Salvation Not Possible Without Works

[Jabberjaw]

so your perfect? You are sinless?

If what you claim is true, NO ONE will get to heaven. period.

No, that is why we have to "work" at it, when we sin we ask for forgiveness, this is possible through the blood of the perfect lamb :

1 John 1:7 (KJV)
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

 

[homwardbound]

Amen, and praise God we need to trust alone in Christ not self righteous and boasting about our performances!
Shalom HB!

It is by Christ we are saved and stay that way, and all we do is respond as King David did before the cross in Psalms 100:4 and then move and have our being by The Spirit of Father through Son, this is done so we can rest and whistle while we work not viewing it as work any longer, that is what is so amazing about Father's love to us all through Son, Christ

I call this God-quill, not Ny-quill, so I can rest now forever in Father through Son

 

[homwardbound]

Amen, and praise God we need to trust alone in Christ not self righteous and boasting about our performances!
Shalom HB!

and welcome aboard to learn much about our Savior, and tell us what you see as in truth for now as we all here are growing in grace from God. God reaching out to us all I think to set us all free in God's truth through Son, I beleive God does just love us that much, and is obvious that God does since God has put up with us all from Day one of creation

 

[homwardbound]

Hebrews says that sacrifice was good until the end of time. But simply atoning for sin does not forgive sin. If it did, everyone would be going to heaven since He propitiated the sin of the world. Simply performing a sacrifice does not forgive. Christ could not through that one time sacrifice even forgive sins until He returned to heaven to become our High Priest.

It seems you are still striking at your strawman. Mischaracterizations does not refute anything.

Thank you fro revealing to me your unbelief in the finished work of Father through Son, Jesus Christ. If one has doubts that he did it all and is risen any doubt, subjects one to not see the whole truth, as which post after post, shows me your doubt, and I pray for your Faith to see without a doubt it is all Father through Son, we are redeemed whether anyone believes or not.
For nothing can separate us from the Love of God. Time to appreciate, and stop man works, and trust God to love us that deeply and become responders to this love in so much appreciation one can't help but to spread this great news
God just love us all. I do not care what you do or not do, God just love you, and is risen for you.
It is finished as this is what he said in John 19:30, do you have doubts in this?
And if you say you don't, well cool, you will be saved then, Hallelujah

 

[homwardbound]

Are you not actually reading your texts that you cited. God did not just arbitraily pardon Nineveh. They repented, the King demanded that even the cattle be cloaked with sackcloth and ashes. You need to do your homework much better.
Your throwing mud hoping some sticks.

So sorry, you don't see, maybe you need to be treated to see as Jonah was treated to see, as he set up camp after they were given Mercy in anger he was over God giving them Mercy.
God has by Christ today given Mercy through his Son's death is this truth or not? Before you and I were ever born truth or not?
What do you beleive? Is it by and through Christ done completed or not? to all and for all?

 

[Cassian]

Thank you fro revealing to me your unbelief in the finished work of Father through Son, Jesus Christ. If one has doubts that he did it all and is risen any doubt, subjects one to not see the whole truth, as which post after post, shows me your doubt, and I pray for your Faith to see without a doubt it is all Father through Son, we are redeemed whether anyone believes or not.
For nothing can separate us from the Love of God. Time to appreciate, and stop man works, and trust God to love us that deeply and become responders to this love in so much appreciation one can't help but to spread this great news
God just love us all. I do not care what you do or not do, God just love you, and is risen for you.
It is finished as this is what he said in John 19:30, do you have doubts in this?
And if you say you don't, well cool, you will be saved then, Hallelujah

I have no idea of how this contributes to the discussion. A lot of words but not directed at anything relevant.
The only thing relevant is that God loves everyone. Does anyone deny that. God's love will follow those even who are in hell. So how does that help the discussion.

