If you die a second after baptism, you guaranty go to heaven

[Jackson123]

Catechism of the catholic no:
978 "When we made our first profession of faith while receiving the holy Baptism thatcleansed us, the forgiveness we received then was so full and complete that there remained in us absolutely nothing left to efface, neither original sin nor offenses committed by our own will, nor was there left any penalty to suffer in order to expiate them. . . . Yet the grace of Baptism delivers no one from all the weakness of nature. On the contrary, we must still combat the movements of concupiscence that never cease leading us into evil "[SUP]523


Let analyzed Catechism of Catholic no 978

a. Baptism cleansed us

b. the forgiveness is full nothing left no original sin no committed sin.

It mean according to catholic believe we can conclude that baptism make person qualified to directly to heaven without passing through purgatory.

But baptism not delivers from weakness nature, mean if you are porn addiction, baptism not eliminate it.

so if you still alive after being baptize, it will produce new sin that not cover by the ritual of baptism.


[/SUP]

 

[EyezOnGod]

Baptism doesnt save you only Jesus can. He was our sacrificial Lamb whom cleaned our sins white as snow...baptism doesnt wash your sins away and make you clean. Jesus does...He already did. God bless!

 

[ob77]

When Christ talked with Nicodemus about gaining access to heaven, Christ said that a man must be born in Heaven, and then born of the breaking of the waters. He said one cannot go back to Heaven, if one did not come down out of it. That which is spirit, is spirit, that which is flesh , is flesh. Flesh cannot inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. If one was created in the terrestrial plane, one must stay in that plane. If one is begotten of the Father in the celestial plane, to that is what one returns to, if one came from there originally.

 

[resurrection33]

Catechism of the catholic no:
978 "When we made our first profession of faith while receiving the holy Baptism thatcleansed us, the forgiveness we received then was so full and complete that there remained in us absolutely nothing left to efface, neither original sin nor offenses committed by our own will, nor was there left any penalty to suffer in order to expiate them. . . . Yet the grace of Baptism delivers no one from all the weakness of nature. On the contrary, we must still combat the movements of concupiscence that never cease leading us into evil "[SUP]523


Let analyzed Catechism of Catholic no 978

a. Baptism cleansed us

b. the forgiveness is full nothing left no original sin no committed sin.

It mean according to catholic believe we can conclude that baptism make person qualified to directly to heaven without passing through purgatory.

But baptism not delivers from weakness nature, mean if you are porn addiction, baptism not eliminate it.

so if you still alive after being baptize, it will produce new sin that not cover by the ritual of baptism.


[/SUP]

We are heaven as long as we behave ourselves.

 

[Jackson123]

When Christ talked with Nicodemus about gaining access to heaven, Christ said that a man must be born in Heaven, and then born of the breaking of the waters. He said one cannot go back to Heaven, if one did not come down out of it. That which is spirit, is spirit, that which is flesh , is flesh. Flesh cannot inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. If one was created in the terrestrial plane, one must stay in that plane. If one is begotten of the Father in the celestial plane, to that is what one returns to, if one came from there originally.

What is your point brother?

Do you believe baptism ritual cleanse your sin from you are born til the time of baptism or not?

 

[ThomistColin]

I agree with the Catechism.

 

[Jackson123]

I agree with the Catechism.

Brother,

So you agree that ritual baptism have power to forgive all you sin, original sin and committed sin?

whereas the dead of Jesus on the cross only forgive original sin (according to catholic)

Is That mean baptism ritual is more powerful compare to the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross?

 

[p_rehbein]

So water baptism does the trick? Well, WHY EXACTLY did Jesus take upon Himself the form of man and die on the cross? Seems like a waste..........or, at least of no avail............

 

[parablepete]

So water baptism does the trick? Well, WHY EXACTLY did Jesus take upon Himself the form of man and die on the cross? Seems like a waste..........or, at least of no avail............

Now, its my turn to ask a qustion or two.

Why, is baptism even mentioned? Why did Peter, Mark, and Paul believed it saved? I Peter 3:21, Mark 15:16, Acts 22:16?

