Is the Hebrew Roots Movement a cult?

[JGIG]

ok, here's 1. it's above your post. didn't you see it? guess not for you to say it is not said! It's all or nothing??????? All is 100&....nothing is 0%

3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?​

10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” (from Gal. 3)

10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. (from James 2)​

It's not about effort, Karraster, it's about reality. The Law requires 100% obedience 100% of the time. If you fail even 1%, you actually fail 100%. "If you keep the whole Law, yet offend in one point, you are guilty of all."

-JGIG

 

[JaumeJ]

Why are you and so many others so quick to assume one is professing to live under the law. I thought it inclusive in what I have always said to understand the foundation is the faith of Abraham in Jesus Christ Yeshua.

Are people so terrified of recognizing the holiness of the law as to reject their own teachings and faith.

How many times some of you will say, "I try not to sin, but I know I am forgiven?" If you know you sin, then you are observant of the law.

I have never asked anyone to observe laws that cannot be in force at this time, but the commandments of the Father, Jesus, are still quite in effect. You or any may teach against any of them, but remember the Master teaches us whoever teaches against one of the least of these laws will be least in the Kingdom.

The law is Holy and we are to learn the wisdom from the law. Jesus is the only One who obeyed all of the laws perfectly, and He did this for all who call upon Him in spirit and truth.

No one is doing Him service by calling what He made Holy to be profane. Learn true grace by learning which laws are to be obeyed when possible. You all do not klll, you honor your parents, you have no other God before you................and so on. When you break any of the forementioned you have sinned, therefore you have broken a law, and you are forgiven, providing you truly desire to be forgiven. Otherwise you become a wanton sinner without grace. Bless you all in Yeshua.

My reference in that post is strictly in reference to our spiritual forefather, Abraham, and all the writings provided by our loving Father, and they begin with Genesis.........

rather this is the tradgedy many are refusing to see.

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

And this is the foundation many are ignoring...

Galatians 2:19-21 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

 

[jag1977]

first I don't hold to replacement theology unless you are referring to Heb 7 where we read that the Levitical Priesthood has been REPLACED by a better Priesthood and therefore a necessitated change of the law.
Secondly you say you 'try' to keep the Mosaic Law, remember there are 613 inseperable ones to keep...a burden Jesus offered to take in Matt 11:28

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

"Levitical Priesthood has been REPLACED by a better Priesthood and therefore a necessitated change of the law"

This is true, I agree with you. I do have a thing to add... Not replaced...just a viewpoint shift........

From Carnal to Spiritual
And the coney, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.[SUP]6 [/SUP]And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you.

Nothing has changed even though I have it for you
I list these three because I find them to display my point the easiest to others.

 

[JGIG]

So now if a christian wants to learn Hebrew and identifies with Israel, they are a snob. More like a target.

HRMers tend to take offense easily, as well, develop a bit of a victim complex, and some become paranoid of the world to the point of withdrawing to Messianic 'communities' in the bush.

You're not a target. The Enemy wants you to think that so that you'll feel justified in your belief system because of perceived persecution. It's not real, Karraster. It's an illusion by the same entity that lured Eve to choose the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. You're falling for the same con.

It's not about knowing good and evil; it's about knowing your God and receiving His Life. Knowledge of good and evil doesn't change you; Christ in you changes you.

-JGIG

 

[RedTent]

Your original post in question is above. It never mentions churches. Instead it says:

Please tell me where did you hear anyone "deny that the Father created the world with precision and law" or "Many...say that to recognize God is to deny Christ."? It honestly seems as if you are bearing false witness about others. I have never once ever heard a single person make such wild claims.

Are you now saying that the ten commandments are binding? That we should listen to the law as it was given to Moses? That the old covenants are of God? That when Christ fulfilled what God had planned from the beginning it was a fulfillment, a completion of what had always been and would always be? That when we are told that we should listen to the HS lead us to the spiritual law, instead of the rituals, that it did not cancel the written law? Are you sure that you agree to these things?

 

[RedTent]

HRMers tend to take offense easily, as well, develop a bit of a victim complex, and some become paranoid of the world to the point of withdrawing to Messianic 'communities' in the bush.