 

[homwardbound]

Sadly, if you have actually read my posts, you have exhibited no understanding of what I have stated. In fact, you are stating it incorrectly. You have mischaracterized it again, as do all the others, since it seems that is the only way you can seemingly have a view that stands. You keep creating all these strawmen and knocking them down and never get to the discusion of the topic. Now, that may be your method of diversion because all, after two threads, no one has yet presented texts that actually confirm your view. so deflection helps but keeps proving the falsity of the view of "being saved by faith only".

Okay straight up then. How is one saved? By Faith in Father through Christ alone, Father doing it all?
Or by us doing works after saying we have faith?

 

[Jabberjaw]

Thank you fro revealing to me your unbelief in the finished work of Father through Son, Jesus Christ. If one has doubts that he did it all and is risen any doubt, subjects one to not see the whole truth, as which post after post, shows me your doubt, and I pray for your Faith to see without a doubt it is all Father through Son, we are redeemed whether anyone believes or not.
For nothing can separate us from the Love of God. Time to appreciate, and stop man works, and trust God to love us that deeply and become responders to this love in so much appreciation one can't help but to spread this great news
God just love us all. I do not care what you do or not do, God just love you, and is risen for you.
It is finished as this is what he said in John 19:30, do you have doubts in this?
And if you say you don't, well cool, you will be saved then, Hallelujah

How does Christ saying He is finished (meaning he fulfilled all prophecy) have anything to do with you obeying (or not obeying) His commands such as Mark 16:16?

 

[Cassian]

So sorry, you don't see, maybe you need to be treated to see as Jonah was treated to see, as he set up camp after they were given Mercy in anger he was over God giving them Mercy.
God has by Christ today given Mercy through his Son's death is this truth or not? Before you and I were ever born truth or not?
What do you beleive? Is it by and through Christ done completed or not? to all and for all?

Again, not relevant to the discusion.
Christ had mercy upon the world, every human being. Every single human being was saved from the condemnation through Adam. That work of redemption is complete. We (man) had nothing to do with it, and nothing we do will effect it in any way. The discussion is why did God save the human race/the world from death? Then how is He reaching out to individual man and healing us as individuals. Your view, man is made perfect upon an instant of faith, saved by faith only. What man actually does after this moment is all inconsequencial to the healing of man. He is just biding time here on earth, has no purpose since He was declared perfected in one moment of belief.

Adam was not created perfect, and he fell in working out his salvation of becoming immortal. He failed in his vocation and took every man with him. Christ rescued us from that condemnation, so that all men couild again, have the free choice of having life or death (spiritual), in this life and for eternity. What we do in this life determines where we will spend eternity.

 

[homwardbound]

You seem to have a problem with English as well as the Greek, This verse is telling you very directly that the work is you. God, actually the Holy Spirit works in you(for you) to will and do his good pleasure. If it was God doing His work through you the pronoun would be "my" good pleasure.
By the way Satan does the very same thing. He is also working in you to will and do of his desire also.
Therein lies the fulcrum of man's personal salvation. It is man that determines which road he will take. God cannot force you one way or the other, neither can Satan. Why would God need you to love Himself. Or need you to love another person. Do you think God is incapable of loving a human being without going through you?

Cool truth here, yeah it is all God and it is God by me beleiving God, no doubts, that God is manifested in and through me, showing God's love that God gave me through Son to participate in the same as Christ did, being led by Father in the Spirit and listened and did as the Father said, 100% no doubt dependent on Father's lead, and so it was not Christ that did the work, it was Father.
So are we to beleive as Chirst belived and be led as Christ was led, doing the works of Father, not our own?

 

[homwardbound]

You seem to have a problem with English as well as the Greek, This verse is telling you very directly that the work is you. God, actually the Holy Spirit works in you(for you) to will and do his good pleasure. If it was God doing His work through you the pronoun would be "my" good pleasure.
By the way Satan does the very same thing. He is also working in you to will and do of his desire also.
Therein lies the fulcrum of man's personal salvation. It is man that determines which road he will take. God cannot force you one way or the other, neither can Satan. Why would God need you to love Himself. Or need you to love another person. Do you think God is incapable of loving a human being without going through you?

