SALVATION ONLY POSSIBLE WITHOUT WORKS!

[paulsfam4]

they are probably working on it !!

 

[dcontroversal]

1 John 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light word, commandments, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Seems to me you added two words to the above text...upon who's authority do you add two words to a text? And to prove a point we see a (pusher) of false religion agreed with your addition to the word of God which states a lot!

 

[dcontroversal]

No, but it would be like three unlearned people that think God will do all the work holding them up. and if they fall its Gods fault.

And who said or implied any of the accusations found in this post Flipper! As not one person in this thread has stated verbatim that a saved child of God does not have to do anything for God.......!

 

[Jabberjaw]

Agreed.

As is claiming to read the Greek definitions of words, such as "justification,"
and actually reading the Greek definitions of words are likewise two different things.

There is no shortage of Greek scholars to translate the koine Greek.
Failure to consult them shows. . .? several things.

You keep saying that, but I have yet to see you quote any Greek, just a lot of talk

 

[know1]

Failure to forgive manifests an unforgiving heart, because it has not itself received forgiveness through true faith.

Unforgiving hearts do not have true faith, and are not saved, as shown above.

I must have had true faith before I even knew Jesus as my lord, as I forgave many people all through my growing years.
You have scripture ma'am for the above statement? You said as shown above, what verses are you referring to?

 

[Jabberjaw]

And who said or implied any of the accusations found in this post Flipper! As not one person in this thread has stated verbatim that a saved child of God does not have to do anything for God.......!

Yes they have including you, all the faith only and once saved always saved claim all is a gift of God, therefore if faith is a gift of God, and faith is the only thing they need, then since Christ died for all men, if any man be lost, God slipped up somewhere, it His fault they are lost.

 

[know1]

Matt 6: 15.

Do not forgive

Me (do not) Aphete (forgive)

Verb Aorist Active subjunctive, 2nd person plural/ finite verb


A finite verb is one which changes to maintain continuance with the subject. In other words. Once you have forgiven someone, the term ceases to exist.

Next??

Since the KJB wasn't an inspired translation, what about all these versions? They all say the same thing to me.

Matthew 6:15


(BBE) But if you do not let men have forgiveness for their sins, you will not have forgiveness from your Father for your sins.


(CEV) But if you don't forgive others, your Father will not forgive your sins.


(DRB) But if you will not forgive men, neither will your Father forgive you your offences.


(EMTV) But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.


(ERV) But if you don't forgive others, then your Father in heaven will not forgive the wrongs you do.


(ESV) but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.


(GNB) But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive the wrongs you have done.


(GNT) ἐὰν δὲ μὴ ἀφῆτε τοῖς ἀνθρώποις τὰ παραπτώματα αὐτῶν, οὐδὲ ὁ πατὴρ ὑμῶν ἀφήσει τὰ παραπτώματα ὑμῶν.


(GNT-BYZ+) εανG1437 COND δεG1161 CONJ μηG3361 PRT-N αφητεG863 V-2AAS-2P τοιςG3588 T-DPM ανθρωποιςG444 N-DPM ταG3588 T-APN παραπτωματαG3900 N-APN αυτωνG846 P-GPM ουδεG3761 CONJ-N οG3588 T-NSM πατηρG3962 N-NSM υμωνG4771 P-2GP αφησειG863 V-FAI-3S ταG3588 T-APN παραπτωματαG3900 N-APN υμωνG4771 P-2GP


(GNT-TR) εαν δε μη αφητε τοις ανθρωποις τα παραπτωματα αυτων ουδε ο πατηρ υμων αφησει τα παραπτωματα υμων


(GNT-TR+) εανG1437 COND δεG1161 CONJ μηG3361 PRT-N αφητεG863 V-2AAS-2P τοιςG3588 T-DPM ανθρωποιςG444 N-DPM ταG3588 T-APN παραπτωματαG3900 N-APN αυτωνG846 P-GPM ουδεG3761 CONJ-N οG3588 T-NSM πατηρG3962 N-NSM υμωνG4771 P-2GP αφησειG863 V-FAI-3S ταG3588 T-APN παραπτωματαG3900 N-APN υμωνG4771 P-2GP


(GNT-WH+) εανG1437 COND δεG1161 CONJ μηG3361 PRT-N αφητεG863 V-2AAS-2P τοιςG3588 T-DPM ανθρωποιςG444 N-DPM | [ταG3588 T-APN παραπτωματαG3900 N-APN αυτων]G846 P-GPM | | ουδεG3761 CONJ-N οG3588 T-NSM πατηρG3962 N-NSM υμωνG4771 P-2GP αφησειG863 V-FAI-3S ταG3588 T-APN παραπτωματαG3900 N-APN υμωνG4771 P-2GP


(GW) But if you don't forgive others, your Father will not forgive your failures.


