cannot and will not be thwarted by man's decisions, as also the rest of creation and sin and evil.

We have the ability to disobey and to obey God. We still make choices. Free will is not the same thing just to let you know.

Judas in an example, even though by his own decisions he chose to betray Jesus, but this was ordained to happen so that Jesus would be crucified for our sins.

I do not condemn anyone who believes different, this is a perspective you can study on. It's very awesome! It helps us understand God's sovereignty more.
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I am not quite there yet, but I am witnessing more of God's sovereignty in my own life more and more lately. If the doctrine you are proposing is true, it would definitely give me more hope than less. Thanks for the reply.
 
I

IloveyouGod

Guest
#27
#27
Not punish. Chasten. Chasten is the synonym of discipline. Chasten means corrects. Chasten has more love and kindness into it. As suppose to punish. Punish has harm into it. If you steal you will be punished by the law. If you kill you will be punished by the law. The bible used the word Chasten not punish. :)


GreatScott said:
I was under the understanding that he does punish us. Wouldn't punish be synonymous with discipline? It says he disciplines us like a father would discipline a child in Hebrews 12:6.
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S

Spokenpassage

Guest
#28
#28
GreatScott said:
I am not quite there yet, but I am witnessing more of God's sovereignty in my own life more and more lately. If the doctrine you are proposing is true, it would definitely give me more hope than less. Thanks for the reply.
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Your welcome! It's a good study, the more you read the bible the more you see it. If I were to share every verse concerning God's sovereignty, I would have to hand you the bible lol! :)
 
I

IloveyouGod

Guest
#29
#29
The answer to your specific point here is Yes, God does guide us even during the sin and it's up to us to listen.

I did write an article about this, not on CC though. In my article I gave this analogy saying that God is our GPS. We have control over the steering wheel. My analogy says this: "Imagine you get into your car and you enter the address of Heaven and you start driving. Your GPS (God) will show you the way to heaven. However, you might still derail and take different routs. Your GPS (God) will keep on recalculating over and over again to put you back on the right route to Heaven. BUT, if one time you did derail and you go on the opposite traffic and you got yourself killed in an accident. Your GPS (God) was ready to recalculate to put you on the right route again. But too bad. It's too late. You're dead." Hope you liked my analogy and I hope I answered your question. Sorry for my misunderstanding from the beginning. :)


GreatScott said:
Thank you for the reply. I understand you believe he 'works' with the mistakes. But I wanted to focus specifically on whether or not he literally has a guiding hand in the mistake while it is occurring. I think control would be a valid word for that.
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GreatScott

GreatScott

Banned
#30
Mar 18, 2014
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#30
IloveyouGod said:
Not punish. Chasten. Chasten is the synonym of discipline. Chasten means corrects. Chasten has more love and kindness into it. As suppose to punish. Punish has harm into it. If you steal you will be punished by the law. If you kill you will be punished by the law. The bible used the word Chasten not punish. :)
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Weellll, the corrections I have received have been very painful. They have made for the better but I don't believe soft chastening changes you. The 'chastening' must be harsh otherwise there is no change.
 
GreatScott

GreatScott

Banned
#31
Mar 18, 2014
38
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#31
IloveyouGod said:
The answer to your specific point here is Yes, God does guide us even during the sin and it's up to us to listen.

I did write an article about this, not on CC though. In my article I gave this analogy saying that God is our GPS. We have control over the steering wheel. My analogy says this: "Imagine you get into your car and you enter the address of Heaven and you start driving. Your GPS (God) will show you the way to heaven. However, you might still derail and take different routs. Your GPS (God) will keep on recalculating over and over again to put you back on the right route to Heaven. BUT, if one time you did derail and you go on the opposite traffic and you got yourself killed in an accident. Your GPS (God) was ready to recalculate to put you on the right route again. But too bad. It's too late. You're dead." Hope you liked my analogy and I hope I answered your question. Sorry for my misunderstanding from the beginning. :)
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I like that analogy, thanks. So that would mean that God does not use his hand to alter the actions. He lets us do them alone without interjecting at all. So we are ultimately in control.
 