You're not a target. The Enemy wants you to think that so that you'll feel justified in your belief system because of perceived persecution. It's not real, Karraster. It's an illusion by the same entity that lured Eve to choose the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. You're falling for the same con.

It's not about knowing good and evil; it's about knowing your God and receiving His Life. Knowledge of good and evil doesn't change you; Christ in you changes you.

-JGIG

It is about knowing and accepting all of God. You say Christ in you changes you, but we are saying the Christ and God are one. The changes has to be about the unity of scripture. The HS changes you, and that change has to be toward the unity of the One True God. What is opposed to that unity is not of God.

We receive His life when we know Him. If we will not open our hearts and mind to all of God, all His plan for our redemption, every bit of who God is, God can not know us.

The law was given in spirit and truth. If we say we accept the love of Christ, the salvation Christ offers , but we do not accept that God gave law to guide us, we are not accepting God as God is. The rituals are not part of the spiritual law. We do not need to accept them. But we must accept what is of God's plan for us.

 

[Karraster]

3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?​

10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” (from Gal. 3)

10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. (from James 2)​

It's not about effort, Karraster, it's about reality. The Law requires 100% obedience 100% of the time. If you fail even 1%, you actually fail 100%. "If you keep the whole Law, yet offend in one point, you are guilty of all."

-JGIG

Have you ever studied the meaning of wormwood? We all can use a better understanding of God's Word, and wormwood seems to be a part of many an unkindness.

I don't rely on God's law for salvation. I study to do what God calls good.

Reality? Here's some:[SUP]

Deut2914 [/SUP]Neither with you only do I make this covenant and this oath; [SUP]15 [/SUP]but with him that standeth here with us this day before the Lord our God, and also with him that is not here with us this day: [SUP]16 [/SUP](for ye know how we have dwelt in the land of Egypt; and how we came through the nations which ye passed by; [SUP]17 [/SUP]and ye have seen their abominations, and their idols, wood and stone, silver and gold, which were among them [SUP]18 [/SUP]lest there should be among you man, or woman, or family, or tribe, whose heart turneth away this day from the Lord our God, to go and serve the gods of these nations; lest there should be among you a root that beareth gall and wormwood; [SUP]19 [/SUP]and it come to pass, when he heareth the words of this curse, that he bless himself in his heart, saying, I shall have peace, though I walk in the imagination of mine heart, to add drunkenness to thirst: [SUP]20 [/SUP]the Lord will not spare him, but then the anger of the Lord and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the Lord shall blot out his name from under heaven.

You can't escape God's Law by imagining a vain thing.. That's reality.

 

[jag1977]

HRMers tend to take offense easily, as well, develop a bit of a victim complex, and some become paranoid of the world to the point of withdrawing to Messianic 'communities' in the bush.

You're not a target. The Enemy wants you to think that so that you'll feel justified in your belief system because of perceived persecution. It's not real, Karraster. It's an illusion by the same entity that lured Eve to choose the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. You're falling for the same con.

It's not about knowing good and evil; it's about knowing your God and receiving His Life. Knowledge of good and evil doesn't change you; Christ in you changes you.

-JGIG

The tree of knowledge of good and evil served the purpose of the tree of life but was created to serve that purpose to a lessor spirit, that of man and woman. Now we have to take of the same tree as God the tree of life. You receiving HIS that is from HIM HE from the beginning is unclean to YOU.

 

[JGIG]

HRMers tend to take offense easily, as well, develop a bit of a victim complex, and some become paranoid of the world to the point of withdrawing to Messianic 'communities' in the bush.

You're not a target. The Enemy wants you to think that so that you'll feel justified in your belief system because of perceived persecution. It's not real, Karraster. It's an illusion by the same entity that lured Eve to choose the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. You're falling for the same con.

It's not about knowing good and evil; it's about knowing your God and receiving His Life. Knowledge of good and evil doesn't change you; Christ in you changes you.

-JGIG

It is about knowing and accepting all of God. You say Christ in you changes you, but we are saying the Christ and God are one. The changes has to be about the unity of scripture. The HS changes you, and that change has to be toward the unity of the One True God. What is opposed to that unity is not of God.

We receive His life when we know Him. If we will not open our hearts and mind to all of God, all His plan for our redemption, every bit of who God is, God can not know us.

