Santa Clause

[Simona25]

What is a parable?

The parable is an allegorical story used with a didactic purpose (very spread in the Oriental world). Whenever the disciples dealt with a difficult text or a difficult concept, the master, instead of using an argumentative speech or established definitions, would rather illustrate the concept through a parable (something like "You don't understand? Let me put it for you this way, let me tell you a story"). So, a parable's purpose is to explain something abstract with the mean of concrete situations put in stories.

 

[john832]

It is blasphemous to address Mary the way you would only address the Lord. Luke 1 says that she would be called blessed, which means blessed by God. God blesses persons, and He surely blessed Mary. The scripture does not say that we should bless Mary.

Only God is omnipresent. God can hear your prayers everywhere. But since Mary is not omnipresent, but only a human being, how is she going to hear your prayer anyway? Show me anywhere in the Bible where anyone every prayed to a dead person or any place that advocates praying to the dead.

Besides that, she is dead, buried and awaiting the resurrection.

 

[Simona25]

Parables are not quaint stories to help poorly educated farm-folk understand, rather, they are very cleverly crafted to disguise the truth from all but to whom it has been given to understand.

No. The parables are used in order to clarify something that is difficult to understand. The fact that Jesus Christ used them with the exact opposite purpose is something extra-ordinary for the common use of parable, and also scandalous (might I say) at the first sight because we all know that Christ came for everyone. Everything that Jesus Christ did was against the common use.

 

[Pozessed]

Do you even know what a parable is?

Sorry, I'm very tired at the moment. I should have considered your question better. No, I'm convinced that Jesus used the parables as you described. Though some may be beyond my understanding, or have escaped my memory at this time, I do believe they were genuine stories that address the working of God.

 

[Simona25]

Sorry, I'm very tired at the moment. I should have considered your question better. No, I'm convinced that Jesus used the parables as you described. Though some may be beyond my understanding, or have escaped my memory at this time, I do believe they were genuine stories that address the working of God.

Jesus Christ did reverse the use of the parable, just like john832 said. But that doesn't change the fact that the Extreme Orient used the parable to explain an abstract notion.
I'm sorry for derailing your thread, but I can't help not to share with you how original Jesus Christ actually was (and still is ).

 

[john832]

No. The parables are used in order to clarify something that is difficult to understand. The fact that Jesus Christ used them with the exact opposite purpose is something extra-ordinary for the common use of parable, and also scandalous (might I say) at the first sight because we all know that Christ came for everyone. Everything that Jesus Christ did was against the common use.

Christ plainly says that parables are meant to hid the truth...

Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Mar 4:10 And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable.
Mar 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
Mar 4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

Luk 8:9 And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be?
Luk 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

 

[Pozessed]

Jesus Christ did reverse the use of the parable, just like john832 said. But that doesn't change the fact that the Extreme Orient used the parable to explain an abstract notion.
I'm sorry for derailing your thread, but I can't help not to share with you how original Jesus Christ actually was (and still is ).

No problem, I do enjoy the insight. To get it back on track though I want to get to what really gets me heated about Santa. So I will repost my thoughts from before.

"I'm saying lies beget lies, deceit begets deceit, corruption begets corruption.

We live in a society where parents lie to children, corporations deceive consumers, and people are corrupted by government. We have the ability to diminish these things, little by little, yet we add to it."

 

[john832]

Jesus Christ did reverse the use of the parable, just like john832 said. But that doesn't change the fact that the Extreme Orient used the parable to explain an abstract notion.
I'm sorry for derailing your thread, but I can't help not to share with you how original Jesus Christ actually was (and still is ).

I frankly don't care what the Extreme Orient did, rather what Christ plainly says, He used parables so that most would NOT understand, see post #66.

 

[Pozessed]

I frankly don't care what the Extreme Orient did, rather what Christ plainly says, He used parables so that most would NOT understand, see post #66.

Thank you for that clarification. I do appreciate it.

