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Hi CEF,
It's not the water that saves anyone, it's what God does when one goes into the water of baptism in obedience to God's command. Peter said it is an appeal to God with good conscience. When one goes into the waters of baptism they are appealing to God for the forgiveness of their former sins.
People, taking a verse of Scripture that speaks of being saved but doesn't mention baptism doesn't prove that baptism isn't necessary. That's an argument from silence and a logical fallacy. If you see a passage that says you're saved by faith and another that says baptism saves, the logical conclusion is that faith and baptism save. Pitting Scripture against Scripture doesn't make your case. To ignore or dismiss the passages that don't agree with you theology is not coming to a correct understanding of the Scriptures.
Suppose you saw a friend who said, I saw John at the mall today and then you saw another friend who said, I saw Tim at the mall today. Would you then argue with your friend, no you didn't see Tim at the mall today, because John was there? That would be ridiculous. You would simply conclude that John and Tim were both at the mall today. It's no different with the Scriptures. Let go of you doctrines and just accept what the Scriptures say.
Suppose you saw a friend who said, I saw John at the mall today and then you saw another friend who said, I saw Tim at the mall today. Would you then argue with your friend, no you didn't see Tim at the mall today, because John was there? That would be ridiculous. You would simply conclude that John and Tim were both at the mall today. It's no different with the Scriptures. Let go of you doctrines and just accept what the Scriptures say.
L
Linda70
Guest
Sound doctrine is necessary if we are to "be throughly furnished unto all good works." Doctrine means teaching and biblical usage of doctrine refers to sound teaching based on the Word of God.
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2 Timothy 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2 Timothy 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2 Timothy 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2 Timothy 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
this is all that water can do!
not looking to water to save isn't the same thing as saying "don't be baptized."
if i said loving your enemies didn't save you, or commend you to God,
you wouldn't take it i meant we ought not to do so? so if i say keeping baptism is not the justification of my hope, i don't mean that i am not baptized, i would not baptize, i don't agree with baptizing or that i don't shout huzzah! and happy birthday! when i see someone baptized! but i don't mean that that day is their birthday, but by their obedient, public acknowledgment of faith, i know they have had a rebirth =]
God saves, the question is on what conditions. The first condition is belief. After one believes they are to be obedient. Water baptism is the point at which one makes an appeal to God for the forgiveness of ones former sins. It is the entrance into the convenant
What about if one make an appeal to God for the forgiveness by Praying like this.
God Please forgive my sin honest.
Did God not forgive unless go to baptism?
Well, God is certainly capable of forgiving however he pleases. However, we cannot assume what He will do we can only do what He's told us to do. There's no way to get around the issue. Jesus said, he who believes and is baptized shall be saved. Notice that saved is in the future tense, whoever believes and is baptized "shall be" saved. Therefore believe and baptized must come before saved. That's the only way the grammar will allow.
Brother,
So you believe, that a person that believe in Jesus and die a minute later not save because not being baptized?
So you believe, that a person that died one minute before belief is not saved?
L
Linda70
Guest
That is baptismal regeneration, Butch. There is nothing "magical" in the water of the baptismal font. So, what are you "believing"? Are you believing that once you are baptized you will be saved, and if you are not baptized, you are still lost...even though you believed? Or are you believing on the Lord Jesus Christ to save you, as the Philippian jailor and the Ethiopian eunuch did?
One minute before believe in Jesus die?
It mean believe in Jesus after die? Am I correct?
The, "One baptism", was the subject that we were discussing, So there was no point in putting that in.
One does not get into the body through water baptism, 1 Cor 12: 13, says it's by the spiritual rebirth,
By one SPIRIT we are baptised into the body, NOT by ONE baptism.
How did you get saved, And how did you get baptised in water?. Please tell me.
As for Rom 6: 3-6, Baptism is just the symbol of our ALREADY death, burial and resurrection with Christ.
One has to die to self, be buried with Christ and raised up with Christ before they can be baptised.
Eph 2: 8--9 says NO WORKS will save us, NOT the Jewish laws.
Titus doesn't say anything about water baptism, It says the washing of regeneration and the renewing of the Holy Ghost.
The Greek word for, "Washing", in Titus 3: 5, is "Loutron", Not "Baptisma" [Baptism].
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Yeah,
He was sent to the world so all who trust him WILL HAVE eternal life. (be saved) Because he took the penalty of sin in our place.
It is obvious your the one who does not understand what he did, Your to busy trying to add your work to his work.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
No. It was added by the roman church, trying to replace judaism and their mosaic laws. And replacing it with the laws of the church.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
No, He said baptism was a LIKE FIGURE. It (as was the flood) figured that which truly saves us, The death burial and ressurection of Christ.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
So I can not do this until I get baptized? Since when? So tricky, a means to add mans own work to the work of Christ on the cross. So sad, the modern day pharisee,