The law was given in spirit and truth. If we say we accept the love of Christ, the salvation Christ offers , but we do not accept that God gave law to guide us, we are not accepting God as God is. The rituals are not part of the spiritual law. We do not need to accept them. But we must accept what is of God's plan for us.

And God's plan for mankind was never the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, but the Tree of Life.

Which one are you choosing?

-JGIG

 

[JGIG]

The tree of knowledge of good and evil served the purpose of the tree of life but was created to serve that purpose to a lessor spirit, that of man and woman. Now we have to take of the same tree as God the tree of life. You receiving HIS that is from HIM HE from the beginning is unclean to YOU.

[video=youtube_share;Skwgk9duVaU]http://youtu.be/Skwgk9duVaU[/video]

 

[Grandpa]

It is about knowing and accepting all of God. You say Christ in you changes you, but we are saying the Christ and God are one. The changes has to be about the unity of scripture. The HS changes you, and that change has to be toward the unity of the One True God. What is opposed to that unity is not of God.

We receive His life when we know Him. If we will not open our hearts and mind to all of God, all His plan for our redemption, every bit of who God is, God can not know us.

The law was given in spirit and truth. If we say we accept the love of Christ, the salvation Christ offers , but we do not accept that God gave law to guide us, we are not accepting God as God is. The rituals are not part of the spiritual law. We do not need to accept them. But we must accept what is of God's plan for us.

That law was given to bring you to Christ. When you come to Christ and He changes you the Holy Spirit is grown inside you. That Holy Spirit produces fruit.

Which of those fruit would ever cause you to disobey any of the spiritual law?

You are pitting your own work against the work of the Holy Spirit and saying you must work 6 days and the Holy Spirit gets only one day. I would rather give the Holy Spirit all 7 days. I don't understand why everyone doesn't feel this way. I guess because I already know where my work got me and compared to where the Lords work got me I might as well throw mine away...

 

[Grandpa]

Once you've gotten past your own works and can start to see the work of the Lord Jesus in your life and those around you, I suppose Hebrew Roots could be quite a blessing.

But for those who are prone to working at the law in their own strength and those who think they will be extra blessed by living like the jews I suppose these Hebrew Roots are just an extra burden that you must go to the Lord to remove.

 

[jag1977]

2 TreeS of Life of New Jerusalem

HE SHE
HIM HER
HIS HERS
I I
ME ME
MY MY
YOU YOU
YOUR YOUR
YOURS YOURS
THY THY
THOU THOU
THEE THEE


Tree of Life of Eden

HE
HIM
HIS
THY
THOU
THEE

Tree of Life of Creation

HE
HIM
HIS

 

[danschance]

The Law-keeper's mantra is that those who rest in Grace do so in order to sin more. What you don't get is that Grace gives us the freedom to not be bound by sin. Because we walk in Grace, we don't want to sin. Grace teaches us to say no to ungodliness (Titus 2:11-14). Law stirs up sin, the power of sin is in the Law, and Law bears fruit unto death (Rom. 7, 1 Cor. 15).

For freedom Christ has set us free . . . ​

Grace leads to obedience; Grace leads to holiness; Grace leads to good Fruit.


-JGIG

Isn't that silly? The law lovers actually claim we chose grace so we can sin unabashedly. What a childish claim! I am going to murder my neighbors, have several drunken orgies and burn down some historical buildings just so grace can increase. How absurd! Paul address this sort of wild belief in Romans 5 and 6. Apparently those chapters are missing or unread in the nomian bible.

I have posted many times that Christians are under the law of Christ and then they simply get amnesia and start posting this bizarre diatribe that we are "lawless", over and over again. It boggles the mind how far they will stoop to keep this absurd fantasy going.

 

[Tintin]

Isn't that silly? The law lovers actually claim we chose grace so we can sin unabashedly. What a childish claim! I am going to murder my neighbors, have several drunken orgies and burn down some historical buildings just so grace can increase. How absurd! Paul address this sort of wild belief in Romans 5 and 6. Apparently those chapters are missing or unread in the nomian bible.

I have posted many times that Christians are under the law of Christ and then they simply get amnesia and start posting this bizarre diatribe that we are "lawless", over and over again. It boggles the mind how far they will stoop to keep this absurd fantasy going.

