Temptation - "Run Forest Run"

[TashMeyer76]

Lets start at the top - Temptation of any kind is NOT from or By God. It comes from our Sinful desires, the flesh. James 1:13-15 "Let no one say, when he is tempted 'I am tempted by God' because God cannot be tempted by evil, and nor does He Himself tempt anyone. But every man is tempted when he is drawn away of his own lust and enticed." Further he says "When Lust has been conceived, it brings forth sin, sin when it is finished brings forth death"

So - the fact is that we cannot be tempted by God - now it becomes tricky. In Matthew 6:24 it says "No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and the love the other..." or visa versa "You cannot serve God and mammon"

The word mammon meaning "Riches, or wealth" the Word Mammon is not Greek nor Hebrew but its an Aramiac word, this word was not found in the OT but were used 5 times in the new testament, and scholars perceive this as more of a 'slang' word Peter liked to use. If you look at the context of the scripture:

The word Serve - in this context does not mean "giving" but "being enslaved" and the word mammon, in the context of day and time, and the value placed on money, property, tax collecting, and material things that depicts the prosperous status of a house, is more interpreted into "Serving a Master" being Enslaved to things like gluttony, prosperity, substance abuse but for the purpose of this teaching "Sexual Sin"

A sexual sin or fleshly temptation of this sort, is one of the most difficult sins or habits to overcome. Ever asked why? Because this is the one place Satan would fight to destroy, The Temple of the Holy Spirit, our body. Sexual perverseness, immorality as a sin committed within your body, unlike other sins that occur outside of the body.

So what does the bible say about this, what should you do?

1 Cor 6:18 "FLEE" RUN FOREST RUN! Of all the sins - this is the one where he instructs you to Flee away from it, because temptation of this nature is such a powerful thing due to the fact that Satan's primary goal is to Pervert the Temple of The Holy Spirit, because if he can get that right, he can get us to sin against the Spirit of God.

A perfect example here is of Joseph in Genisis 39:6-20 where his master's wife took notice of Joseph and said "Come to bed with me" but he refused. Joseph could say no.

It can be done - RUN FOREST RUN!!!

 

[doseofreality]

Lets start at the top - Temptation of any kind is NOT from or By God. It comes from our Sinful desires, the flesh. James 1:13-15 "Let no one say, when he is tempted 'I am tempted by God' because God cannot be tempted by evil, and nor does He Himself tempt anyone. But every man is tempted when he is drawn away of his own lust and enticed." Further he says "When Lust has been conceived, it brings forth sin, sin when it is finished brings forth death"

Is God not sovereign, omnipotent, omniscient, perfect, etc ??

Yet somehow He is not responsible for the bad things?

Is not the man who hires the hitman still ultimately responsible for the murder?

So God does not directly tempt us, but satan does ... who made satan? who allows satan to tempt us?
we are tempted by our sinful flesh.... who made us with a sinful nature? who allowed sin to enter the world?

You may pass the blame if you wish BUT then God is not in ultimate control.
which is it?, God cannot be totally in control and without blame at same time.

 

[Spokenpassage]

Is God not sovereign, omnipotent, omniscient, perfect, etc ??

Yet somehow He is not responsible for the bad things?

Is not the man who hires the hitman still ultimately responsible for the murder?

So God does not directly tempt us, but satan does ... who made satan? who allows satan to tempt us?
we are tempted by our sinful flesh.... who made us with a sinful nature? who allowed sin to enter the world?

You may pass the blame if you wish BUT then God is not in ultimate control.
which is it?, God cannot be totally in control and without blame at same time.

Yes He can be completely sovereign while allowing evil in the world, because not only does God reserve judgement for those who practice evil, but that they will not get away with it.

Why is it that you try to find a way to blame God, instead of letting the responsibility go to those ones who made those choices?

 

[doseofreality]

Yes He can be completely sovereign while allowing evil in the world, because not only does God reserve judgement for those who practice evil, but that they will not get away with it.

Why is it that you try to find a way to blame God, instead of letting the responsibility go to those ones who made those choices?

