Does water baptism save us

eternally-gratefull · May 5, 2014

Your right, Everyone was saved by faith alone in the OT. Not by any work. so why do we want to add a work to the NT saints, When Christ paid the price in full?
As for romans 6, that is not a representation. that is a literal event, When God literally baptizes us into Christ. We should not symbolize everything, if it just represents what Paul said in romans 6, then it is useless. if it is a literal event, that it is the power of God for salvation.

If they were not saved, and washed, how did they have gifts of the spirit. God can not enter an unclean thing, the washing must take place prior to God the Holy Spirit entering and sealing a person.

eternally-gratefull · May 5, 2014

Elizabeth619 said:

Yes there is one.

Which is it. which is it that has the power to save

The baptism performed By God himself.

or the one performed by man in water

Is a person saved before they allow themselves to be washed by the hands of men (water baptism) or when God himself baptizes one into the death, burial and body of christ? then they are obedient to allow themselves to be baptised by man in water?

eternally-gratefull · May 5, 2014

Elizabeth619 said:

Yes,

A symbol of what God was going to do for us.

Can you wash yourself. or a man wash you? Or do we rely on God himself to wash us? Who has the power?

mailmandan · May 5, 2014

Linda70 said:

Amen! The evidence is overwhelming that these Gentles believed, received the gift of the Holy Spirit, spoke in tongues, magnified God, and were saved and a part of the body of Christ before they were water baptized. Certain Jews may have wanted to forbid them from being baptized because of their unacceptance of the Gentiles, but Peter clearly states that SURELY NO ONE CAN REFUSE. These Gentiles were clearly SAVED BEFORE WATER BAPTISM and the Holy Spirit was proof of this.

Romans 8:9 - But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. If one has received the Holy Spirit they "belong" to Christ. To belong to Christ does not describe the condition of a lost unbeliever but a saved believer - such was the case of these Gentiles before they were water baptized.

Galatians 4:6 - And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, "Abba, Father!" This does not describe the condition of a lost unbeliever but a saved believer - such was the case of these Gentiles before they were water baptized.

1 John 4:13 - By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit. Because they received the Holy Spirit, these Gentiles abided in God and God abided in them. To abide in God and to have God abide in you does not describe the condition of a lost unbeliever but a saved believer - such was the case of these Gentiles before they were water baptized.

Before they were water baptized, these Gentiles spoke in tongues and magnified God (Acts 10:46). This New Testament gift is for those "in" not "out of" the church, which is Christ's body (Colossians 1:24). Therefore, by having this New Testament gift, these Gentiles were already "in" the body of Christ before they were water baptized.

We do not receive the gift of tongues, which is only for the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:4-12), without first receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit (indwelling, regenerating presence of the Holy Spirit). We don't receive "a" gift of the Holy Spirit until we first receive "the gift of the Holy Spirit" and these Gentiles clearly received the gift of the Holy Spirit before they were baptized.

Jabberjaw · May 5, 2014

saved1975 said:

I have shown you what the bible says and that the Greek says the same thing, but you have to disagree because it goes against your man made doctrine. The bible clearly says what saves and no one thing saves, it clearly says of the things required to be saved there is one baptism that is salvific (Eph 4:5) and that baptism is by water done by disciples commissioned by Jesus, not done by Jesus, but like faith alone will not save you, neither will baptism alone.

saved1975 said:

It is a symbol, but not of salvation, it is a symbol of the death burial and resurrection, it is (like in the days of Noah when 8 were saved by water, the water cleansing the earth of sin, the antitype is now that water washes our sins away 1 Pet 3:20-21) it is spiritually putting you in contact (providing you have faith, repentance, and confess Christ is the son of God) with the cleansing blood of Jesus Christ, the blood that remits sin,

Revelation 1:5 (NKJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood,

you people have sinners saved, the bible does not.

Jabberjaw · May 5, 2014

Cobus said:

Ehp 4:5 says there is one baptism that saves, there is more than one baptism or we would not be having this discussion. as you will soon see you have your theology all out of sort.

Cobus said:

The "one" that is salvific, as we shall soon see it is of water, the one Jesus commissioned all disciples to do.

