Salvation Not Possible Without Works

[homwardbound]

I do still have sin in my life. The willful sinner the bible speaks of one who does it without sorrow, sadness, conviction, and no need to repent because they feel they are doing nothing wrong.

Do you not get it, God does just love you, whether one sins or not, and hopes us to respond to this love and trust God to show us how to walk uprightly, putting no confidence in our flesh, and is where one transfers from death to life in the resurrected Christ
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

If one does not beleive this, then how can one be this?

 

[homwardbound]

To willfully and repeatedly sin is dangerous now salvation can be lost at any point o.ce you are saved there is a citizenship we must take and to be absolutely sinless is imposible but we must walk as lambs to the slaughter daily confessing and truly walking in repentance the book of psalms even speaks on this subject but at a point in a believers life they will be near perfect not by self power but by the holy Ghost and the word combined in their lives i am a witness that this is true for what is impossible for man is very possible for God

When Christ said to the disciples with man it is impossible, it was the answer to their ? that asked Christ seeing to enter heaven an impossibility under Law, as they saw that rich man walk away sad, in Matthew 19.

And then Christ said right after that but with God, Father, all things are possible.

So waht was he talking about, was it him going to the cross and taking away the Law that shows one's sinfulness?

And why would he do that while we all are were yet sinners die for us?
So we get even busier at trying to be perfect in and under Law?

Or to give us new life in Spirit and truth by his resurrection, dead to sin through him, be believing him?
So Father can do what? Live only in us, or through us as Father did do this in Christ did he not?
What makes anyone think this has changed, since he has not changed, the same today, yesterday and forever in what?
Love and Mercy to all. Today is the day you think to either respond and be thankfully overjoyed, or get busy in to be saved or to stay saved as if God is a liar
The sooner one gets this truth that God does just love them, the sooner the new llife begins to manifest in them, you think?

1 John 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.

[h=3]Ephesians 3:16-18[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]16 [/SUP]that he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; [SUP]17 [/SUP]that Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, [SUP]18 [/SUP]may be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

 

[homwardbound]

What you fail to understand is that it is NOT about God's love. He loves all men. He makes no distinctions.
It is about man. Does man return that love. Whether he does love or not love, is not dependent upon God.

Response is key I see that I am the creation not the creator and any of my self works are a creation to get someone to respond to me, making me the creator, when I am not

 

[homwardbound]

Although I had fellowship with them and had that ripped out of me, I was never saved to begin with? So if one is having a fellowship with God and walking in the Light, that is not a guarantee of having salvation?

Flesh does do a real good job in masquerading as being good does it not? I mean flesh has learned from the best, the evil tree that wants attention to self as the center and all others to orbit around them
I remember this and could be this again as Flesh is flesh and is at war with God to this very day. We are all in unredeemed flesh
So to me to die daily to me daily is the escape and not for to take God for granted and use Christ as my scape goat.
Oh well I am forgiven, and grabbing onto the ideas of since I am forgiven I can just do
Rather in appreciation fro this great Salvation in the all sins are forgiven by Father through Christ, and so we approach the throne in confidence, Christ our propitiation for any and all sin ever committed.
And then ask Father in confidence to teach us how to say no to unrighteousness, and then by Faith walk as Christ walked in 100% dependence on Father to do whatever work needed to be done through him

Hosea 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

Today I see this modernized as to why are you asking for more forgiveness over and over again, you are forgiven finalize this please through my Son, No forgiveness ever without the shedding of blood and Christ was is the last shedding of blood, is he not? So since no more blood is going to be shed and no more sacrifices and Christ is not coming back to shed anymore blood or make anymore sacrifices is he?
Can we now thank Christ and talk to Father, who knows views us through Son as what? This I am talking about is from Father's view not yours, yours or yours

So since, if you believe Father, and Son, know Father is not a liar and Christ did do all Father told him by Faith
Is the very same for us to do is it not?