Not as much as blaming God, its being consistent with the definition of God.

we are not in disagreement i don't think, its a matter of perception.

People can still be responsible for their actions. But the caveat is that a completely sovereign God is ultimately the cause for why the person had to choose the action they did.

You even say "He can be completely sovereign while allowing evil in the world" yet deny that God is cause of evil.
They are the same thing.

 

[newbirth]

Is God not sovereign, omnipotent, omniscient, perfect, etc ??

Yet somehow He is not responsible for the bad things?

Is not the man who hires the hitman still ultimately responsible for the murder?

So God does not directly tempt us, but satan does ... who made satan? who allows satan to tempt us?
we are tempted by our sinful flesh.... who made us with a sinful nature? who allowed sin to enter the world?

You may pass the blame if you wish BUT then God is not in ultimate control.
which is it?, God cannot be totally in control and without blame at same time.

My friend who are you to question God ? I will let you know this, God is supreme and above all and all is subject to him to do as much as he allows. God tempts no man, God did not make you with a sinful nature, Man chose to disobey God you inherited that from Adam. Satan chose to disobey God. Even as God is in control he gives you control of your life to choose, don't blame him when you make bad choices.

 

[TashMeyer76]

Sin came into this world through man. Free will, and disobedience. God said Don't, and man decides not to listen. In no way did God tempt anyone.

If that is written in the sovereign word of God, I do not question that truth. I accept it and live by it.

 

[doseofreality]

My friend who are you to question God ? I will let you know this, God is supreme and above all and all is subject to him to do as much as he allows. God tempts no man, God did not make you with a sinful nature, Man chose to disobey God you inherited that from Adam. Satan chose to disobey God. Even as God is in control he gives you control of your life to choose, don't blame him when you make bad choices.

Well I am a human being just like Job, so yes I think I can question God if I like. Of course I don't believe God exists so I am really questioning the consistency of the definition of God.

You cant define God in one way yet proclaim something about God that logically indirectly contradicts your definition.

Now you state that God did not make us with a sinful nature, well then either God allowed us to have a sin nature or we have a sin nature apart from His will in which then he is not in total control.

If God allowed it then it is His will for it to be, thus He is responsible for it.
If we have a sin nature because of Adams choice to disobey, then Adams free will is separate from Gods will, thus God is not in ultimate control.

Again I will state again, I have no problem with either case as long as you are consistent with picking one or the other.

 

[Spokenpassage]

Not as much as blaming God, its being consistent with the definition of God.

we are not in disagreement i don't think, its a matter of perception.

People can still be responsible for their actions. But the caveat is that a completely sovereign God is ultimately the cause for why the person had to choose the action they did.

You even say "He can be completely sovereign while allowing evil in the world" yet deny that God is cause of evil.
They are the same thing.

I don't think you get it dose. Just because God allows sin in the world, does not violate His sovereignty. Matter of fact, if He had no ability to allow or disallow of anything then He wouldn't be sovereign. But, by His majestic sovereignty He allows it but at the same time will reserve the punishment due to it in the end. He does not condone sin.

Evil will have a final breath, then it will be gone. Judgement will have it's part in the wickedness in the world.

Think about us in Christ, God must punish us for our sins, so by satisfying God's perfect justice, Christ bore His wrath against us.

If God didn't allow a person to live in their choice of action, all of mankind would have been long extinct for their wickedness. We see this similar to Noah' time, they lived in wickedness and sin, but in the end there was a coming judgement that no one expected. At least there was a remnant, Noah's family, otherwise God had every right to obliterate man's existence.

 

[doseofreality]

hmm ok I will concede, maybe this comes down to semantics concerning definition of God's sovereignty.

 

[TashMeyer76]

It is my will that my children obey me, so one day while I'm at work, I get a call from the neighbor. There's smoke bellowing out the kitchen window. I rush home to find all 3 kids sitting outside with pitch black faces and the neighbor standing beside them with a fire extinguisher. They decided to make "Treasure maps" in order to have those look authentic they had to bake the edges in the oven. Guess what happened. The maps caught alight.