(ISV) But if you do not forgive people their offenses, your Father will not forgive your offenses."


(KJV) But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.


(KJV+) ButG1161 ifG1437 ye forgiveG863 notG3361 menG444 theirG846 trespasses,G3900 neitherG3761 will yourG5216 FatherG3962 forgiveG863 yourG5216 trespasses.G3900


(LITV) But if you will not forgive men their deviations, neither will your Father forgive your deviations.


(LXX+WH+) εανG1437 COND δεG1161 CONJ μηG3361 PRT-N αφητεG863[G5632] V-2AAS-2P τοιςG3588 T-DPM ανθρωποιςG444 N-DPM | " ταG3588 T-APN παραπτωματαG3900 N-APN αυτων "G846 P-GPM | | ουδεG3761 ADV οG3588 T-NSM πατηρG3962 N-NSM υμωνG5216 P-2GP αφησειG863[G5692] V-FAI-3S ταG3588 T-APN παραπτωματαG3900 N-APN υμωνG5216 P-2GP


(MKJV) but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.


(Murdock) But if ye shall not forgive men, your Father also forgiveth not you your faults.


(RV) But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.


(Vulgate) si autem non dimiseritis hominibus nec Pater vester dimittet peccata vestra


(Webster) But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.


(WNT) but if you do not forgive others their offences, neither will your Father forgive yours.


(YLT) but if ye may not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Don't make me hit you like this with the other verses in question.

 

[dcontroversal]

Yes they have including you, all the faith only and once saved always saved claim all is a gift of God, therefore if faith is a gift of God, and faith is the only thing they need, then since Christ died for all men, if any man be lost, God slipped up somewhere, it His fault they are lost.

Did not God make the wicked for the day of destruction?
Did not God deal to every man a measure of faith?
Is not salvation open to all?
Do not men CHOOSE to take the broad wide path to destruction?
Do not men choose to REJECT THE FREE OFFER OF SALVATION
DO not SEEDS FALL EVERY YEAR TO THE GROUND THAT FAIL TO OPEN AND GROW?

WORKS DO NOT SAVE, CANNOT SAVE, WILL NOT SAVE as JESUS ALREADY DID THE WORK and all we have to do is acknowledge HIS WORK BY FAITH THAT HES HAS GIVEN UNTO ALL MEN<---THE ability to believe

 

[Jabberjaw]

Did not God make the wicked for the day of destruction?
Did not God deal to every man a measure of faith?
Is not salvation open to all?
Do not men CHOOSE to take the broad wide path to destruction?
Do not men choose to REJECT THE FREE OFFER OF SALVATION
DO not SEEDS FALL EVERY YEAR TO THE GROUND THAT FAIL TO OPEN AND GROW?

WORKS DO NOT SAVE, CANNOT SAVE, WILL NOT SAVE as JESUS ALREADY DID THE WORK and all we have to do is acknowledge HIS WORK BY FAITH THAT HES HAS GIVEN UNTO ALL MEN<---THE ability to believe

And according to you all men have been "given faith" therefore since you say "JESUS ALREADY DID THE WORK" then all men are saved, and if not Jesus missed somebody

 

[dcontroversal]

And according to you all men have been "given faith" therefore since you say "JESUS ALREADY DID THE WORK" then all men are saved, and if not Jesus missed somebody

Your conclusion on what I believe and teach is wrong.....as all men have the ability to believe but that does not mean they will acknowledge Jesus as Lord and Savior....You can twist all you want and it will still be a twist at the end of the day......

 

[Karraster]

[SUP]11 [/SUP]Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

 

[dcontroversal]

[SUP]11 [/SUP]Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

Yes in deed...the emphasis being on the complete suit of armor so as to be able to STAND YOUR GROUND!

 

[kennethcadwell]

Your conclusion on what I believe and teach is wrong.....as all men have the ability to believe but that does not mean they will acknowledge Jesus as Lord and Savior....You can twist all you want and it will still be a twist at the end of the day......

I am glad to see you say that men still have to acknowledge ( accept ) Jesus as Lord and Savior. There have been others though who say you don't have to do anything to get it. That would imply that all are saved, which is not true. The part we still don't agree on though is the once saved always saved.

Just to mention though I am not Baptist, I consider myself non-denominational because I have seen the good and bad to all denominations including the biggest issue it causes within its members and that is division do to pride by thinking one is better than another.

 

[Deadtosin]

ON THE BRIGHT SIDE, Every single person who ever lived will know the Truth.. Regardless of anyone's thought/logic. We will all stand before God. For those who believe one thing-great. Those who believe another-superb. It won't be a board of your peers who judge you. Almighty God will. Though this message may seem like something very far away and almost intangible- it in fact is not far away and it will be the most tangible moment we've ever experienced.

