Does water baptism save us

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Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
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Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

The household of Cornelius received the gift of the Holy Ghost BEFORE they were water baptized.
The gifts were a sign to Peter that they were legit and from God, and right after Peter began speaking they received the gift. They hadn't even heard the whole message and couldn't be legitimately saved. They werent saved when they received the gift. You don't have to just hear the gospel. You have to understand it too.
 
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Kerry

Guest
Eliz I love you and you make me raff. God bless you.
 
A

Alligator

Guest
Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

The household of Cornelius received the gift of the Holy Ghost BEFORE they were water baptized.
But receiving the Holy Spirit and being saved are two different things in this passage.
 
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Linda70

Guest
But receiving the Holy Spirit and being saved are two different things in this passage.
Not so....when a person receives the Holy Spirit, that person is born again/regenerated/saved.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Ephesians 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
 
Feb 21, 2014
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Not so....when a person receives the Holy Spirit, that person is born again/regenerated/saved.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Ephesians 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Clearly, we were born again of the Spirit; the Lord Jesus does not indwell physically.
 
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Kerry

Guest
Y'all are talking salvation and have never once mentioned the cross, somethings wrong with that. I meant the cross is the core of salvation in fact it is the only way to get saved by having faith in the cross.
 
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Linda70

Guest
Y'all are talking salvation and have never once mentioned the cross, somethings wrong with that. I meant the cross is the core of salvation in fact it is the only way to get saved by having faith in the cross.
My faith and trust is in the Person (the Lord Jesus Christ) Who died on Calvary's cross and shed His precious blood for the sin of the entire world. I was baptized AFTER I trusted in that Person Who died on that cross, but that baptism didn't save me.

Nothing but the blood of Jesus!

Hebrews 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
 

Apostol2013

Senior Member
Jan 27, 2013
2,105
39
48
But receiving the Holy Spirit and being saved are two different things in this passage.
Well no one can really state who is saved and who is not but Christ but i will say this we must accept the whole Gospel not rejecting any of what is comnanded by jesus and the apostles along with the prophets for rejecying of the very doctrinal essentials is like unto a worst than an unbeliever , for it is written man cannot live off bread alone but by everyone of God's word living a life in the abundance of the Love of Christ have ye not heard be Holy for i am Holy , and further Jesus spoke , that the servant must be as perfect as his Master , therefore He is our Lord trully by our obedience this is How His love works now the mainstream allways reject the fact that the baptisms the communion the feet washing and many things do not matter . But I will clarify this "this is not what jesus is promoting at all ! , but rather what He is promoting is that the inside of us is clean in our thoughts and everything we do be holy and the bible gives a good clarification of holiness but nothing cannot be acomplished without His Holy gift as I am a witness of this that what we say shows in what we do that the Lords mercy abounds in us allways through obedience in Christ that this saying is not who we are but that our actions are synchronized with our speech a trully prophessed believer and not rejecting any of the commandments of Christ that He may not reject you but impart mercy allways that you endure the faith , and if we have faith we will ennact of all commandments laid by God its not that these things are not necesary for they are but what the Lord is imparting is a sincerity meaning that we are acceptant of all of Gods word . because if the inside of the cup is dirty then all we do is in vain , therefore we shall not be reprobates but therefore remain in truth and ill leave you in the peace of Christ , with a verse these people honour me with their lips but their hearts are so far away ,. These people say the love me but their actions speak otherwise . For these words Jesus told me one morning as i woke up .
 
A

Alligator

Guest
Not so....when a person receives the Holy Spirit, that person is born again/regenerated/saved.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Ephesians 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
if you will read the complete context of that passage it will tell you why the Holy Spirit was given in this case. It was to prove to the Jews that the Gentiles were also to be a part of God's plan.
 
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Kerry

Guest
Did Paul preach baptism to the gentiles or did he preach the cross. The result was that those who accepted Christ also received the baptism in the Holy Spirit just as Peter did and then they could not deny it.
 

Jabberjaw

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2014
1,039
7
38
Where does the Bible say water baptism saves??.
And don't say, Mk 16: 16, Because Jesus said, HE THAT BELIEVETH, Then he can be baptised,
The Greek says the emphasis for, "Saved", in Mk 16: 16, Is on the BELIEVING, not baptism, Didn't Jesus prove it??, He went on to say, "He that believeth not shall be damned".
Jesus didn't say, "He that isn't baptised shall be damned", Putting the emphasis for salvation on the Believing.
That is the poorest exegeses I have ever seen, The Greek and English say the same, the emphases is on "he", the verbs are the actions of the "he" and are "believeth" and "baptized" and just like the English the "και" <-- the Greek word "and" is not only the conjunctive particle, but logical and both on each side of it must be true to make "saved" true, just like the English.

and the second part of your argument moot because if one does not believe, then baptism cannot be done because as we shall see later, it is not cleansing of the filth of the flesh, it is as much spiritual as physical and why you fail to understand it, therefore "he" remember the "he" the one with the Greek and English emphasis? "he" will be damned.