Oh and Satan is of the flesh and that by Christ's death is dead, and that is a done deal why? Because I believe what Paul said in Phil 3:1-11, There in the pst were doubts, and God ahs shown me to not have doubts with by having no confidence in flesh works at all

Thank you very much, hoping you see in the Spirit and not the flesh that is at war with God since day one of the fall

 

[francina]

Okay straight up then. How is one saved? By Faith in Father through Christ alone, Father doing it all?
Or by us doing works after saying we have faith?

Worth repeating, we are saved by the washing AND REGENERATION of the Holy Spirit. We are saved by grace TO DO GOOD WORKS. Grace, salvation and faith are misinterpreted by you. To say grace is a free gift is like saying my shirt is purple. That tells me nothing about it except whatever it is, it is free. The Grace of God is Him putting His Spirit within us empowering us to DO His will. The Spirit of Christ in us, the same Spirit that raised Christ from the dead - this Spirit of Grace that hovered over darkness and formlessness waiting for the Word - lives in us. So that when God says "Be ye holy for I am holy." Then we renew all doubt to the contrary and persist in meditating on those words prayerfully and the Spirit of Grace which gives us the desire to be holy empowers to act holy. Faith without works is dead. The word faith in that passage of James is talking about the doctrines of Jesus Christ. If we claim Him as Lord and say we believe but do not obey the doctrines then are faith is dead. I ask you as James asks, "Can that kind of faith SAVE you?" No, it can not.

 

[Cassian]

Okay straight up then. How is one saved? By Faith in Father through Christ alone, Father doing it all?
Or by us doing works after saying we have faith?

It is hard to answer all these strawmen. Your statements are your understanding of scripture which is what I and others are stating is incorrect.
We are not saved ONLY by simple faith. We are being saved through faith. The faith must remain, constant, continuous. And while the faith is in effect, we are working out our salvation with the Holy Spirit. The HOLY SPIRIT does NOT do any of the work. He helps us to do the work. But the work is to live toward perfection in devoping the virtues of humility, liberality, chastity, mildness, temperance, happiness, diligence. These are done to offer help against the opposite of vices, Pride, Greed, Lust, anger, Gluttony, envy, and sloth. The foundation is love. Love is the greatest and by obedience to God we show our love of Him

Your statement shows that you do not have faith if you say that we don't need to do works after faith. It is the works that manifests your faith. YOu cannot say you have faith, then not obey. It is the same thing as saying I love my neigbor then I go and kill him.

 

[homwardbound]

Could you explain to me just how Christ saved you on the Cross as an individual?

Yeah he took away all sins that I could ever commit through this final shed blood of his not only for me but for all the world
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John was this witness before hand to show you it is true

John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Who is the thief? Is it flesh that we all are first born with, by first birth are we not Son's of Adam?
And by this not our fault, it is what it is. What do we need?
Born again right, could works ever do this? I think not, the First Chosen showed this by example never having their consciences purged from Sin, having to sacrifice year after year, always keeping them in remembrance of their not being right with God, you think? I mean if I had to sacrifice an innocent animal, year after year, to get my sins forgiven, I surely would be not wanting to sin wouldn't you? As I see you don't want to, yet do. as I did constantly and now daily being reminded of any and all sins, Thus going and asking Father to take them away and then seeing they are not, trying harder to not do them and finding me still doing them

Are you with me so far, is this not what is going on with you behind closed doors as you are not alone in this, There are many stuck right here in this trap that i am speaking to you about
Sin, repent, sin repent, sin repent, and really want to escape from this sin that they do over and over again, asking god to show them and trying all over again and again, trapped behind closed doors and hide just as Adam and Eve did

In prayer to You God reveals what is keeping you trapped, and to learn from this verse below:

Galatians 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

What brings life and what brings death? is it by how a man thinks?
So does it matter to flesh emotion what I want, or does flesh emotion predictably respond and act out what is in my mind,?
Does flesh emotion know any right or wrong?
Take emotion and call it the caboose on a train, and truth the engine. Can the train run correctly in the Caboose is in the lead?
The same with our flesh emotions, you think?
And this world teaches to change your feelings right?
I know of no man that can change his feelings without changing his thoughts do you?
And that is why after one believes, we are to learn to:

Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

This world goes by feelings, God goes by truth, and wants me, you and all to receive it truth above emotions, where we can live above any and all circumstances in contentment
Hope you see it, All in love to you from Father and me

 

[VCO]

Every man's sins put him on the Cross. Christ propitiated the sin of the world I John 2:2. That does not save you as an individual. However, if you think that saved you, then it also saved everyone else and all will be in heaven.

One cannot be savedwithout the Cross, but the Cross, did not save you as an individual. Christ performing a sacrifice for sin does not save you in the particular.

It is not about making it personal. It does not become personal until one believes, because then it is that Christ forgives your sin because you repented and confessed your sin. The sacrifice of itself does not just automatically save anyone. What it actually did was freed mankind from the bondage to sin. Since Christ defeated death by which we were condemned, now man is going to be held liable for his sin. Sin has become man's responsibility now.

AGain, everyone's sins were there, not just yours. Even those that don't believe, their sins were there as well. Christ propitiated the sin of the world, He performed ONE sacrifice that will be sufficient to forgive all sins.

This leads one to believe, have faith in Christ, but again, many who start out with pure, good faith, can and will depart that faith as scripture so clearly portrays. Unless one continues to believe until the end, one cannot be saved.

so the Cross in and of itself does not save you as an individual relative to one's relationship with Christ. It makes it possible which was the whole purpose of Christ saving the world from death and sin. Freeing mankind from the former bondage to death and sin. Man is now freed again to choose life or death (spiritual) but he must remain faithful in all things to inherit eternal life with Christ eternally.

It appeared to me that you came close to genuine saving faith, but then you wallowed back into the pigsty of, "I have to do my part to save me."; and denying the price CHRIST PAID TO SAVE YOU.

It is time for me to kick the dust from my feet and go on to someone else.

Colossians 1:19-22 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell,
[SUP]20 [/SUP] and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled
[SUP]22 [/SUP] in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight--

Hebrews 10:29 (NIV)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?

 

[homwardbound]

View attachment 77410

Does anyone see it like this?

Thanks for our work towards this perfection that God wants no one, but Christ could ever attain it, proof by the first chosen who proved this by not ever being perfect in the energy of their own flesh, and having to get forgiven atoned for until the next year after year after year.
Their conscience never purged from sin, where as Christ took it away and did not atone for sin, no he took it all away in Father's view, not this world's view. That is the difference that man does not see, that after the cross it is taken away in Father's sight, so Father can live in us by the power of the same Holy Spirit that led Christ, Proof, Pentecost, and i am not speaking of one must speak in tongues to have received, it is whether or not you have received God's love as in 1 Cor 13:4-13
And the conscience is thus purged from sin, once that love of God is imputed in you by believing God and trusting God and lasting through not giving up, that God will come through in you and through you standing firm in the Faith that it is all God and not giving up, God eventually shows you the truth if one will not give up to see it, in all honesty, God will reveal it to all that have no wrong motives as Lucifer did and does

The work that is spoken of here is the work to work hard to enter rest, and be at rest 24/7 Hebrews 3 and 4

 

[Cassian]

Yeah he took away all sins that I could ever commit through this final shed blood of his not only for me but for all the world
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John was this witness before hand to show you it is true

John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Who is the thief? Is it flesh that we all are first born with, by first birth are we not Son's of Adam?
And by this not our fault, it is what it is. What do we need?
Born again right, could works ever do this? I think not, the First Chosen showed this by example never having their consciences purged from Sin, having to sacrifice year after year, always keeping them in remembrance of their not being right with God, you think? I mean if I had to sacrifice an innocent animal, year after year, to get my sins forgiven, I surely would be not wanting to sin wouldn't you? As I see you don't want to, yet do. as I did constantly and now daily being reminded of any and all sins, Thus going and asking Father to take them away and then seeing they are not, trying harder to not do them and finding me still doing them