Why didn't Jesus save Paul on the road? He told him to go to Damascus and there ALL things would be told him what he needed to do. Acts 22:10 Please look it up. I"ll get it for you.

Acts 22:6 And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light round about me.[SUP]7[/SUP]And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
[SUP]8[/SUP]And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest.
[SUP]9[/SUP]And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
[SUP]10[/SUP]And I said, What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do.
[SUP]11[/SUP]And when I could not see for the glory of that light, being led by the hand of them that were with me, I came into Damascus.
[SUP]12[/SUP]And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there,
[SUP]13[/SUP]Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him.
[SUP]14[/SUP]And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
[SUP]15[/SUP]For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
[SUP]16[/SUP]And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

By the way this is the way we call on the Lord also.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Catechism of the catholic no:
978 "When we made our first profession of faith while receiving the holy Baptism thatcleansed us, the forgiveness we received then was so full and complete that there remained in us absolutely nothing left to efface, neither original sin nor offenses committed by our own will, nor was there left any penalty to suffer in order to expiate them. . . . Yet the grace of Baptism delivers no one from all the weakness of nature. On the contrary, we must still combat the movements of concupiscence that never cease leading us into evil "[SUP]523


Let analyzed Catechism of Catholic no 978

a. Baptism cleansed us

b. the forgiveness is full nothing left no original sin no committed sin.

It mean according to catholic believe we can conclude that baptism make person qualified to directly to heaven without passing through purgatory.

But baptism not delivers from weakness nature, mean if you are porn addiction, baptism not eliminate it.

so if you still alive after being baptize, it will produce new sin that not cover by the ritual of baptism.


[/SUP]

I need - and by God's grace - have the blood of Christ to cleanse me.

Baptism is a symbol.

 

[p_rehbein]

I'm speaking of water baptism...........specifically.........and I don't believe any of the Apostles thought water "saved." I'm fairly sure they understood that it is the precious blood of Jesus Christ that cleanses us..........and HE IS OUR SALVATION.

Goodness..........water is just water.........

Now, why did Jesus say to water baptize? Well, that has been answered here many times, but, hey.......

Water baptism is symbolic.............it's purpose is to serve as a "witness" to the Church and to the world that a person has become a believer in and disciple of Jesus Christ.

The Spiritual rebirth of salvation that occurs within a persons heart is invisible to others.............

As well, water baptism is the first act of obedience to the commandments of Jesus........or, it should be.......

Water baptism is important for all new believers ............. BUT IT IS NOT SALVATION!

(ok, my 1,999th time to have this discussion............so I'll leave it there)

God bless

 

[parablepete]

I'm speaking of water baptism...........specifically.........and I don't believe any of the Apostles thought water "saved." I'm fairly sure they understood that it is the precious blood of Jesus Christ that cleanses us..........and HE IS OUR SALVATION. Where there is no blood there is no forgiveness of sins, I agree that Jesus is the reason. But, do we do what he says or what we think?

Goodness..........water is just water.........No one is saying there is something in the H2O. Do you remember the walls of Jerico falling down? They went around them 7 times and blew a trumpet. However in Hebrews he said they fell by FAITH.

Would 3 times have worked? How about using a Bull Horn? Its the same Parallel, If you have FAITH you will be Baptized, without it you are lost. Baptism ONLY? NO! Faith ONLY, NO! Confession ONLY, NO! Repentance ONLY? NO! Obedence Only? NO! Works Only? NO! Christ ONLY? NO! God ONLY? NO! Does just the fact that Christ lived gives everyone salvation? You don't believe that. There are things we must do to please God.

Now, why did Jesus say to water baptize? Well, that has been answered here many times, but, hey.......There is only ONE baptism today for the Christian, its in the name of Christ for the forgiveness of Sins. At that same time Christ adds us to his Church Acts 2:47 If you are not going to looks these scriptures up and take this serious, I can't help you, bottom line! I am not saying I CAN SAVE YOU. I know better. I want you to see where you missing the boat.