Cobus said:

John 4:1-2 (NKJV) [SUP]1 [/SUP] Therefore, when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John [SUP]2[/SUP] (though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His disciples),

I love how you people cherry pick verses, these two verses clearly show proof against your false doctrine of faith only, you agree baptism is required to be saved, you try to claim that it is baptism of the Spirit, yet Jesus is the ONLY one that can baptize with Spirit, not disciples...

John the baptizer said he (John, a disciple) baptized with water, but Jesus would baptize with HS and Fire :

Matthew 3:11 (NKJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

The "He" is Jesus, notice who baptized with water, and who baptized with spirit, now lets go back to John 4:1-2 :

John 4:1-2 (NKJV) [SUP]1 [/SUP] Therefore, when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John [SUP]2 [/SUP] (though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His disciples),

Jesus had the Holy Spirit place this verse in here just for people like you who would try to claim that baptism of the Holy Spirit saves, it says Jesus Himself "did not baptize, but His disciples", so the baptism is with water, not Holy Spirit because the baptism of Holy Spirit only Jesus can do, now lets see what was commissioned:

Matthew 28:19 (NKJV) [SUP]19 [/SUP]Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Those who are "discipled" are to be baptized; they were not to baptize "all the nations," but those of "all nations" who were "discipled." "Baptizing them" means those who receive the teachings. "Them," in the Greek, is in the masculine gender "autous," and cannot have for its antecedent "nations," "ethna," because "nations" is in the neuter gender; hence, only those of the nations who are made disciples by preaching the gospel are to be baptized. The baptism is to be done "into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." The name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit means the combined authority of the Godhead. To be baptized into this is to be brought by baptism into actual subjection to the combined authority of heaven. To be baptized into the name of these three brings one into covenant relation with the Godhead. Baptism is, therefore, not only a sacred act of obedience, but it brings one into the fullness of the blessings of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Christ is a universal Savior and his gospel is a universal gospel; obedience to him brings one into all the blessings which God has to give to man.

Jesus told his disciples to baptize, Jesus did not say "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, so I can baptize them".

Cobus said:

See what I said above in this post, see who was said could baptize with the Holy Spirit (Matt. 3:11), then see who did the baptizing (John 4:1-2) and who was commissioned to "go" do the baptizing (Matt 28:19) then you can see which of the two baptisms saved the house of Cornelius, the one salvific baptism of Eph. 4:5 is done here in Acts 10:47

Cobus said:

How convenient you leave out 1 Cor 1:15-16 :

1 Corinthians 1:15-16 (NKJV) [SUP]15 [/SUP] lest anyone should say that I had baptized in my own name. [SUP]16 [/SUP] Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas. Besides, I do not know whether I baptized any other.

Paul was addressing a situation where people thought their baptism was better depending on who baptized them, Paul said in verse 16 "Yes, I also baptized the housold of Stephanas" so he DID baptize, he was glad he didn't baptize any others of whom he was talking to so that they could think better because he baptized them...

See to Acts 19:1-5 where he baptized 12 others.

Cobus said:

Jesus didn't baptize, you proved that above (actually He did, once in Acts 2 to the 12 Apostles, and once to the house of Cornelius, fulfilling the prophecy of Joel, once this prophecy was fulfilled there was no longer need, God showed Peter and the Gentiles he was no respecter of person, this is the lesson of Acts 10 and 11.)

His Disciples baptize(d) with water.

Cobus said:

It was in Acts 8, and you can see that the Spirit was given in portions, Simon received the same portion as you or I and why we cannot perform the signs (and don't tell me you can because you cannot), Simon seeing this sinned, trying to purchase a larger portion (when he saw by the laying on of hands by the Apostles was this portion of Holy Spirit given, not Holy Spirit Baptism as was done to the Apostles and the house of Cornelius ONLY).

saved1975 · May 5, 2014

Alligator said:

If you read my posts on the subject, You will see that the Bible doesn't teach salvation by water baptism.

saved1975 · May 5, 2014

Jabberjaw said:

I have shown you what the bible says and that the Greek says the same thing, but you have to disagree because it goes against your man made doctrine. The bible clearly says what saves and no one thing saves, it clearly says of the things required to be saved there is one baptism that is salvific (Eph 4:5) and that baptism is by water done by disciples commissioned by Jesus, not done by Jesus, but like faith alone will not save you, neither will baptism alone.

