Did Jesus Return in AD 70?

[posthuman]

if Jesus returned in AD 70, i sure hope He's planning to return a 3rd time, or me & you and everyone else is out of luck, eh?

 

[kennethcadwell]

Oikoumene means the inhabited earth, and the meaning behind how it was used in the new testament was to the whole kingdom to come, not just a portion of it.

I believe the Gospel went out and filled the Roman world, is what the Greek word "oikoumene" means.

Matthew 24:14
14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world (oikoumene) as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. (the end of Roman and Jewish persecution I think from context verse 9).

G3625
οἰκουμένη
oikoumenē
oy-kou-men'-ay
Feminine participle present passive of G3611 (as noun, by implication of G1093); land, that is, the (terrene part of the) globe; specifically the Roman empire: - earth, world.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Yes God could of, but the fact is He charged the apostles do this as well as the ones to follow. Plus to say God did this everywhere, why even though religions almost everywhere had a belief in one supreme being, they however did not know about Jesus and what He did for us. There are some areas of the earth that still don't know about Jesus. In order for this to be fulfilled there should not be one person who has not heard the name.

[SUP]34 [/SUP]The eunuch answered Philip and said, “Please tell me, of whom does the prophet say this? Of himself or of someone else?” [SUP]35 [/SUP]Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him. [SUP]36 [/SUP]As they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch *said, “Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?” [SUP]37 [/SUP][And Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”] [SUP]38 [/SUP]And he ordered the chariot to stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch, and he baptized him. [SUP]39 [/SUP]When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord snatched Philip away; and the eunuch no longer saw him, but went on his way rejoicing. [SUP]40[/SUP]But Philip found himself at Azotus, and as he passed through he kept preaching the gospel to all the cities until he came to Caesarea.


How did Philip get to Azotus? Don't you think that God can do this anytime that He wants? The apostles went everywhere that there were people, and everyone was taught. This does not mean that everyone accepted the teaching.

 

[Bookends]

70 AD was judgement with the same language as in the past but not the same occuring events as in His next (2nd Coming).
Otherwise His first coming has no meaning since he came in judgment a number of times againt Israel in the OT.

I really don't see any judgment language associated with the second, except a final judgment, no calamity. It is said that Jesus is coming back the same way He left quietly/peacefully in the clouds. I could be wrong but the angles did say He's coming back the same way He left.

 

[Bookends]

We don't preach the Gospel of the Kingdom.That was rescinded when the Jews rejected their King in Matt 12. It will once again be preached in the Tribulation after the Church is gone and many Jews will have received their King ; then there will be a worldwide spreading of the Kingdom message.

So John the Baptist and Jesus both preach the kingdom of God is near, at hand, which means it right around the corner. It's soon to materialize or be set up, soon to come into view... I guess it came and went, Tell me how long did it last?

 

[Timeline]

We don't preach the Gospel of the Kingdom.That was rescinded when the Jews rejected their King in Matt 12. It will once again be preached in the Tribulation after the Church is gone and many Jews will have received their King ; then there will be a worldwide spreading of the Kingdom message.

Matthew 21:43 Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people, producing the fruit of it.

 

[Timeline]

if Jesus returned in AD 70, i sure hope He's planning to return a 3rd time, or me & you and everyone else is out of luck, eh?

Why, You planning to never die

 

[Timeline]

Why, You planning to never die

I am not saying that He is not coming "a third time" (I find this funny because I don't believe He was here just one time as many try to say), as we see mysterious men several times in the bible. The bible says that Jacob wrestled with God (if it was God, I think He might have let him win, what do you think). The bible also says that Enoch walked with God. It implies that God visited with Abraham. In Exodus God says, "I am" and Jesus says the same thing several times in the gospels (John 8:58-59 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.” [SUP]59 [/SUP]Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple.) Why did they pick up stones? - because Jesus said that He was God. Jesus also says that no one has ascended except for the Son of Man and we know that Enoch and Elijah ascended. The funny thing about Elijah is that Jesus also says that John was Elijah. There are many mysteries in the bible of which I don't suppose that we can understand unless God explains them to us through the Holy Spirit.

 

[crossnote]

So John the Baptist and Jesus both preach the kingdom of God is near, at hand, which means it right around the corner. It's soon to materialize or be set up, soon to come into view... I guess it came and went, Tell me how long did it last?

It was being prepared until Matthew 12. It's still to come. It was held in abeyance due to Israel's rejection of her King...and no Kingdom until they receive her King.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Romans 9:6
New American Standard Bible
But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;

The context of romans 9 and 11 is not the same, please do not make it the same.

Rom 9 is concerning who spiritual isreal is. Rom 11 is concerning physical isreal. and What God has done, is doing and will do to them.

Christ won't come till the times of the gentiles are fulfilled. All who deny Christ is a gentile.

Then who are the blinded Israel in Rom 11?/ Why did Paul not call them gentiles?

There is no distinction between Jew and gentile anymore! The unsaved people in the world are all in the same boat. When the age of the gentiles are fulfilled, meaning when all people who will be saved are saved, when God has completed His church, or bride, by faith in the cross (the mystery), so (in like manor) all Israel (switching from the physical Israel to the Spiritual Israel, the church) will be saved.