 

[Hoffco]

Seems to me that the order is...Salvation-->Justification-->Sanctification--->Glorification

Here is God's order of His salvation plan, purpose: Rom.8:29-30:
1. "foreknew", foreknown, = LOVED, "Jacob I have loved" "in love He predestined" Eph.1:4-5
2. "predestined" chose, elected
3. "called" "born again" Jh.3:3,5,7,21; "called" Rom.1:6-7; 1Cor.1:24,26; "calling"; 1 Cor 1:26; you were "chosen"v.27; then "called"/"sanctified" v.2; 1Cor.1:30, "of Him (God) you are in Christ Jesus"
4. "justified" ( this is after sanctification , after "called"
5. "glorified" (this is the final step , perfection in heaven after the resurrection.
All the Bible says the new birth comes before forgiveness of sins, we are dead, God gives life then we repent, trust and obey to be justified.
Love to all, Hoffco

 

[Jabberjaw]

Your conclusion on what I believe and teach is wrong.....as all men have the ability to believe but that does not mean they will acknowledge Jesus as Lord and Savior....You can twist all you want and it will still be a twist at the end of the day......

So you're saying there is more to salvation than faith?

 

[dcontroversal]

I am glad to see you say that men still have to acknowledge ( accept ) Jesus as Lord and Savior. There have been others though who say you don't have to do anything to get it. That would imply that all are saved, which is not true. The part we still don't agree on though is the once saved always saved.

Just to mention though I am not Baptist, I consider myself non-denominational because I have seen the good and bad to all denominations including the biggest issue it causes within its members and that is division do to pride by thinking one is better than another.

I don't understand how you can believe that you can loose salvation when considering that a spirit that has been born of God is eternal, doesn't sin and is secure in the Perfect Faith of Christ...until the resurrection/change this spirit is bound in a body of sin, that is sold under sin, cannot be made straight and is not subject unto the law of God and no matter how we try it will always ultimately fail as the SPIRIT IS indeed willing, but the FLESH IS WEAK which is why men cannot measure up in the flesh. I have not said that men are not supposed to surrender to the will of God and do the Good works that we have been called to. My contention and Biblical argument is simply that it is the perfect FAITH OF JESUS that SAVES us and JUSTIFIES US BEFORE the throne of GOD....NOT OUR WORKS.....OUR WORKS PROVE to ALL MEN AROUND US that WE HAVE the SAVING FAITH OF JESUS in our LIVES and applied unto OUR LIVES.....

 

[dcontroversal]

So you're saying there is more to salvation than faith?

NO this is what I am saying.....

I don't understand how you can believe that you can loose salvation when considering that a spirit that has been born of God is eternal, doesn't sin and is secure in the Perfect Faith of Christ...until the resurrection/change this spirit is bound in a body of sin, that is sold under sin, cannot be made straight and is not subject unto the law of God and no matter how we try it will always ultimately fail as the SPIRIT IS indeed willing, but the FLESH IS WEAK which is why men cannot measure up in the flesh. I have not said that men are not supposed to surrender to the will of God and do the Good works that we have been called to. My contention and Biblical argument is simply that it is the perfect FAITH OF JESUS that SAVES us and JUSTIFIES US BEFORE the throne of GOD....NOT OUR WORKS.....OUR WORKS PROVE to ALL MEN AROUND US that WE HAVE the SAVING FAITH OF JESUS in our LIVES and applied unto OUR LIVES.....

 

[dcontroversal]

ON THE BRIGHT SIDE, Every single person who ever lived will know the Truth.. Regardless of anyone's thought/logic. We will all stand before God. For those who believe one thing-great. Those who believe another-superb. It won't be a board of your peers who judge you. Almighty God will. Though this message may seem like something very far away and almost intangible- it in fact is not far away and it will be the most tangible moment we've ever experienced.

And coming soon........

 

[kennethcadwell]

The reasoning comes in two forms:

1) Scriptures that talk about those that have fallen away, and how one can fall away.

2) Seeing for myself some who have fell away, and personal experience in bringing some back to Christ.

I don't understand how you can believe that you can loose salvation when considering that a spirit that has been born of God is eternal, doesn't sin and is secure in the Perfect Faith of Christ...until the resurrection/change this spirit is bound in a body of sin, that is sold under sin, cannot be made straight and is not subject unto the law of God and no matter how we try it will always ultimately fail as the SPIRIT IS indeed willing, but the FLESH IS WEAK which is why men cannot measure up in the flesh. I have not said that men are not supposed to surrender to the will of God and do the Good works that we have been called to. My contention and Biblical argument is simply that it is the perfect FAITH OF JESUS that SAVES us and JUSTIFIES US BEFORE the throne of GOD....NOT OUR WORKS.....OUR WORKS PROVE to ALL MEN AROUND US that WE HAVE the SAVING FAITH OF JESUS in our LIVES and applied unto OUR LIVES.....