It is a symbol, but not of salvation, it is a symbol of the death burial and resurrection, it is (like in the days of Noah when 8 were saved by water, the water cleansing the earth of sin, the antitype is now that water washes our sins away 1 Pet 3:20-21) it is spiritually putting you in contact (providing you have faith, repentance, and confess Christ is the son of God) with the cleansing blood of Jesus Christ, the blood that remits sin,

Revelation 1:5 (NKJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood,

you people have sinners saved, the bible does not.

Salvation is death burial and resurrection, When a person gets saved, They have died to self, buried the old man and raised a new person.
And water baptism is our testifying to the fact.

saved1975 · May 5, 2014

Elizabeth619 said:

Peter preached the gospel to the Gentiles, Acts 10: 34--43, And while Peter was still speaking, They believed, got saved, baptised in the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues, BUT they weren't baptised in water at that time.

You can't be baptised in the Holy Ghost and speak in tongues unless you are saved... And you can't be baptised in water unless you are ALREADY saved.

Jackson123 · May 5, 2014

saved1975 said:

yup, and we don't know if he or she testify truthfully or lie.

In the baptism ceremony, the pastor ask a your accept Jesus as your God and savior? then he or she answered yes.

But in his heart he or she don't believe, he baptized just for please his fiance as a requirement to be accept as future husband.

In this case baptism ritual become a Lie ritual. And liar go to hell. Than baptism not only not make save but make people go to hell.

Cassian · May 5, 2014

Still going round and round after 500 years, 569 posts.
If scripture is one's authority, why do you make it so seem so vague?
If the Holy Spirit is leading, how come it has already taken 500 years to get somewhere?

Cobus · May 5, 2014

Jabberjaw it was acts 8 correct. But the commission you relay to .. God and baptize IN THE NAME .... Not WATER IN THE NAME.... Jesus did not say go and baptize in water... He said Go and Baptize in THE NAME... ONE NAME.... Do you know what this means?

Ok you say it is in the NAME of the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost... but it is in water.... So what is THE NAME... THE ONE NAME of Father (YHVH) Son (Jesus Christ) And Holy Ghost (NAME?)?

Obviously you were waterbaptized... now were you baptized in THE NAME of all three? What is THE ONE NAME you were baptized in? Share with us please...

And God said REPENT and be baptized... Are you still repenting or are you done before you were baptized? Or did you get the order wrong...Baptize and be repenting? See your Gospel does not work the one I have does.... Yes Paul baptized a few people but how many did he preach the Word too and called them HIS TESTOMONY... Way more that a few people. So that makes Paul a NON baptizer in my book.

True only Jesus can baptize with Spirit, but he does so in ALL HIS APPOINTED APOSTLES.... And why would an apostle baptize with water if he can with Spirit... Same as Jesus why would Jesus baptize with water if He does with Spirit...

Do you knwo what is the ONE NAME of God! God Son, Spirit and Father? If you know what that Name is share it with us, and use Scripture please. Also show what that NAME also will do for us... And NO H2O can do this for us, NO WATER hydrogen 2 mol and Oxygen one mol... There might be OTHER living water that might do it for us,, what is THE NAME?

Jabberjaw · May 5, 2014

saved1975 said:

You said "You can't be baptized in the Holy Ghost and speak in tongues unless you are saved" and I want you to prove that to me with scripture?

Prove to me that Baptism of the Holy Spirit saves.

Atwood · May 5, 2014

baptized in the Jordan River, like Naaman the leper, who was reluctant.

I recall hearing great preacher J. Vernon McGee badmouth the Jordan as a rather yucky river.
So I am curious. How did you find it and the quality of its water?

Jabberjaw · May 5, 2014

Cobus said:

Yes, all three, "in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost",

It is sad you don't know what it means to do something "in the name of", it means by the Authority of...