My instruction to them have always been "Do not play with fire, its dangerous" They went against that. Because they chose to do that, they were punished accordingly. It was not my fault they decided that they could do this, it was by their own choices.

Looking at your perception of God, Doseofreality, I'd say if you ever had children you would most likely be the one to take the blame,since you made them, you will let guilt fall on you?

You are right, for those who do not believe in God, it does come down to semantics. For those who believe in God, it comes down to Hope and Faith, and a Trust in a Sovereign God.

Bless you Dose

 

[doseofreality]

It is my will that my children obey me, so one day while I'm at work, I get a call from the neighbor. There's smoke bellowing out the kitchen window. I rush home to find all 3 kids sitting outside with pitch black faces and the neighbor standing beside them with a fire extinguisher. They decided to make "Treasure maps" in order to have those look authentic they had to bake the edges in the oven. Guess what happened. The maps caught alight.

My instruction to them have always been "Do not play with fire, its dangerous" They went against that. Because they chose to do that, they were punished accordingly. It was not my fault they decided that they could do this, it was by their own choices.

Looking at your perception of God, Doseofreality, I'd say if you ever had children you would most likely be the one to take the blame,since you made them, you will let guilt fall on you?

You are right, for those who do not believe in God, it does come down to semantics. For those who believe in God, it comes down to Hope and Faith, and a Trust in a Sovereign God.

Bless you Dose

I thank you.
I will only mention that parents do not have control over their kids at all times, children are independent agents separate from their parents. Using this analogy then, are you saying that God is not in total control of His creation?
That is how i understand divine sovereignty to mean.

P.S. I apologize for taking your thread down this rabbit hole haha

 

[RickyZ]

The problem is with the idea that God is in charge here. He's not. He handed authority over to us, we hand(ed) our authority over to a deceiver. Yes, He could just take it all back, but His intention was for us, not Him to be the authority. That's why He had to come to us as a Man, to place authority back into the hands of a man.

Which all speaks to Tash's original words about 'service' meaning being in servitude to a master. With God not in charge, we still have the authority to submit to whatever we choose. "Choose ye whom you will serve this day". Now, many of us choose to put God back in charge by doing service in what He asks of us, but we have the authority to not serve so. And that is what creates evil. God didn't command it into being. It's just the result of our choosing not to serve Him.

 

[TashMeyer76]

P.S. I apologize for taking your thread down this rabbit hole haha

This is not the only thread that's been down the rabbit hole, so no offense taken at all. God gave us free will, without free will He could have just stuck to making Angels and letting us serve him - I mean if that was the case, How would God have been Glorified in the end?

It is about creation Glorifying God, about our choice to do what is right so that He may be Glorified.

How I understand Divine Sovereignty or any Sovereign power for that matter is that The one in charge gets to call the shots. The Creator gets to say Yay or Nay. He shows mercy to whom He wishes to show mercy. That is being Sovereign.

If there was no sin that needed reprimand, or illness that needed divine healing, or brokenness that needed full repair - what Glory would there be seen? None. We would be a bunch of living organisms co-existing with no vision, no calling, and no destiny.

Napoleon Hill hit the nail right on : "Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle"

Why would we need Strength nor Growth if there was no hardship to withstand, correct?


If God deems it necessary that suffering must occur for whatever His greater plan then so be it, these sufferings may be for:

a. Warnings
b. To make a point.
c. To discipline and instruct
d. To fulfill the greater plan of whom we only have a glimpse of.

Sovereignty means He is in full Control and he chooses not to intervene, because of a plan greater than the one we can formulate in our own minds, who am I to question the Creator's intentions?

He does however not put sin on our paths to tempt us, sin came to this world because God allowed man Free will. He gave instruction, and command, and we disobeyed.