Water baptism is symbolic.............it's purpose is to serve as a "witness" to the Church and to the world that a person has become a believer in and disciple of Jesus Christ. You have been lied to. Don't believe me. Read the book of ACts, if you need to 10 times. I Acts its talking about the Eunuch Acts 8:35 He was reading from the book of Isaiah, you can look in Isaiah and you won't find anything about baptism. But, when they cane to a certin water he asked if he could be baptized, how did he know about that? It wasn't from Isaiah? Phillip taught him about it. I am teaching you. Will you execpt it? No one has in 16 years? Do you want to believe what you been lied to about? What your Mom and Dad did? Or do you want the TRUTH? It will set you FREE!

The Spiritual rebirth of salvation that occurs within a persons heart is invisible to others.............WELL, That sounds Right!

As well, water baptism is the first act of obedience to the commandments of Jesus........or, it should be.......Is there a Spitituall baptism also?

Water baptism is important for all new believers ............. BUT IT IS NOT SALVATION! You are RIGHT its not salvation, but, you can't have salvation with out it. I know you will be thinking of the Theif on the Cross. The Church had not been established yet, and Jesus had not died. So his WILL was was not in effect. Did you know that is why Jesus didn't save Paul on the Road because his WILL was inefffect. Toss that in for FREE!

(ok, my 1,999th time to have this discussion............so I'll leave it there)

God bless

I hope this falls on a good heart and OPEN mind. A closed minded person can learn nothing. That is probaly what your thinking about me. :-(

 

[crossnote]

Baptism no more saves a 'christian' as circumcision saves a 'Jew', it takes faith in the Messiah, ...or what good is baptism if there is no faith in Him?

 

[Jackson123]

With all the respect and love, I will be as honest as I can to express my humble felling. Not in the intention to hurt other felling but to love other by tell what I believe will help other to consider if this teaching endanger his or her salvation.


Look like the maker of this law tray to stripe God authority slowly and systematically, so people not fell it.

Catholic teach Baptism cleanse original sin and committed sin. Also for catholic baptism is require for salvation

Mean 1.more than the sacrificed of Jesus in the Cross.

2. require Church and priest for salvation. how you perform this ritual without priest, can lay catholic perform this ri
ritual.

So basically these teaching is to elevate the institution equal to Jesus or if possible more.

But she do it slowly and systematically


Look the whole picture of her teaching.

Pope is vicar of Christ, mean replacement of Christ==> equal to Christ.

See the destination?

It is coup d'etat

Exactly like what Lucifer did.

Who is behind this teaching ?

I see his finger print here. the finger print of Lucifer.

 

[Ugly]

Now, its my turn to ask a qustion or two.

Why, is baptism even mentioned? Why did Peter, Mark, and Paul believed it saved? I Peter 3:21, Mark 15:16, Acts 22:16?

Why didn't Jesus save Paul on the road? He told him to go to Damascus and there ALL things would be told him what he needed to do. Acts 22:10 Please look it up. I"ll get it for you.

Acts 22:6 And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light round about me.[SUP]7[/SUP]And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
[SUP]8[/SUP]And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest.
[SUP]9[/SUP]And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
[SUP]10[/SUP]And I said, What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do.
[SUP]11[/SUP]And when I could not see for the glory of that light, being led by the hand of them that were with me, I came into Damascus.
[SUP]12[/SUP]And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there,
[SUP]13[/SUP]Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him.
[SUP]14[/SUP]And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
[SUP]15[/SUP]For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
[SUP]16[/SUP]And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

By the way this is the way we call on the Lord also.

You still didn't answer the original question. You just avoided having to answer it by turning around and posting questions to take the focus off of a good point you had no answer for. You didn't resolve anything, you just hid yourself from having to respond to a valid point. That's a sign of a weak point of view.

 

[notuptome]

I agree with the Catechism.