Your in salvic mode again, Gods promise to Israel was not salvic in nature Please do not try to make it one. It never was, It never will be

The age or times of the gentiles refers to the gentile kingdoms. or the time the gentiles will trample jerusalem.

At the end (not before, not during but after) All Israel is saved.

Not gentiles. Not spiritual Israel. But Isreal. you know the one blinded in part now?

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Luke 21:24
24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

Jerusalem is still being trampled by Gentiles, We have been living in the times of the Gentiles for 2000+ years and this time will end upon the 2nd coming of Christ, the end of time as we know it, and the true Israel of God will be fully vindicated by the blood of Christ and His power. All those who trusted in Christ for salvation have and will live life eternal in the final state, called the New Jerusalem, heaven etc. etc. [/QUOTE]

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But do you acknowledge the completion of the "Great Commission" (the same that Jesus referred to in Matt 24).

This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

yes, But that is not what romans 11 is about. So in context. you can not use this.

The commission is the fulfiment of the promise, in you all the nations of the world will be blessed. thats it.

I do not even like the term spiritual Israel. Abraham was not Isreal. he was a gentile. I am spiritually abraham thats all. (remember, Isreal was abrahams grandchild)

 

[crossnote]

Matthew 21:43 Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people, producing the fruit of it.

That is speaking of a future nation/generation of Jews who will receive Him, not the Church.
Same thing happened in the wilderness, the next generation 40 years later went in.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Right, so why is hard to believe that Jesus came in Judgment against prostate Israel, and uses the same language that He used in past, as to regards of His coming?

Because in the OT, The wrath of God was against the gentiles. Not isreal.

70 AD was in accordance with lev 26, not with prophecy of Gods wrath before his return.

 

[crossnote]

yes, But that is not what romans 11 is about. So in context. you can not use this.

The commission is the fulfiment of the promise, in you all the nations of the world will be blessed. thats it.

I do not even like the term spiritual Israel. Abraham was not Isreal. he was a gentile. I am spiritually abraham thats all. (remember, Isreal was abrahams grandchild)

Where does Scripture even mention the term, 'Spiritual Israel'?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

My point is that we cannot limit God's power when deciding whether or not is was possible for this to occur so quickly. Again, I believe that Paul said that it did. I also find it frustrating that the apostles asked when the end of the age would be and everyone interprets this as the end of the world. We see several examples of Jesus saying something and the apostles not understanding. I believe that is still very common among today's disciples.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]And the disciples came to the other side of the sea, but they had forgotten to bring any bread. [SUP]6 [/SUP]And Jesus said to them, “Watch out and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” [SUP]7 [/SUP]They began to discuss this among themselves, saying, “He said that because we did not bring any bread.” [SUP]8 [/SUP]But Jesus, aware of this, said, “You men of little faith, why do you discuss among yourselves that you have no bread? [SUP]9 [/SUP]Do you not yet understand or remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many baskets full you picked up? [SUP]10 [/SUP]Or the seven loaves of the four thousand, and how many large baskets full you picked up? [SUP]11 [/SUP]How is it that you do not understand that I did not speak to you concerning bread? But beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” [SUP]12 [/SUP]Then they understood that He did not say to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

This is not the only example. We must read with a sincere desire to know what God is saying. Without preconceived ideas. I have changed many of my beliefs after much reading with the desire to know what the bible says.

Has Christ returned? no
Has the end come? no
Has every stone been torn down so not one is left? (yes, ad 70)

Jesus tells John. Behold I come quickly? it has been 2000 years. has Christ came yet? I guess quickly in our time frame is not the time of God.

 

[LT]

I find the fulfillment of prophecy in 70AD as quite remarkable. For awhile, I was convinced that we must be in the post-apocalypse era... but it has been closer to 2k years instead of 1k.

The real problem is that not ALL of the prophecies were fulfilled by the destruction of Jerusalem, and the remarkable circumstances that surrounded it's fall.

I believe that God used 70AD as a 'type' for the coming Tribulation/Jacob's Trouble.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Where does Scripture even mention the term, 'Spiritual Israel'?

Not sure. nor am I sure where it came from. Although i have probably used the term a few times myself. lol

 

[LT]

Not sure. nor am I sure where it came from. Although i have probably used the term a few times myself. lol

the phrase is a paraphrase of Galatians 6:16, 'the Israel of God', meaning all those who are saved.
it is a highly debated passage among dispensationalists, because some of the divide the Church from Israel a bit too deeply.

 

[LT]

, because some of *them* divide the Church from Israel a bit too deeply.

 

[crossnote]

the phrase is a paraphrase of Galatians 6:16, 'the Israel of God', meaning all those who are saved.
it is a highly debated passage among dispensationalists, because some of the divide the Church from Israel a bit too deeply.

Galatians 6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

The Israel of God refers to the believing remnant of Israel. It just doesn't say 'spiritual Israel' or the Church unless one wants to read into it.