 

[JeremiahJr]

The Parables of the Kingdom were meant for those "who have ears that hear" (Matt. 13:9). Christ is not looking for a bunch of brain-dead followers that need to be spoon-fed. He is waiting for those who seek out the truth, that pray for vision, that they might be workers in the field, rather than bench (pew) warmers.

 

[Pozessed]

Christ plainly says that parables are meant to hid the truth...

Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Mar 4:10 And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable.
Mar 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
Mar 4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

Luk 8:9 And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be?
Luk 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

That's actually quite deceiveing... I kinda see the relation with Santa Clause now, which really has no purpose in the feelings I harbor against Santa because this is all new to me.

 

[Simona25]

John832, can you understand the fact that the answer of Jesus Christ to the apostle's question "Why do you speak to them in parables?" is scandalous on so many levels?

Some of the reasons why the answer is unusual and unexpected is because:

1. the use of parables as didactic method was very spread (even before Jesus Christ). So, when they ask Him "But why do you speak in parables?" is as if talking in parables was very unusual, when in reality, it wasn't.

2. the parable was used in order to clarify something difficult to understand, not to make it even harder to understand. The fact that Jesus Christ hides, instead of revealing is very unusual for the common use of the parable.

3. there are more reasons why the answer of Christ is scandalous, but I'll stop here. This has nothing to do with the parable, but with Christ's mission on earth. We know that He wants everybody to be saved, and yet, from His response, you get idea that He is discriminating. But is He? This is already the subject for another thread. Why did Christ answered that He talks to them in parables so that they hear and don't understand, they see and don't perceive?

 

[Simona25]

Mar 4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

You quoted a soften version of what Jesus Christ said...in the original, Christ's words are much more harsh.

 

[john832]

John832, can you understand the fact that the answer of Jesus Christ to the apostle's question "Why do you speak to them in parables?" is scandalous on so many levels?

Some of the reasons why the answer is unusual and unexpected is because:

1. the use of parables as didactic method was very spread (even before Jesus Christ). So, when they ask Him "But why do you speak in parables?" is as if talking in parables was very unusual, when in reality, it wasn't.

2. the parable was used in order to clarify something difficult to understand, not to make it even harder to understand. The fact that Jesus Christ hides, instead of revealing is very unusual for the common use of the parable.

3. there are more reasons why the answer of Christ is scandalous, but I'll stop here. This has nothing to do with the parable, but with Christ's mission on earth. We know that He wants everybody to be saved, and yet, from His response, you get idea that He is discriminating. But is He? This is already the subject for another thread. Why did Christ answered that He talks to them in parables so that they hear and don't understand, they see and don't perceive?

All according to whether you believe in the "Great Controversy" heresy propounded by the SDAs. I do not.

 

[Simona25]

All according to whether you believe in the "Great Controversy" heresy propounded by the SDAs. I do not.

What? What is SDA?

 

[posthuman]

What? What is SDA?

(guessing) seventh day adventist?

 

[faroukfarouk]

Is it blasphemous to bless Mary?


Luke 1:48-49

48 for he has been mindful
of the humble state of his servant.
From now on all generations will call me blessed,
49 for the Mighty One has done great things for me—
holy is his name.

Mary herself says: 'My soul doth magnify the Lord' (Luke 2.46), and she refers to 'God my Savior' (Luke 2.47). She herself is evidently not a mediator of grace to the sinner; she needed a Savior herself, though highly favored also.

 

[john832]

(guessing) seventh day adventist?

Yep, they have a doctrine called the "Great Controversy" and most protestants as well as the Catholic church have fallen right into it.

In a nutshell, it says that there is a great controversy going on between God and Satan. God is desperately trying to save everyone right now, and the Devil is trying his best to cause everyone to go tot he Lake of Fire. If this is really the truth, who is winning?

(It is not the truth, it is a heresy but nevertheless, many believe it.)

 

[tarzan]

No I don't promote Santa in my house.

My kids know from the start. My parents raised me believing in Santa and it ended up ticking me off in the end. Once I got over the Santa thing as a kid, I was able to see the "magic" in reality without the need to rely on fake stuff.