I

IloveyouGod

Guest
#32
#32
GreatScott there's consequences for each action whether it's positive or negative. As mature people we are expected to accept the results and consequences of our actions whether we deserve it or not because sometimes there are actions that we have to deal with its results and consequences simply because we are somehow involved in the matter one way or the other. So whatever you have been through was the result or consequence of what you did. God allows it to happen to chasten you. So the results or consequences of our actions will be soft or harsh depending on what WE did but it will always be called chastening. :)


GreatScott said:
Weellll, the corrections I have received have been very painful. They have made for the better but I don't believe soft chastening changes you. The 'chastening' must be harsh otherwise there is no change.
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I

IloveyouGod

Guest
#33
#33
Yes, God does not use his hand to alter the action. We have freedom of action, remember? :)
God who is Love works with our actions whether they are bad or good to our best. But we still have to deal with the consequences of our own actions as mature people like I said. :)


GreatScott said:
I like that analogy, thanks. So that would mean that God does not use his hand to alter the actions. He lets us do them alone without interjecting at all. So we are ultimately in control.
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B

BananaPie

Guest
#34
#34
Well, God is holy and Almighty. By definition of "Almighty," God is unable to make mistakes, and by definition of "Holy," God is unable to exist in the presence of evil.

Humans, on the other hand, are evil and inclined to make mistakes; therefore, all mistakes are of human nature, which God is very capable to control, but doesn't.

A parallel example would be: if you had five billion dollars ($5,000,000,000,000.oo), would you really be richer with $100 more in your pocket? ($5,000,000,000,100.oo)

Would you really be poor if you donated half of your estate? ($2,500,000,000,000.oo)

Now, image how incalculable is the wealth of God, who owns and created the entire Universe... The Lord would most certainly not be keen in controlling human mistakes (Controlling $100 would not make a billionaire any richer).

Furthermore, God giving you half His wealth, would still not deplete God's awesomeness, and yes, you'd be extremely blessed with half of God's wealth, in spite of human mistakes. :)

Rather than dwelling upon our shortcomings, may the Lord Jesus continually be your blessing, your strength and your wealth that you may dwell in the House of God. :)
 
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GreatScott

GreatScott

Banned
#35
Mar 18, 2014
38
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0
#35
Thank you everyone for your replies. This was my first post, and it means alot to me that there are so many people willing to give such detailed heartfelt, well-thought out feedback. This has helped me tremendously as I have grown more toward a belief in the sovereignty of God. I realize that as much as I think I am in control and subconsciously want to cling to my belief that I am the one who controls my own destiny, I realize I am not. God is in control. My conclusion from your replies is this:

We can make choices along the way, but no matter what choices we make, we cannot alter what God has ordained to happen in our lives. He does control things and even control things that happen to us. I believe it's deeper than just consequences of our actions. I believe God has a hand in everything. I believe God is in the driver's seat, and that I am just a passenger. And if God's destination is to a certain place, then I can take whatever route I think I am taking, but there is nothing I can do about the fact that we are going to arrive at that destination.

Thanks everyone. Love you and God Bless.
 
J

ji

Guest
#36
#36
GreatScott said:
I have come to believe that God is ultimately in control of my life in a very detailed and intimate way. However, I also understand that I have free will and that I am responsible for my decisions. This idea, along with many other things that have a balance of which there is no black and white answer, I would like to gain more knowledge on. I have made many mistakes in my life which have caused me a great deal of trouble. Some of them have seemingly revealed themselves to have some sort of positive effect, and some of them seem to only bring more heartache and trouble, continually. My question is very specific: Does God control these mistakes and their outcomes despite my free will? I will cite one verse that comes to mind just as a starting point for discussion. Proverbs 16:9 says, "The mind of man plans his way, but the Lord directs his steps."
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God doesn't control our mistakes,but He fits us back together from the scattered pieces with Love and Care(which is not of this world) which makes us blind to Follow Him no matter what for the rest of our life...
we make lesser and lesser mistakes in the process.

God Bless.
:)
 
J

ji

Guest
#37
#37
GreatScott said:
Weellll, the corrections I have received have been very painful. They have made for the better but I don't believe soft chastening changes you. The 'chastening' must be harsh otherwise there is no change.
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That's True.

2 Samuel 7:14 KJV

"I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee."
 
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