And don't say Acts 2: 38, Because in the Greek there are subjects, verbs, persons and numbers, And the all have to agree in order to build a doctrine.
Now "REPEN YE", and "YE SHALL RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST", Agree in person and number.
But, "Be baptised everyone of you", is completely different in person and number to Repent ye, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Again the Greek emphasis for "Remission of sins", in Acts 2: 38, Is on the "REPENTING", Not baptism.
And don't say Acts 22: 16, Because the Greek emphasis for, "Washing away sins", Is on the,
"Calling on the name of the Lord".
We already (above) see you have no clue how emphases in Greek works, in the Greek, words can be moved around but the emphases does not change but that doesn't even matter in this case, here the emphases is "Ye" in the plural, it is what "they" were told to do when they asked the question "what shall we do?", the answer Peter gave (in the Greek and English) is "Repent ye" in singular, while "be baptized every one of you" is in the plural.

There is here also a change from the second to the third person; this change shows a break in the thought; the first thing to do is make a radical and complete change; this is done in repentance; then let each one be baptized "in the name of Jesus Christ." This is the same as the command in Matt. 28:19.

Also Acts 9: 6--17 tells us that Paul was saved three days before he was baptised in the Holy Ghost, And that was before he was baptised in water..
You have a lot to prove here, first prove he was baptized with the Holy Ghost 3 days before he was baptized, then you must prove he was saved by Holy Spirit baptism even if you could prove he was baptized as such, Paul was not at ease because he believed on the road, he would not even eat for three days until after he was told by Ananias what to do, he did not eat after he believed, he ate after he was water baptized.

And don't say, 1 Pet 3: 21, Because Peter didn't say baptism saves, He says baptism is only a figure, A symbol.
And the Greek backs him up, by saying water baptism is,
"An expression of our ALREADY salvation, Not the medium for salvation, A symbol of salvation, Not the cause of salvation.
And don't say Gal 3: 27, Because baptism in only the symbol of salvation, We put on Christ through the rebirth, Not water baptism.
PLUS, If baptism saves, Why didn't it save the disciples, As they were baptised way before Jesus died. See Jn 3: 22--26.
You and your Greek, do you even know Greek?

1 Pet 3:21 cannot be understood without 1 Pet 3:20 :

1 Peter 3:20-21 (NKJV) [SUP]20 [/SUP] who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. [SUP]21 [/SUP] There is also an antitype which now saves us--baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

I chose the NKJV because it uses almost a transliteration of the actual Greek word "αντιτυπον" ("antitupon").

Notice Verse 21 "There is also an antitype", this is in reference to "water" in verse 20, the antitype is like your face in a mirror, the same but opposite, in the time of Noah, like the water washed away the sins of the world, now the water washes (the antitype) our sins away, but then Peter (so people like you should not get this confused with taking a bath) continues with (not removal of the filth of the flesh) because this is not a physical cleansing, but a spiritual one done by the Spirit of God, putting you "Into Christ" and how you come into contact with "His Cleansing Blood" :

Revelation 1:5 (NKJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood,

You people do your best to put a sinner in a saved position!
 
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Feb 17, 2010
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baptism had nothing to do with salvation in Old Testament times. Baptism represents the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ as explained in Romans 6:3–4. It is only after the death of Christ that baptism was required for salvation.
Please give me the scripture that says the household of Cornelius were saved prior to being water baptized.

Alligator before I show how Cornelius received the Holy Spirit BEFORE he was baptized with water, I would like to ask you this....

We know Johs the Baptist said this....I baptize with WATER. But He that comes after me will baptize with SPIRIT.

Ok CLEARLY two type of Baptism.....
Now Eph 4:5 says ONE BAPTISM

Now sir here is my question to you.... If you had the choice of ONE BAPTISM what baptism will it be? WATER (h20) or SPIRIT?

And I did not make an END to waterbaptism.... JESUS DID! Let me show you how many people JESUS baptized with water.....
Joh_4:2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,) .... ZERO? Yes Not a single person. That is why there is only ONE Baptism.... Jesus did not START HIS BAPTISM YET, but did HE BAPTIZE WITHOUT WATER....

Look here... Cornelius and ALL Paul's followers that were baptized with the Holy Spirit.... Look here...
Acts 10:While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?


See they recieved the Holy Spirit BEFORE they were baptized.... There is your proof that WATER has NOTHING to do with salvation. NOTHING!

And here is the other proof... Paul came to save MANY Gentiles and His Gospel even saves many today, in the Bible. Yet Paul said this.... 1 Cor 1:17... For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
The power of God is NOT in water, but in BLOOD and SPIRIT.... Sorry my man you just have it wrong. Either you or Jesus has it wrong, I believe you are in the wrong. If Water baptism was important, Jesus would have BAPTIZED people with water. He did not I will not!

