Logic vs The Bible

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Pozessed said:
Yes, morals of countries are subjective until some group decides to make a law that determines those morals objective. Please think of a law that was not subjective at one point.
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You are missing my point. All moralities that come from a man are subjective, but we compare them all to the real, objective moral law. People can be wrong about morality in the same way they can be wrong about answers in math, but that only proves the existence of the correct answer.
 
Pozessed said:
No offense, but you're starting to fit into my list of people who only post things to offend others. That is also the definition of a troll.
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make it plain then:
which is greater, the word of God or the tautologies in your mind?


 
pozessed,

your name fits you well,
your game fits your smell.
 
Sirk said:
So God... who wants to be loved by freedom of choice, would enforce the quality of perfection on that which He wants to love Him by choice?
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I don't have an answer to that honestly. I can't really speculate what God wants or desires from us. I'd imagine its love and happiness. but His wants are outside of logic. I'm just making the claim that for something to be perfect it must be absent of imperfections.
I can't even say "how" we are acting perfectly, only that if God is perfect, according to his will so are we.
 
Animus said:
God does not defy logic. We might have a misunderstanding of what things are logical, but that is our own faults. God can make chickens grow from trees; just as easily as you can imagine it. But you cannot imagine two and two apples equaling five apples; this would be nonsense by definition, and isn't even a real thing. Saying that God defies logic is like saying he can "ceajdkfjdsa" because he can do anything. But I just typed in random characters, that's not a verb, so it cannot be done in the way that you perform an action.

Sometimes we might think we can imagine things when we cannot. I believe that this is a big problem that results from people trying to "put themselves in God's shoes". They say, "Well if God is perfect he should just do this", but for all we know that might be like saying that he should make 2+2=5, which is just as silly as saying that he should "ceajdkfjdsa". This usually comes about on the question of free will. People try to say that God should have given us free will, but then made us perfectly obedient, because, well God can do anything. But the two things are mutually exclusive, and so this too would be like asking him to make 2+2=5, it's just nonsense.
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Human logic. Can God make a 4 sided triangle or make something heavier than he can lift? I've always thought the sort of paradox's you propose to be a waste of time. If making the earth and the universe in 6 days and putting life back into a smelly corpse is logical to you...more power to you. God surpasses all human understanding.
 
Animus said:
You are missing my point. All moralities that come from a man are subjective, but we compare them all to the real, objective moral law. People can be wrong about morality in the same way they can be wrong about answers in math, but that only proves the existence of the correct answer.
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I can't think of any objective morality that didn't start from the logic of men.
 
Sirk said:
Human logic. Can God make a 4 sided triangle or make something heavier than he can lift? I've always thought the sort of paradox's you propose to be a waste of time. If making the earth and the universe in 6 days and putting life back into a smelly corpse is logical to you...more power to you. God surpasses all human understanding.
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If we aren't supposed to strive to understand God, why do religions exist?
 
Pozessed said:
If we aren't supposed to strive to understand God, why do religions exist?
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Thats what the Bible is for....it is a collection of His thoughts and studying it is learning to think as He does which is learning about Him and His ways....furthermore, why would He tell us anymore than we need to know? He has given you enough information for you to choose Him.
 
Sirk said:
Thats what the Bible is for....it is a collection of His thoughts and studying it is learning to think as He does which is learning about Him and His ways....furthermore, why would He tell us anymore than we need to know? He has given you enough information for you to choose Him.
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You contradicted yourself in the post I was responding to then...
 
Pozessed said:
I don't have an answer to that honestly. I can't really speculate what God wants or desires from us. I'd imagine its love and happiness. but His wants are outside of logic. I'm just making the claim that for something to be perfect it must be absent of imperfections.
I can't even say "how" we are acting perfectly, only that if God is perfect, according to his will so are we.
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Unbelievers never can understand what God desires.

The very act of unbelief means you are actively ignoring God -
the God who has surrounded you with His creation,
through which He is CONSTANTLY moving and speaking.

If you are actively ignoring God, you can't possibly understand anything He wants you to know...
because you are refusing to listen.
 
Sirk said:
please explain
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You said "God surpasses all human understanding", then you went on to claim "The Bible is made for humans to understand God".

That is a contradiction, you can't surpass ALL human understanding, and have human understanding.
 
maxwel said:
Unbelievers never can understand what God desires.

The very act of unbelief means you are actively ignoring God -
the God who has surrounded you with His creation,
through which He is CONSTANTLY moving and speaking.

If you are actively ignoring God, you can't possibly understand anything He wants you to know...
because you are refusing to listen.
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Yea... I'm not an unbeliever though. I actually believe many things the Bible portrays. Thanks for the presumption though.
 
Pozessed said:
You said "God surpasses all human understanding", then you went on to claim "The Bible is made for humans to understand God".

That is a contradiction, you can't surpass ALL human understanding, and have human understanding.
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I also said that He has given us all we need to know...Just like the greyhound race dog...if he caught the rabbit he would not know what to do with it and he would never race again.
 
Sirk said:
I also said that He has given us all we need to know...Just like the greyhound race dog...if he caught the rabbit he would not know what to do with it and he would never race again.
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It's kind of irrational to think man can catch up with God. I don't see why that is even part of our context.
 
Pozessed said:
It's kind of irrational to think man can catch up with God. I don't see why that is even part of our context.
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You're arguing that we should be able to catch up with God. You're trying to have it both ways now.
 
Sirk said:
Human logic. Can God make a 4 sided triangle or make something heavier than he can lift? I've always thought the sort of paradox's you propose to be a waste of time. If making the earth and the universe in 6 days and putting life back into a smelly corpse is logical to you...more power to you. God surpasses all human understanding.
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But this is exactly what I am talking about; making the earth in 6 days is not illogical. Logic cannot be so easily applied to a lot of the things people try to apply it to. If A implies B is true, and A is true, then we can conclude that B is true. No set of statements like this could prove that the Universe cannot be created in 6 days. Nobody even attempts to do such a thing. And if they did, it would no doubt start out with a statement A that cannot be proven. Raising a body from the dead is not illogical either. We know that at some point non-living things became alive, but once again, just as easily as you can imagine a corpse coming back to life, it could be done by something that is all powerful. But this is a different thing then making two mutually exclusive things happen at once, which cannot be imagined, as it is just nonsense, and meaningless to even say.

A 4 sided triangle is nonsense by definition. A triangle is defined as an object with three sides and two lines coming from each vertex. If it has 4 sides it's not a triangle anymore. You can call it a triangle, but all you've done is make the definition of a triangle more ambiguous. God cannot create something so heavy that he cannot lift it, because such an object is not real, and any rock you might be imagining is just as silly as the 4 sided triangle or the statement 2+2=5. It's just not a real object, even in the abstract sense. The words used to form the sentence that attempt to describe it are as much nonsense as the string "asdfnkls". It's like saying, "Imagine a rock that is bigger than the largest rock", you probably imagined a rock, but it's not bigger than the largest rock, because the sentence "Imagine a rock that is bigger than the largest rock" is asking you to imagine something that cannot exist by definition. This is the proper application of logic.
 
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