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"Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?"
There is Protestantism, Catholicism then there is the truth. Where do you stand?
You see if one rejects the truth then inquity wroughts and increases then there is the danger of an unbalanced gospel if one has faith That person would do whatsoever the Lord Jesus asks of us , then comes the verse "why do you call me Lord and do not what I say "?
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Callmebadger
Guest
I had a marijuana and a cocaine habit not to forget a sexual addiction and the Lord freed me just like that , now no desire no thoughts nothing , I prayed in the spirit all the time then it happened the Lord came set His hand upon me and was freed I litter ally heard the chains come loose and drop this is a real testimony .
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phil112
Guest
Huh? All I did was remind you that ticking off a billion people is not anything to lose sleep over. I made no comment on the accuracy, or lack of it, about the statement.
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Kerry
Guest
The cross is an offence to many people. Because the cross is the only thing that God will accept and people are trying so hard with out the cross and it's offensive to them.
It's far easier and smoother to slip into ritualism, whereas we need to be transformed inwardly by God's grace.
why do i quote it??
because it's the Truth!
but what is foremost? His own mercy
no one who does not believe Jesus is the Son of God, come in the flesh, crucified and resurrected, but is baptized, sees the kingdom of God. anyone that receives Him will be baptized and receive the Holy Spirit - even if it's not in a mikvah and speaking in tongues.
part of our trouble is thinking "baptism" - which is a transliterated Greek word, not a translated one - is the simple act of being dunked in or sprinkled with water. baptism is a public initiation into a faith or system. when you swear/affirm to tell the truth, whole truth and nothing but the truth in a US courtroom, you're "baptized" into the court. they just don't happen to follow the Jewish tradition of water immersion in this cast. we "baptize" our presidents into office by making them swear to uphold the constitution amid pomp and ceremony.
see, baptism isn't an indefinite term. you don't just randomly "baptize" someone. you must be baptized into or unto something. we are baptized into Christ. if you truly receive Him, you become baptized into Him, and the Faith, and He is faithful to send His Spirit. if you receive Him, you love Him, and if you love Him, you obey His commands - Christ Himself never said "be baptized" - but He told His apostles to baptize in His name, and in the name of the Father and Holy Ghost. what this means is that they were sent to pledge those that believed into the Faith in the Father, through the Son and by the Spirit. He didn't just send them out to "baptize" but to make disciples, teaching, baptizing into something - into the name of God, by His mercy!
"water baptism" itself is a public pledge, an initiation, a declaration. it is what it means that saves - it means i believe.
Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.
Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
(Matthew 10:31-33)
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Kerry
Guest
And it's a lot easier than one might think. Self righteousness is a slippery, sneaking thing that it's hard to keep down and most don't realize it.
Sir, if you would kindly look at my post, you would see that I was responding to water baptism. I haven't the foggiest notion what you are chewing me out for. Did you confuse me with someone else?
I just happen to agree with the statement you made above, and it wasn't because I forgave you either.
I am told that I am a nice guy, so tonight, I will be nice... but only once.
it's not anyone's claims, but the principle that offending the whole world for the cause of Christ is nothing, that they're calling you out on. i agree with SeaBass though that i don't like to call myself a member of a denomination, but a follower of Jesus - like i keep telling him, i'm not a "calvinist"
i do love you, SeaBass. ♥
imperfectly as it is.
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Callmebadger
Guest
Offense*, and those people you're offending are other Christians. As in they are Christ-followers, whom died on the cross.
it's not anyone's claims, but the principle that offending the whole world for the cause of Christ is nothing, that they're calling you out on. i agree with SeaBass though that i don't like to call myself a member of a denomination, but a follower of Jesus - like i keep telling him, i'm not a "calvinist"
i do love you, SeaBass. ♥
imperfectly as it is.
There's nothing wrong with not following a denomination. I, as well, do not bound myself to a specific denomination. I couldn't care less how someone practices their religion, as long as they are saved while they're doing it. However, simply calling a billion of our brethren (not the whole world), "wrong" because they practice differently and not explaining the rationale doesn't sit well with me.
"Truth" is a delicate word, and a very strong claim - it is indeed a claim. The only "truth" we know is what the bible gives us. Let us not succumb to the fallacy that is self-righteousness.
John 3: 5 doesn't mention water baptism, And according to the Greek, The "Water" in v5, Is the word, John 15: 3. Eph 5: 26.
James 1: 18. 1 Pet 1: 22--23.
There are three Christian baptisms, And the "ONE" baptism in Eph 4: 5, Is the rebirth, See 1 Cor 12: 13.
The Greek Bible texts prove that water baptism doesn't save, And the Bible proves it as well.
The disciples were baptised in water, but they weren't saved, Until some of them were in John 20: 22, The rest in Acts 2.
Paul was saved three days before he was baptised in the Holy Ghost, And that was before he was bpatised in water.
The Gentiles in Acts 10, were saved, baptised in the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues, But they weren't baptised in water at that time.
An understanding of the whole Bible proves that water baptism doesn't save.
The translators have mislead us, Because the Greek Bible texts says water baptism doesn't save.
I don't believe that I tried to make John 3:5 figuratively. I compared John 4:10 and John 7:38.39. I quoted John 3:5,6 to show you that being born of water refers to physical birth NOT water baptism.
Again, How can dunking in water create within someone the new man, that new creation in Christ? How does water make you a child of God?
In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical.
In Acts 2:38, repentance is the means of receiving forgiveness and baptism is the symbol (in reference to) true repentance and forgiveness.
Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord. *What happened to baptism?
Acts 10:43-47 - To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins. While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered, "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" *What happened to baptism in verse 43? Water baptism followed believing, receiving the Holy Spirit and conversion.
Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?" When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life. *What happened to baptism?
Acts 15:8,9 - So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. *What happened to baptism?
Faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38; 3:19; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9). *Perfect Harmony*
Peter went on to say, "not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ." The Greek word “antitupon,” as used in I Peter 3: 21, is “an adjective, used as a noun,” and denotes, in the NT, “a corresponding type,” being “said of baptism.” “The circumstances of the flood, the ark and its occupants, formed a type, and baptism forms “a corresponding type,” each setting forth the spiritual realities of the death, burial, and resurrection of believers in their identification with Christ. Noah was saved by the ark “through (via) water.” Water was not the means of their salvation, but the ark. The ark is what both delivered and preserved them. Christian baptism pictures salvation and reveals, symbolically, the gospel. The word “antitupon” identifies baptism as a figure. So baptism does not save us in any sense other than as a figure. It is the figure of “the death, burial and resurrection of Christ by which we are actually saved.” A symbol is not the reality but a picture of the reality.
Ephesians 4:5 - one Lord, one faith, one baptism.
1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. This is clearly Spirit baptism, not water baptism.
Notice in John 4:10, Jesus said "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water." Water baptism is not living water by which we drink into one Spirit. You seem to have trouble making a distinction between Spirit baptism and water baptism.
Again, just as the eight people in the ark were "saved THROUGH water" as they were IN THE ARK. They were not literally saved "by" the water. Hebrews 11:7 is clear on this point (..built an ark for the SAVING of his household). Are you trying to change Hebrews 11:7? Who came in contact with the water and did it save them?
The Greek word for "figure" is "antitupon." Vine, in his Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, defines the word as "a corresponding type." He says, "It is not a case of type and antitype but of two types, that in Genesis, the type, and baptism, the corresponding type." (Vol. 2, page 96). Cremer's Lexicon says the word signifies an "image or similitude." Thayer's Lexicon defines it as "a thing resembling another." The flood symbolizes baptism and baptism symbolizes salvation. The flood was a figure of baptism in that in both instances the water that spoke of judgment (in the flood the death of the wicked, in baptism the death of Christ and the believer). Baptism is a symbol of salvation in that it depicts Christ's death, burial and resurrections and our identification with Him in these experiences. In reality, believers are saved by what baptism symbolizes--Christ's death and resurrection. You continue to confuse the symbol with the reality. You also disregard the ark (a type of Christ) as saving Noah and his family and Spirit baptism in Ephesians 4:5 and 1 Corinthians 12:13.
Peter said that baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not the part which saves you), "but an appeal to God for a good conscience" (that is, as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism). We could paraphrase Peter's statement by saying, "Baptism now saves you--not the outward physical ceremony of baptism but the inward spiritual reality which baptism represents."
False. You have been misled. The genitive in the Greek text is correctly translated as the pledge of a good conscience, not for a good conscience. It is a pledge made from a good conscience. Baptism is a pledge to God made from a good conscience. It is that aspect of baptism (what is signified, “the answer of a good conscience toward God”) rather than the external rite (the sign, the application of water) that saves. The symbol and the reality are so closely related that the symbol is sometimes used to refer to the reality and that seems to be what is confusing you. A FLOOD OF CONFUSION.
Remission of sins and their appeal to God for a good conscience came through repentance/faith, which was then signified (yet not procured) in baptism. Also see Acts 3:19; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9.
But what actually saved Noah and his family during the separation?
Again, the genitive in the Greek text is correctly translated as the pledge of a good conscience, not for a good conscience. It is a pledge made from a good conscience. Baptism is a pledge to God made from a good conscience.
Again, the genitive in the Greek text is correctly translated as the pledge of a good conscience, not for a good conscience. It is a pledge made from a good conscience. Baptism is a pledge to God made from a good conscience.
For someone that throws around "Greek says this" and "Greek says that" should know that "υδατος" in John 3:5 is "water"
can you show one place in the bible that "υδατος" is not translated water? it is used at least 82 time in 6 inflections and all are translated "water"
1 Pet 3:20 there is no doubt "water" is the intent of the meaning and the Greek under it is the same "υδατος" as John 3:5 :
1 Peter 3:20 (TR)
απειθησασιν ποτε οτε απαξ εξεδεχετο η του θεου μακροθυμια εν ημεραις νωε κατασκευαζομενης κιβωτου εις ην ολιγαι τουτ εστιν οκτω ψυχαι διεσωθησαν δι υδατος
1 Peter 3:20 (NKJV) who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.
John 3:5 (TR)
απεκριθη ο ιησους αμην αμην λεγω σοι εαν μη τις γεννηθη εξ υδατος και πνευματος ου δυναται εισελθειν εις την βασιλειαν του θεου
John 3:5 (NKJV) Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
The argument is not does water mean water - it is the meaning of water in the context of John 3:5 - Is it speaking of water baptism? We relate v5 with v6 we can see what is meant - That which is born of the flesh is flesh; WATER That which is born of the Spirit is spirit; SPIRIT - self explanatory in the immediate context.
It can also mean the following which would tie it into "living water".
First there is no article in the Greek, either with the word "water" or the word "spirit". It reads ex hudatos kai pneumatos of water and pneuma. It is the figure of speech hendiadys by which two words are used, only one thing is meant. Here the one thing is "water:" but the Lord emphasises the fact that this water is not to be material as it was under the law, but spiritual as stated in Exek. 34. The Figure is best represented idiomatically in English thus: "Except a man be born of water, yea, spiritual water. (ex. Acts 13:13 "oxen and garlands" means "garlanded oxen" and therefore ready for heathen sacrifice. 2 Sam. 20:19 "a city and a mother" i.e. a mother city, or a metropolitan city.) Word Studies on the Holy Spirit E.W. Bullinger