Now if the Holy Spirit is what you are baptized in, why would you need authorization of the Holy Spirit?

I have shown with scripture that water baptism is the one salvific baptism of Eph 4:5, it is the one the disciples are not only "authorized" to do but "commanded to do" (Matt 28:18-19)

Cobus said:

I knew there was something wrong with your book,

I first believed, I repented, confessed Christ is the Son of God before men, and was baptized having my Lord wash away my sins, I came up out of the water a born again (risen) Christian...

In your theology you have no room for repentance, you think you were saved the moment you believed, if you're saved the moment you believed what do you have to repent of?

Your theology has men saved while still in their sinful state, I have shown with scripture how water baptism puts us into contact with the cleansing blood of Christ, you have yourself saved before remitting sins...

Your theology is unbiblical and extremely flawed.

Cobus said:

You admit only Jesus can baptize with the Holy Spirit, that is a good thing, now you must understand "who is baptizing", In Matt 28:18-19 Jesus having "full authority in Heaven and on earth" commissioned disciples to make disciples :

Matthew 28:18-19 (NKJV) [SUP]18 [/SUP] And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. [SUP]19 [/SUP] Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

He did not say "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, I will baptize them", he commanded his disciples to baptize and the only baptism they can do is of water, the one salvific baptism of Eph 4:5 and those disciples are to make disciples the same way.

Cobus said:

I showed you, here is is again :

Matthew 28:18-19 (NKJV) [SUP]18 [/SUP] And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. [SUP]19 [/SUP] Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Atwood · May 5, 2014

Over and over, salvation is offered to man based on only 1 action for the man to take = trust Christ as Savior (believe, have faith in Him). Water baptism is never said to save in the Bible. Since the baptism of the Spirit puts us into the Body of Christ which secures the co-crucifixion of the Christian's Old Man (1 Cor 12:13; Romans 6), we may call baptism of the Spirit, salvific. But this is not something the man does, but what is done to him.

While there is but one duty laid on man to secure salvation (faith),
God did/does many things in providing our salvation including redemption, propitiation, reconciliation/katalagē, regeneration, transformation.

Jackson123 · May 5, 2014

The three known by the fruit. This what scripture said. the fruit of the Holy spirit is
Galatians 5
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

So if baptism really save then a person who went to baptism must bear that kind of fruit above.

It easy to prove otherwiseol.On)
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Polish police on Monday arrested a Roman Catholic priest suspected of sex offences against children in the Dominican Republic, state prosecutors said. The 36-year-old priest, who served in the central city of Santiago on the Caribbean island and is identified only as Wojciech G for legal reasons, will be formally questioned and charged tomorrow, said Dariusz Nowak, a spokesman for prosecutors in Warsaw. "We received documents from the Dominican Republic that, among other things, will allow us to press charges," Nowak told reporters. Wojciech G flatly denied any wrongdoing in anOctober 2013 interview with Polish...more »

SeaBass · May 5, 2014

saved1975 said:

Paul taught baptism saves, Rom 6:3-6; Gal 3:27; 1 Cor 1;12,13; Col 2:12-14
Paul was water baptized himself, Acts 22:16
Paul water baptized others, 1 Cor 1:14,16
Paul was under Christ's great commission as all disciples are to go, teach and baptize, Mt 28:19,20

SeaBass · May 5, 2014

saved1975 said:

Jesus said "born of water" in Jn 3:5 which is water baptism.

Water is literal water (Greek - hydor) in Jn 3:5

JeremiahJr · May 5, 2014

Baptism is an act (work) of faith, and a public display of the individual's intent and desire (See Romans 6). The act itself, obviously, does not save anymore than water washes away sins, but it would be folly for anyone who truly loved Christ to decline this "rite of passage" since it was one of His Commands (Matt. 28:19). Grace (unmerited favor) is not introduced in the New Testament, as so many seem to think. Neither is it foreign to the Old Testament, since the whole Covenant is a product of "unmerited favor". The opportunity for "sliding" back into the world and falling from grace is always available. Consider Hebrews 10:26-31.

Does water baptism save us

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