Are you with me so far, is this not what is going on with you behind closed doors as you are not alone in this, There are many stuck right here in this trap that i am speaking to you about
Sin, repent, sin repent, sin repent, and really want to escape from this sin that they do over and over again, asking god to show them and trying all over again and again, trapped behind closed doors and hide just as Adam and Eve did

In prayer to You God reveals what is keeping you trapped, and to learn from this verse below:

Galatians 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

What brings life and what brings death? is it by how a man thinks?
So does it matter to flesh emotion what I want, or does flesh emotion predictably respond and act out what is in my mind,?
Does flesh emotion know any right or wrong?
Take emotion and call it the caboose on a train, and truth the engine. Can the train run correctly in the Caboose is in the lead?
The same with our flesh emotions, you think?
And this world teaches to change your feelings right?
I know of no man that can change his feelings without changing his thoughts do you?
And that is why after one believes, we are to learn to:

Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

This world goes by feelings, God goes by truth, and wants me, you and all to receive it truth above emotions, where we can live above any and all circumstances in contentment
Hope you see it, All in love to you from Father and me

I'm not sure just why I have a very difficult time understanding just what you are trying to convey. Maybe English might not be your native language and your presentation does not adaquately say what you may want to say.

Also, you are going all over the place with analogies that are different than scripture gives them.

You still have a lot of strawmen you have created as well.
There is nothing new I can add that I have not already explained clearly ad nauseam and yet it has not been refuted. I don't think what you are saying changes that.

 

[VCO]

I"t is clearly taught in the Bible that no one is saved in their sin ,they must leave their sins behind when they enter the narrow gate leading to Heaven. Love to all, Hoffco

Do you want to learn what the narrow gate is?

John 1:12-13 (NIV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Yet to all who received Him, to those who believed in His name, he gave the right to become children of God--
[SUP]13 [/SUP] children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

Receiving HIM is the NARROW GATE, but receive HIM AS WHAT?

Colossians 2:6 (NIV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live in Him,

Receiving HIM as LORD, means to willingly out of love SUBMIT TO HIM AS MASTER.

Many want a Savior but very few want a MASTER, because they want to remain "lord" of their own lives.

 

[homwardbound]

I"t is clearly taught in the Bible that no one is saved in their sin ,they must leave their sins behind when they enter the narrow gate leading to Heaven. Love to all, Hoffco

By belief in the finished work is right there what is done, and by Faith, F= forwarding A= all I = issues T = to H = heaven in trust to Father through son, it is completed done, yet because of doubt, man just has to do something to be right with God when by God through Son we are made right, redeemed and God is waiting for us to see this truth in God and appreciate God to the fullest by turning around in thankfulness and thus love all as in 1 Cor 13:4-13

 

[Cassian]

It appeared to me that you came close to genuine saving faith, but then you wallowed back into the pigsty of, "I have to do my part to save me."; and denying the price CHRIST PAID TO SAVE YOU.

It is time for me to kick the dust from my feet and go on to someone else.

Which your view denies why Christ created man in the first place. Adam was required to do the very same thing we are required to do to be perfected. He fell and so can we. There is really nothing complex about it.

Colossians 1:19-22 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell,
[SUP]20 [/SUP]and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled
[SUP]22 [/SUP]in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight--

Hebrews 10:29 (NIV)
[SUP]29 [/SUP]How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?[/QUOTE]


You should ask yourself those questions. It speaks diametrically against the "faith only, and instant salvation. Many have trampled that gift, and rejected it after having entered into Christ. You cannot be saved when you deny Christ at any time in your life, before faith, or after faith.

What you fail to understand in these texts is that Christ saved (sanctified all things) through His Blood, Col 1:20. He did that for all men so that He could by our faith present us holy, blameless to the Father. But unfortunately many do trample on that Gift.