 

[homwardbound]

Yes, my friend. It did happen. You see, He did not leave me, I left Him. He did not kick me out, but after that unthoughtful act, I told Him that if that was love, I wanted nothing to do with Love. Boy, why did I say that!!!!! I kicked Him out, you see. Don't get me wrong, as I saw Him leave, I asked Him to return. Hmmm, as He turned around to look at me, He said no.

But, you are right, He did not kick me out, I kicked Him out and to this day, how I miss that fellowship.


Correct, He was faithful and did not kick me out. But trust me, I kicked Him out and with my own eyes, His Spirit I did see leave me. Yet you say that if I lost faith in Him that He would not kick me out, although it is faith which does save. So, are you saying that I am saved even though I would not have faith in Him? No, my friend, my faith saves me, although I have no such delightful existence in the Light as I once had.


No, it is not so. He loved me, I wanted nothing to do with love if love was defined by that unthoughtful act inflicted upon my heart.

Consider my words, He is faithful, but we can always kick Him out though.

Yet Cultz, after kicking him out, does he really leave? You are in the Faith today right?
So truthfully Father never left did he?
On the very fist day one believes and Father knows who do and who do not right?
We are right then and there sealed, and Father will bring us to 100% humility, doing as justly as possible, and when not doing justly, loving Mercy and being humbled, as Paul talks of in 2 Cor 12
God never leaves us in the condition we were in the first day of belief, does he? If one is left then that one has not as of yet believed God, even though one can put on a good show as if they are saved, when they are not, and fall into all kinds of tragedies like King Nebuchadnezzar did, you think, and after I think it was 11 years of chewing the cud of the ground, he finally submitted to God, and God did not cause this to be, Nebuchadnezzar did this to himself, yet one can be a beleiver and still be in turmoil for a reason as Joseph was put in prison for how many years, and it was for what purpose?

 

[homwardbound]

then why would the New Testament spend so much time talking about the 'chosen' and 'predestined' and 'elect' if none of these words ring true?

If God chooses all, then only a fool would say that any are really chosen. The Apostle were not fools.
How can we call ourselves "God's Chosen People" if there are people going to hell that God also chose?
This isn't just logic, this is Scripture.

I would suggest going to a Bible website, and search the words: elect, predestined, chosen, and called.
Your eyes will be opened to how often the writers use these words, and how they use them in context.

Are not all called and few chosen? The few chosen I see would be the ones that respond to the call in belief and God trains us as to what the war is all about:
Galatians 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

I see you and Ken exchanging truth from each of your views, or from each others angle you are viewing from

 

[homwardbound]

Yes, this language is in there. There is also language that supports the other views as well. I don't think I'll ever really rest on either view, rather, use both of them when they are applicable in my life. When I fail and sin, I will remember that God has loved me and has selected me, that helps lift me up and gives me confidence. And when I'm in front of sin, I will remember that God holds me accountable and this means I should use self control. I should apply my freedom to choose and not act foolishly. Both of these viewpoints have applicable uses.

My freedom has always been and accomplished in using I believe God to do this or that, that I want to be done in me and not of self, so when it does take place Father through Son gets all the credit, just what I see, me getting out of the way daily
And as long as me the unredeemed flesh is out of the way, Father can't be stopped ever.
Like as when Paul was put in prison and wrote he counts this as all joy, in the midst of tragedy. now that is Faith
And even said there are those that preach Christ in sincerity and those not. That he glories in both, because Christ is preached,
So this is maybe how to keep our unredeemed flesh out of the way?
I tell you evil hates Glory, Hallelujah does it not Sister?

 

[homwardbound]

I know that experience was true, please do not tell me that it was not. I, yes I, I myself, saw Him leave EG. I saw it. God desires those who freely chooses Him, He will not force Himself on one if they do not desire to continue that fellowship.

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[/QUOTE]

Absolute true here Brother, will God still hang around in the bushes to bring you to see truth, will not his Spirit be saying to you, please stop, I will not force you to stop what you are doing ever, In that is the ultimate love and sacrifice given to us all through Son, it is done
And the plea has gone out to all to beleive God or not. If you believed and then changed your mind and decided not to believe, as an Ex: all the incongruities in trying to be perfect and can't
please from me read through this:
F. J. Huegel:Bone of His Bone.Table of Contents

Father Brother never actually leaves us, and never stops loving us, even though there are great parlor tricks from the enemy that is real convincing that Father did waht you claim he did?

