It's symbolic, and it's presumptuous to assume that dunking turns some sort of spiritual key to give eternal life.
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It's symbolic, and it's presumptuous to assume that dunking turns some sort of spiritual key to give eternal life.
As I have posted many times in this thread already, the bible is its own best commentary:
Jn 3:5-------------spirit++++++++++++++water>>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
1Cor12"13---------spirit++++++++++++++baptized>>>>>>>>in the body
Tts 3:5-----------holy Ghost+++++++washing of reg.>>>>>>saved
Eph 5:26-----------Word++++++++++washing of water>>>>>>cleansed
1Pet 1:21---------spirit+++++++++++obey the truth>>>>>>>purified souls
All these verses perfectly harmonize.
You are creating all kinds of contradiction and disharmony among these verses that all deal with the new birth.
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Mt 3:11 "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, andwith fire:"
Proper exegesis is to know is is speaking, who is being spoken to and what is being said.
John is speaking, speaking to Pharisees that came to his baptism and verse 11 is what John said.
--the pronoun "you" occurs twice.
--why would John tell these Pharisees that "i baptized you with "water" when John had not done so, the Pharisees rejected John's baptism, Lk 7:30? It is apparent that neither "you" refers to those John was speaking to nor anyone today. John was simply announcing the baptism he baptized with and announcing the type of baptism Jesus would baptize with. It canot be told from the immediate context of Mt 3:11 who the pronouns "you" refer to, so we have to look at the fulfillment of this prophecy of John.
---in Acts 1:1-5 Jesus was with His apostles when He refers to what John said in Mt 3:11 in Acts 1:5. So the "you" that would be baptized with the Holy Ghost is the apostles. Of course people will try and force themselves into the verse making themselves the second "you" while ignoring the first "you" altogether.
---So Mt 3:11 is a promise to the apostles the baptism with the Holy Spirit, no one else. Christ's water baptism of the great commission, Jn 3:5; Mt 28:19,20; Mk 16:15,16 is commanded to everyone today.
J
JeremiahJr
Guest
[SUP]Is there anyone out there that wishes to neglect the rite?
18 [/SUP]For Christ also died[SUP][a][/SUP] for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit; [SUP]19 [/SUP]in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison, [SUP]20 [/SUP]who formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, [SUP]22 [/SUP]who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to him. 1 Peter 3
18 [/SUP]For Christ also died[SUP][a][/SUP] for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit; [SUP]19 [/SUP]in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison, [SUP]20 [/SUP]who formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, [SUP]22 [/SUP]who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to him. 1 Peter 3
Acts 11:17 refers to that apostles that believed back in Acts 2.
Acts 11:4 "But Peter rehearsed the matter from the beginning, and expounded it by order unto them, saying,"
Acts 11:15 "And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning."
The ONE Name.... Rev 19:Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called: The Word of God.
The ONE NAME is the WORD OF GOD....
So here is the answer to ALL the three commands....
TEACH THEM WHAT? ............THE WORD OF GOD
BAPTIZE THEM IN WHAT? ....THE WORD OF GOD
OBSERVE WHAT?...................THE WORD OF GOD
The Word of God is God... John 1
The word of God was made flesh, Jesus.... John 1
The word of God is the Truth (Spirit of Truth)... John 17 in what we are SANCTIFIED IN!
The ONE NAME is the WORD OF GOD....
So here is the answer to ALL the three commands....
TEACH THEM WHAT? ............THE WORD OF GOD
BAPTIZE THEM IN WHAT? ....THE WORD OF GOD
OBSERVE WHAT?...................THE WORD OF GOD
The Word of God is God... John 1
The word of God was made flesh, Jesus.... John 1
The word of God is the Truth (Spirit of Truth)... John 17 in what we are SANCTIFIED IN!
It's faith in His blood that saves; and the repentant thief on the Cross found it hard to be baptised.
The thief is not an example of NT salvation. He may have been water baptized by John for all we know, Mk 1:5.
So the question remains; Can I disobey Christ's command to be baptized and still be saved?
You have to first hear, Rom 10:17; believe, Jn 8:24; repent, Lk 13:3,5; confess, Mt 10:32,33 and be baptized (new birth), Mk 16;16.
Actually verse 11 makes it clear that the circumcision of the New Testament believer is spiritual. And it's the power of the Resurrection (verse 12), not baptism, that brings new life to the person who is born again.
can i be baptized in water without trusting Christ for my salvation and still be saved?
I like how you left out "one baptism" in verse 5, and its in the Greek... "βαπτισμα" and you missed it....
I already explained how one gets into the one body, it is by water baptism, you're buried in water putting you "into Christ" that puts you in spiritual contact with the cleansing blood of our Savior :
Romans 6:3-6 (NKJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? [SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, [SUP]6 [/SUP]knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.
Yes, Eph 2:8-9 says the Jewish law will not save you, but Titus 3:5 "through the washing of regeneration" and "renewing of the spirit" or in other words "water baptism" we are saved.
Eis (for) means for, looking toward NOT "because".
Acts 2:41 "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized:..."
Those that rejected baptism rejected Peter's gospel words. So one has not accepted the gospel until he has obeyed the gosepl turth by beign bpatized:
Jn 3:5------------------spirit++++++++++++water>>>>>>>>>>>>>.in the kingdom
1cor12:13------------spirit+++++++++++baptized>>>>>>>>>>>>in the body
1Pet1:22--------------spirit+++++++++obey the truth>>>>>>>>>purified souls
Obeying the truth purifies the soul > baptism remits sins
Acts 16:34 "And he brought them up into his house, and set food before them, and rejoiced greatly, with all his house, having believed in God.
The participle "having believed" includes ALL the jailer had just done including repent as seen by cleaning their stripes and being baptized.
So here in Acts 16:34 as in Acts 2:41,44 we have believed used as a synecdoche were it includes being baptized.
J
JeremiahJr
Guest
This has always been the relevant question. Christ gave the parable of the wedding feast in which the guest without the wedding garment was cast into outer darkness. (Matt. 22:11-). Paul describes those that have been baptized as having "put on Christ" (Galatians 3:27). The Greek here (Strong's 1746) means to "sink into a garment" or to "invest with clothing".
Perhaps the question could asked: Do you want to be without your wedding garment at the necessary time?
Perhaps the question could asked: Do you want to be without your wedding garment at the necessary time?
Rom 6:3-4 water baptism is symbolic of the death burial and resurrection of Christ where one rises from a watery grace to walk in newness of life. No baptism = no newness of life.
Mk 16:16; Acts 2:38; 1 pet 3:21 show that water baptism also saves, so it not just a mere symbol and nothing more.
Ephesians 5:26 (NKJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP]that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word,
This means water baptism, you cannot obey "the word of God" and not be baptized.
The baptism was a sign that the faith existed. It was not in order to make the faith happen.