 

[Habbakuk]

Hi Dose


Your questions on the sovereignty of God surely does have relevance, and I don't think it is purely down to semantics. Even in Christian circles, it seems that confusion abounds. When a child dies, for instance, well-meaning friend or family members will attempt to use consoling statements like "Jesus took her to shine as the brightest star in his crown", or "Jesus needed her/him more in heaven that what we need him/her on earth". Really? Does God need any human being to make heaven work better? The answer is no. Did he have the power to prevent someone's death? For sure. The $ 64 000 question therefore is therefore why he does not prevent evil, if it is in his power to do so. Well, is that realistic? Is God - even those of us who believe in him - our personal Superman, who is supposed to just respond miraculously to our urgent requests? Yes and No, but the decision whether our requests will be granted depends on God, not us. Another biblical principle adds another dimension - "What you sow, you will reap". If we sow death and destruction, then that is what we are likely to reap in life. If we drive at 150 miles an hour, then we are likely to get killed. Unfortunately, innocent people also perish due to the foolishness of others, and the death of anyone, whether they were foolish or not, remains horribly tragic.

I believe that God is in control, but he does not force his will upon humankind. We are independent moral agents, who are able to choose against God and do as we please. So if I would choose between living life "on my own", or choosing to believe in a God who may sometimes allow things to happen in my life which I may disagree with, I choose the latter. I believe his is a loving God, and as I mature, and start asking things according to his will, his sovereignty will become more important than what I wanted, and as my will and his will starts to become the same thing, my prayers will also get answered.

 

[doseofreality]

I believe that God is in control, but he does not force his will upon humankind. We are independent moral agents, who are able to choose against God and do as we please.

The problem is with the idea that God is in charge here. He's not. He handed authority over to us, we hand(ed) our authority over to a deceiver.

This seems to be the christian consensus apart from some Calvinists. I will conclude then that you are saying this means that God is not completely sovereign then, in the way I am defining sovereignty.
Divine sovereignty: Ultimate control over creation, nothing can occur outside the will of a perfect God.

Sovereignty means He is in full Control and he chooses not to intervene, because of a plan greater than the one we can formulate in our own minds, who am I to question the Creator's intentions?

To me this seems to contradict slightly what is said above. If He has a plan then its still His will or desire for us to choose the way we do and its not possible for us to be independent agents if what we do is already part of a divine plan.

I will assume this is not really what you mean otherwise I will continue arguing that you are believing a contradiction in regards to your definition of God.

 

[RickyZ]

This seems to be the christian consensus apart from some Calvinists. I will conclude then that you are saying this means that God is not completely sovereign then, in the way I am defining sovereignty.
Divine sovereignty: Ultimate control over creation, nothing can occur outside the will of a perfect God.

There is a difference in having authority and using it. A Sheriff is the ultimate law enforcement authority in the county (and therefore sovereign), yet he empowers his deputies to do the actual enforcement of his authority. Yes the Sheriff could over-ride the actions of any of his deputies, but by and large he doesn't unless they step out of line. In the same way God is the sovereign authority, but has chosen to give us the authority to do or not do His will. He could just snap His fingers and end all this. But just because someone is able to do something, it doesn't mean they will.

 

[TashMeyer76]

Romans 9:20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, 'why did you make me like this?'

God's Sovereignty is clearly a stumbling block to most unbelievers and atheist in this case. Seeking contradictory statements among statements made from human understanding and interpretation, when the fact thereof is....

If God truly controls everything, how can humans have free will? It is obvious from Scripture and from life that people do have free will. We are not robots. We make both good and bad choices. However, the Holy Spirit prompts the human heart to choose God, a good choice. In the examples of King David and the Apostle Paul, God also works with man's bad choices to turn lives around.

The ugly truth is that sinful human beings deserve nothing from a holy God.

Part of God's sovereignty is that despite our unworthiness, he chooses to love and save us anyway. He gives everyone the freedom to accept or reject his love - you've chosen to reject it, I chose to accept it.

God is sovereign in the delegation of His power to others. Why did God endow Methuselah with a vitality which enabled him to outlive all his contemporaries? Why did God impart to Samson a physical strength which no other human has ever possessed? Again; it is written, "But thou shalt remember the Lord thy God: for it is He that giveth thee power to get wealth" (Deut. 8:18), but God does not bestow this power on all alike. Why not? Why has He given such power to men like Morgan, Carnegie, Rockefeller? The answer to all of these questions, is, Because God is Sovereign, and being Sovereign He does as He pleases.