Father seals us the first day we beleive and does not force us ever, he remains and lives in the new heart he gave you on the first day you believed period, and so no matter where you go, Father is right there with you pleading with you to see what you are doing as not beneficial. Now you might see where Paul comes from when he say all things are free to do, being not under law, yet all things are not beneficial are they?
How many things have you stopped doing when you saw them as not beneficial? See Father's work of love to you in you?

 

[danalee]

My freedom has always been and accomplished in using I believe God to do this or that, that I want to be done in me and not of self, so when it does take place Father through Son gets all the credit, just what I see, me getting out of the way daily
And as long as me the unredeemed flesh is out of the way, Father can't be stopped ever.
Like as when Paul was put in prison and wrote he counts this as all joy, in the midst of tragedy. now that is Faith
And even said there are those that preach Christ in sincerity and those not. That he glories in both, because Christ is preached,
So this is maybe how to keep our unredeemed flesh out of the way?
I tell you evil hates Glory, Hallelujah does it not Sister?

Oh and he speaks. My whole life right now is me thinking about God's work in my life and how I've come to a place where I'm in solitude, it makes me sad, and I've worked hard in reading about why God does not spare the rod. This is for me and has come done on me by my Father who is chastening me. I need the faith of Paul right now. Yes, evil hates glory. I've said some prayers for my deliverance today as well. Thanks for your words, I love coming here and learning. I need it.

 

[homwardbound]

I Cor 13:13. Of the three faith, hope, and love, it is love that is the greatest. If we do not love God, we will not ,cannot serve Him, we don't serve Him, we cannot be saved. It is not complex to understand.

And one can't love God without first seeing God's love toward and to them found in Son?
1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.

how can I love until I know I am loved beyond measure?

 

[homwardbound]

Where do you believe Hitler is, or will be when put in front of the judgment seat ?

I am not the Judge God is and any conjecture I make of this is not what, you or anyone is called for?
God is the Judge and I do not even Judge myself
1 Corinthians 4:4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord

I know my conviction on this and what is deserved to Hitler, as well as me

Now maybe take a gander over at the Ninevites, led by Nimrod and were evil, very, and Jonah ran form going there to tell them the shortest sermon ever told as he came out of the fish ( Nineveh worshiped the fish) And Jonah comes out with the message turn or burn.
They repented and Jonah was pissed over this and had conversation with God that picks up in chapter 4. Where God deals with Jonah's self-righteousness in being mad that God gave them Mercy

Are you or anyone going to be mad if God gives or gave Hitler Mercy and or even Judas?
Who is the Judge you all, our conjectures in trying to discern truth or God's truth period as God sees fit,
Praying we all get this and are humbled by this?

 

[homwardbound]

What is your scriptural definition?

Mine is: if I may, thanks
GODJUSTLOVEUSALL, the complete full interpretation is God does love us, why else would Father have sent Son, since no one is born perfect, since Adam fell?
We all were without hope, all

 

[homwardbound]

Do you believe that he will be thrown in the pit to be burned up at judgment ?

I believe that god will do with each as God will do, for i know I deserve the same, no matter how bad or good I have ever been. Do you think the decision is in our court, or God's alone?
And did he not say to not worry about others as the one disciple said where is John going, and was answered to not be concerned about others why?
Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Romans 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
James 5:9 Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door.

Love you Brother, it is unconditional and that is what causes mankind to repent, where force only makes it worse
Hitler did what Hitler did and I personally am at shame over it happening, yet I trust Father all in all, not knowing why a lot of things have taken place except by mankind's free will in destroying each other over their own wanting to live and kill to live as they want to.
This is what God came to earth for to redeem mankind, and through the cross this is done as the disciples wrote they have the message of reconciliation, so answer the call and be reconciled to Father thanking Father for Son and believe to recieve and see

 

[homwardbound]

Well lets see what the scriptures say, in revelations it says those that believe and follow Christ are part of the first resurrection, in which the second death has no power over. I would agree with you that God determines that, but the bible is God's word. So in God's word it says some one like Hitler will be thrown in the pit as well.