Sounds like fun! (no, I'm kidding) What silliness!

 

[danschance]

Are you now saying that the ten commandments are binding? That we should listen to the law as it was given to Moses? That the old covenants are of God? That when Christ fulfilled what God had planned from the beginning it was a fulfillment, a completion of what had always been and would always be? That when we are told that we should listen to the HS lead us to the spiritual law, instead of the rituals, that it did not cancel the written law? Are you sure that you agree to these things?

Red you are changing the subject. You made some absurd claims that many outside of the HRM do not know the Father and Christ are one and other claims. What you have posted above, does not answer my concerns. Instead it is a new yarn spun that is not scripturaly based.

To answer your question, No, I do not follow the Mosaic laws. The old covenant is the former covenant and now we are under a New covenant. I study the OT to see glimpses of Christ thru it. The entire bible is not about law. It is about Christ and what He did for me.

 

[RedTent]

Red you are changing the subject. You made some absurd claims that many outside of the HRM do not know the Father and Christ are one and other claims. What you have posted above, does not answer my concerns. Instead it is a new yarn spun that is not scripturaly based.

To answer your question, No, I do not follow the Mosaic laws. The old covenant is the former covenant and now we are under a New covenant. I study the OT to see glimpses of Christ thru it. The entire bible is not about law. It is about Christ and what He did for me.

You are not thinking things through at all. If the Father and Christ are one, and the son would never do anything against the Father. yet you say you are against the Mosaic law, against any old covenant. The entire bible is about our redemption, and you are against how law works in with that. And, knowing you, that will make you say that I believe I can create my own salvation. Anyone who can create their own salvation would be able to create the world, I didn't create the world.

 

[RedTent]

Once you've gotten past your own works and can start to see the work of the Lord Jesus in your life and those around you, I suppose Hebrew Roots could be quite a blessing.

But for those who are prone to working at the law in their own strength and those who think they will be extra blessed by living like the jews I suppose these Hebrew Roots are just an extra burden that you must go to the Lord to remove.

Surely you are not promoting to not work at the law or not reading and learning about God? When you go to the Lord in prayer, or you give love and caring, or anything in response to the Lord in your life, is it in your own strength? Would you like it if someone acted toward you as you act toward others for doing all you can to know and understand your Lord, saying it was denying Him, and only doing it in your own strength?

 

[crossnote]

Why are you and so many others so quick to assume one is professing to live under the law. I thought it inclusive in what I have always said to understand the foundation is the faith of Abraham in Jesus Christ Yeshua.

Are people so terrified of recognizing the holiness of the law as to reject their own teachings and faith.

How many times some of you will say, "I try not to sin, but I know I am forgiven?" If you know you sin, then you are observant of the law.

I have never asked anyone to observe laws that cannot be in force at this time, but the commandments of the Father, Jesus, are still quite in effect. You or any may teach against any of them, but remember the Master teaches us whoever teaches against one of the least of these laws will be least in the Kingdom.

The law is Holy and we are to learn the wisdom from the law. Jesus is the only One who obeyed all of the laws perfectly, and He did this for all who call upon Him in spirit and truth.

No one is doing Him service by calling what He made Holy to be profane. Learn true grace by learning which laws are to be obeyed when possible. You all do not klll, you honor your parents, you have no other God before you................and so on. When you break any of the forementioned you have sinned, therefore you have broken a law, and you are forgiven, providing you truly desire to be forgiven. Otherwise you become a wanton sinner without grace. Bless you all in Yeshua.

My reference in that post is strictly in reference to our spiritual forefather, Abraham, and all the writings provided by our loving Father, and they begin with Genesis.........

nice skirting of the issue.I am talking of the Mosaic Law. You must keep them as a whole. Do you? Do you keep the least of them? I don't mean try.If you broke one point, one iota or tittle, you are guilty of ALL.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

nice skirting of the issue. ai am talking of the Mosaic Law. You must keep them as a whole. Do you? Do you keep the least of them? I don't mean try.If you broke one point, one iota or tittle, you are guilty of ALL.

Amen, I love how people claim we must follow law when they can not even do it themselves. Unless of course the think they are, in which case they have lied to themselves and do not understand the law.