My kids are instructed to believe the truth and to search it out and to consider it. They are also instructed to not dishonor their elders. IF someone says, "Santa got you this!" Just say, "Yes sir" "Yes Ma'am" and "Thank you very much". Don't go bossing around people and railing against the Santa thing, it's pointless.

However, they do know that every good thing they receive is a gift from God. And God is greater than Santa, He is real, you can't see Him but He does exist, and He is certainly always privy as to who is "naughty" and who is "nice". Some appreciate that aspect only on Christmas, but in this household, the question is asked of the kids everyday, "Who made your food?" "God did." And of every other good thing they receive. So that they understand that no matter who or what played a part in their reception of a good thing, God is always the source.

Also, I want my kids to want to be good for the sake of being good - not because Santa might not give them a good Christmas if they are bad. And I'm not even thrilled with the idea of Christmas really. I don't think it's necessary. I think that if you want to give somebody something, then any day is as good as another day, and if you have the means to give it, give it then. And also to teach my kids that others are also allowed to receive good things even while they themselves may not be receiving something now. So that they know to have joy for others when others receive, instead of having jealously or greed. And also to learn that it is good to give and to think of receiving nothing in return, for in Christmas there is always the exchange, and so where is the reward? And any holiday is like this.

I prefer in teaching proper love and giving, and not the world's way of giving.

But, I am not everyone. And the spirits of others are different. And some may come to know the Lord through a different means than how I have come to know the Lord. If Jesus Christ becomes the center of someone's life, the means by which that happens I cannot judge as a bad thing, ever!

So I will tell no one else to not do the Christmas thing ever. But I never suffer the people who tell me that I am robbing my children when I know very well that I am only giving them wisdom and truth. My kids receive much more than most kids because I give to my kids freely all the time and everyone else gives them a lot on holidays. So there is nothing but blessings for my kids: lessons, gifts, and love galore; never discounting the discipline and instruction.

I would say my children have a pretty sweet deal going on.

 

[john832]

No I don't promote Santa in my house.

My kids know from the start. My parents raised me believing in Santa and it ended up ticking me off in the end. Once I got over the Santa thing as a kid, I was able to see the "magic" in reality without the need to rely on fake stuff.

My kids are instructed to believe the truth and to search it out and to consider it. They are also instructed to not dishonor their elders. IF someone says, "Santa got you this!" Just say, "Yes sir" "Yes Ma'am" and "Thank you very much". Don't go bossing around people and railing against the Santa thing, it's pointless.

However, they do know that every good thing they receive is a gift from God. And God is greater than Santa, He is real, you can't see Him but He does exist, and He is certainly always privy as to who is "naughty" and who is "nice". Some appreciate that aspect only on Christmas, but in this household, the question is asked of the kids everyday, "Who made your food?" "God did." And of every other good thing they receive. So that they understand that no matter who or what played a part in their reception of a good thing, God is always the source.

Also, I want my kids to want to be good for the sake of being good - not because Santa might not give them a good Christmas if they are bad. And I'm not even thrilled with the idea of Christmas really. I don't think it's necessary. I think that if you want to give somebody something, then any day is as good as another day, and if you have the means to give it, give it then. And also to teach my kids that others are also allowed to receive good things even while they themselves may not be receiving something now. So that they know to have joy for others when others receive, instead of having jealously or greed. And also to learn that it is good to give and to think of receiving nothing in return, for in Christmas there is always the exchange, and so where is the reward? And any holiday is like this.

I prefer in teaching proper love and giving, and not the world's way of giving.

But, I am not everyone. And the spirits of others are different. And some may come to know the Lord through a different means than how I have come to know the Lord. If Jesus Christ becomes the center of someone's life, the means by which that happens I cannot judge as a bad thing, ever!

So I will tell no one else to not do the Christmas thing ever. But I never suffer the people who tell me that I am robbing my children when I know very well that I am only giving them wisdom and truth. My kids receive much more than most kids because I give to my kids freely all the time and everyone else gives them a lot on holidays. So there is nothing but blessings for my kids: lessons, gifts, and love galore; never discounting the discipline and instruction.

I would say my children have a pretty sweet deal going on.

How refreshing.