Here is the part that will blow your mind: Hitler was born and raised Catholic, he was baptized and went through confirmation, accepted and followed Jesus Christ calling himself a Christian and supporting Christian movements. It wasn't tell he was older that he turned his back on Jesus and tried to get rid of Christianity by installing his own religion.

And this is showing me he never really believed to begin with and went through the regime to fool the people.

And this he did even the USA. And then when they saw waht his true motive was they did not support him any more

And the devil comes as an angel of light to fool even the very elect. And USA saw finally as they were being entrance into Hitlers plan
As when Jim Jones did what he did and so on and so forth, waht a shame, yet people will us whatever they can use to deceive, and have for many years, yet god's Mercy keeps pouring out in hopes for us to get it as in the Movie "OH GOD" that George Burns put out in the Cinemas years ago
Just love each other and stop harming each other for your own gain

 

[homwardbound]

No God does not disown anybody. This is why you can not believe in salvation lost because you always want to put it on God. Put the fault where it really belongs on man.

I have shown multiple times over the past few days by scripture, study reverence rather it come from study bibles or well known biblical scholars who spend most of their days studying scriptures in original text and translated text as well as asking God in their search for knowledge. They all disagree with the once saved always saved theology, showing in multiple scriptures how this is not biblical.

The fruits of Hitler plainly show he did not believe as he said he did and no confirmation from any religion of man, is the result one is or not saved. Only God knoweth and that is well for me, and you too, and anyone else, you think?

 

[homwardbound]

If he never came to Christ before he died, (which I highy doubt he did) He will be delivered to Christ for judgment.

Yet if he did and Father gave him Mercy, would you be angry?

 

[homwardbound]

I seem to remember a man by the name of Saul who was just as evil as hitler. Who when Christ confronted him, he came to his senses, If he died three days after this, he would be in heaven today, Luckily for us, God allowed him to live and write over half the NT.

Not sayign this happened to Hitler. we can not know. Just saying to use Hitler as an example to prove their false gospel of works is not very valid. Because all over scripture we have men like him who came to Christ and did many wonderful things for Christ.

Yes, and walked away because they were never of the Apostles that believed unto salvation, not by works rather by belief, even though they did works as the resault of their Faith
The Mystery Paul explained.
Do works don't do works, when and how to do works and whose works are these when I do them?
Only Father can reveal this to us, if we start of with "I" beleive and then delve into the word and ask for truth and just want to know God period, for no other reason, and God knowing this reveals himself in love beyond measure
The world goes to war
Christ went to the death and did not fight back
He rode in town on a donkey, not a Horse see the difference I pray so
Victory is in the resurrected Christ not the dead Christ?

 

[homwardbound]

This is to acknowledge your post, that I read it. There were many things I agreed with, just 2 points I disagree with.

My Brother, it will all be solved when we get to Heaven.

I am glad to hear from Father you will be there because you beleive, even if you do not think so as you go in this world back and forth like a wave does in the sea, God is Faithful to save you Brother period
We are the creation not the creators

 

[homwardbound]

is there a running definition of works in this thread, or are we going back and forth thinking we are talking about the same thing

Rhetoric is important

It gets sidetracked for a while, yet I see each of us actually posting and not getting mad, maybe at times it might start to, yet God's love prevails

 

[homwardbound]

This is OT, the Christian dispensation had not even began, get your dispensations right.



It appears you believe God will do everything for man and man has to do nothing, so any unsaved man is because God faltered becoming culpable.

Still playing "TWISTER" I see, right foot on red, your spin next
I just had to say that, because no matter what is said or not said, the bottom line ? I have for you is:
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DO YOU BELIEVE IN CHRIST AS YOUR SAVIOR?