Over the clear teaching of the bible??? Do you really believe that the apostles taught salvation by water baptism?? What then of the blood of Christ?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Jackson123]

978 "When we made our first profession of faith while receiving the holy Baptism thatcleansed us, the forgiveness we received then was so full and complete that there remained in us absolutely nothing left to efface, neither original sin nor offenses committed by our own will, nor was there left any penalty to suffer in order to expiate them. . . . Yet the grace of Baptism delivers no one from all the weakness of nature. On the contrary, we must still combat the movements of concupiscence that never cease leading us into evil "[SUP]523


I am going to repeat my warning to my beloved catholic brother and sister, not that I am big guy or smarter or what so ever. Just because I am a small guy that happen want to learn how to love other as He command us to do.


This teaching above is a declaration that the key to heaven is in the church hand.

If baptism is requirement to go to heaven than baptism is the key to heaven.

Brother and sister, Jesus is the one who hold the key, not human or church.

Your church may argue and said Yes Jesus is the owner of the key but he give to Peter.

Brother and sister Jesus give the duplicate key to every christian in the sense faith come from hearing of the word of God. And we all who know how to save is hold the key. To witness or to share the gospel mean to pas on the key to other and is up to other whether they accept the key or not. but at least we tray to pas on the key to every body.

We hold the duplicate Jesus is the owner of original key.[/SUP]

 

[notuptome]

978 "When we made our first profession of faith while receiving the holy Baptism thatcleansed us, the forgiveness we received then was so full and complete that there remained in us absolutely nothing left to efface, neither original sin nor offenses committed by our own will, nor was there left any penalty to suffer in order to expiate them. . . . Yet the grace of Baptism delivers no one from all the weakness of nature. On the contrary, we must still combat the movements of concupiscence that never cease leading us into evil "[SUP]523


I am going to repeat my warning to my beloved catholic brother and sister, not that I am big guy or smarter or what so ever. Just because I am a small guy that happen want to learn how to love other as He command us to do.


This teaching above is a declaration that the key to heaven is in the church hand.

If baptism is requirement to go to heaven than baptism is the key to heaven.

Brother and sister, Jesus is the one who hold the key, not human or church.

Your church may argue and said Yes Jesus is the owner of the key but he give to Peter.

Brother and sister Jesus give the duplicate key to every christian in the sense faith come from hearing of the word of God. And we all who know how to save is hold the key. To witness or to share the gospel mean to pas on the key to other and is up to other whether they accept the key or not. but at least we tray to pas on the key to every body.

We hold the duplicate Jesus is the owner of original key.[/SUP]

See this is where romanism and I part company. Baptism does not impart grace. The communion elements do not impart grace. There are no rituals, rites or traditions that impart grace.

God and God alone imparts grace. God imparts grace to those who call upon His Son for forgiveness of sin. Those who rely upon the traditions of rome and the teachings of the pope are eternally lost.

Even the pope does not claim to have a certainty of salvation. The pope expects to go to purgatory to finish paying for his sins. He fails to recognize that even one sin will require all of eternity to be paid in part and can never be paid in full. Only Christ could pay so great a price as mans sin demanded.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Jackson123]

See this is where romanism and I part company. Baptism does not impart grace. The communion elements do not impart grace. There are no rituals, rites or traditions that impart grace.

God and God alone imparts grace. God imparts grace to those who call upon His Son for forgiveness of sin. Those who rely upon the traditions of rome and the teachings of the pope are eternally lost.

Even the pope does not claim to have a certainty of salvation. The pope expects to go to purgatory to finish paying for his sins. He fails to recognize that even one sin will require all of eternity to be paid in part and can never be paid in full. Only Christ could pay so great a price as mans sin demanded.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

yup. to replece/to vicar grace with ritual is Vicar of Crhist/replecement of Christ.

It is one of the title of the Pope. It is heresy.

Nothing in the world good enough to replace Jesus.

 

[ThomistColin]

I believe Peter was the rock, I believe that God perfects nature allowing it to work in the supernatural, and I believe that to only believe that miracles are always noticeable and come only through supernature as if God cannot use nature is heresy and a limitation on God.