And in Acts 4 as I showed yo before. Philip baptized with water, but NO ONE RECIEVED THE SPIRIT YET... There is only ONE Baptism that saves,,,,, SPIRIT!
 
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Please show the Greek references to back up your claim instead of "Don't say...". Without evidence of your claim then this has no meaning. All it shows is your own interpretation with no evidence of truth.



I have shown you what the Greek says,
But you don't need the Greek, Because if you read the New Testament as a whole, you can see that water baptism doesn't save.

As for the Greek, You can check it up on the internet.
 
Apr 22, 2014
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Your words condemn you! You quote the Bible then, you deny the Bible verse which you just quoted; Is you brian short of a full load, or the fuses all burned out? Love Hoffco


To understand the Bible, you need to know when the translators have translated the scriptures correctly and when they have wrongly translated the scriptures.

I don't deny the original Bible, I see what the Old Testament Hebrew says, and what the New Testament Greek says.

That’s how I get the truth.
 
Apr 22, 2014
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As has already been proven to you, this is blatantly false.


No one has proved that water baptism saves, Because the Bible and the Greek prove it doesn't.
To say water baptism saves, is false.
 
Apr 22, 2014
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Naturally you do not want to hear any of those scriptures because you can't answer any of them.


I have given you the Biblical and Greek truth.
I can't make anyone believe it.
People have to get their own revelations.
 
Apr 22, 2014
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Why do you think no one in the Old Testament was saved? What requirements are you talking about? Also, the household of Cornelius were baptized.


The household of Cornelius were baptized in the Holy Ghost, And spoke in tongues, And that was before they were baptized in water, Proving that water baptism doesn't save.
 
A

Alligator

Guest
I must say that is the most feeble attempt I have seen to get water baptism completely out of the Bible.
That's because you don't know the Bible or the Greek.
You know what, you can't just come on a site like this one and make a stupid comment like "read the bible and you will see that baptism doesn't save" and expect to get by with it. You are the one who made the statement, the proof is up
to you to provide.
 
Apr 22, 2014
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That is the poorest exegeses I have ever seen, The Greek and English say the same, the emphases is on "he", the verbs are the actions of the "he" and are "believeth" and "baptized" and just like the English the "και" <-- the Greek word "and" is not only the conjunctive particle, but logical and both on each side of it must be true to make "saved" true, just like the English.

and the second part of your argument moot because if one does not believe, then baptism cannot be done because as we shall see later, it is not cleansing of the filth of the flesh, it is as much spiritual as physical and why you fail to understand it, therefore "he" remember the "he" the one with the Greek and English emphasis? "he" will be damned.



We already (above) see you have no clue how emphases in Greek works, in the Greek, words can be moved around but the emphases does not change but that doesn't even matter in this case, here the emphases is "Ye" in the plural, it is what "they" were told to do when they asked the question "what shall we do?", the answer Peter gave (in the Greek and English) is "Repent ye" in singular, while "be baptized every one of you" is in the plural.

There is here also a change from the second to the third person; this change shows a break in the thought; the first thing to do is make a radical and complete change; this is done in repentance; then let each one be baptized "in the name of Jesus Christ." This is the same as the command in Matt. 28:19.



You have a lot to prove here, first prove he was baptized with the Holy Ghost 3 days before he was baptized, then you must prove he was saved by Holy Spirit baptism even if you could prove he was baptized as such, Paul was not at ease because he believed on the road, he would not even eat for three days until after he was told by Ananias what to do, he did not eat after he believed, he ate after he was water baptized.



You and your Greek, do you even know Greek?

1 Pet 3:21 cannot be understood without 1 Pet 3:20 :

1 Peter 3:20-21 (NKJV) [SUP]20 [/SUP] who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. [SUP]21 [/SUP] There is also an antitype which now saves us--baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

I chose the NKJV because it uses almost a transliteration of the actual Greek word "αντιτυπον" ("antitupon").

Notice Verse 21 "There is also an antitype", this is in reference to "water" in verse 20, the antitype is like your face in a mirror, the same but opposite, in the time of Noah, like the water washed away the sins of the world, now the water washes (the antitype) our sins away, but then Peter (so people like you should not get this confused with taking a bath) continues with (not removal of the filth of the flesh) because this is not a physical cleansing, but a spiritual one done by the Spirit of God, putting you "Into Christ" and how you come into contact with "His Cleansing Blood" :

Revelation 1:5 (NKJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood,

You people do your best to put a sinner in a saved position!


I have shown you what the Bible and the Greek says,
But you have to disagree, because you believe water baptism saves.

As for your NKJV even that says water baptism is only an antitype, a figure, a symbol of salvation, NOT the thing that saves.