Why do some Christians think modern crossdressing is an abomination?

[laymen]

And again what does one do if one is XX/XY? Are they male or are they female? Or is this a matter that would the person who is dealing to take it before the Lord and lay it at His feet because He sees the inside?

Don't you think the part about "cross dresser" would help to imply that its a man crossing dressing? or Women crossing dressing to look like a man, ether way we are dealing with a Male or female not Male/female. In other words Cross Dressing means they knew what they where before dressing that way or else its just called getting dressed would you not agree SarahM777?

 

[SarahM777]

Don't you think the part about "cross dresser" would help to imply that its a man crossing dressing? or Women crossing dressing to look like a man, ether way we are dealing with a Male or female not Male/female. In other words Cross Dressing means they knew what they where before dressing that way or else its just called getting dressed would you not agree SarahM777?

It should,but that often is NOT the way many Christians see it. Many Christians do see the appearances of a "man" or "woman" that is dressed in the others clothing and "assume" that the reasons that it is done is all one and the same. There are those that do use it for sex,money,and other reasons that is not tied to a physical issue.

 

[SarahM777]

We have a lot of mental illness that runs in my family. I don't push the issue a lot and I never, ever expect compassion.

You can't believe the ignorance out there.

When it comes to gender issues, they are literally so complex I don't suggest anyone touch the subject online.

Sometimes we can let it go. Many of these people will never have the scope to understand. They just don't have the experience and literally have no background in medicine or psychology.

Some do have some valid points with perversions etc and that's all people think about when it's presented in a forum like this. People become reflexive and defensive.

And it shouldn't be that way. Out of all the people on the face of the earth,Christians are to show the same KIND of love that God showed to us all. How many Christians actually show any type of compassion,love and mercy? God even tells us He does NOT want our sacrifices but He desires us to show mercy.

Actually I can believe the ignorance that is out there Danalee. See when I grew up transexualism was viewed as being a mental illness and not a physical problem. And two there is a better understanding that not all intersexed issues are seen from birth,some are not seen till puberty or later.

Of course many won't. Some love to sit in judgement without ever trying to speak to person on an individual level. The thing is if those of us dealing with these don't speak up on these things will it ever change?

I agree there are multiple reasons behind what people see with their eyes but the root of it is NOT always the same. God also tells us NOT to judge by OUTWARD APPEARANCES.

 

[Kerry]

Look God loves the homo and He even loves the ole boy that enjoy's sheep. But He hate's homosexuality and He hates beastiality ( yes God hates things and has even killed people). I thought we were taking about a person who had a sex change and then got saved, but if you are trying to justify your alternative lifestyle that's another thing.

 

[didymos]

I was reading over past threads here and am surprised at the reasoning used to condemn some cross dressers and transgenders. Why would a modern cross dresser be an abomination? The context in Deuteronomy 22 seems to be more cultural to Israel of the day than universal for all time. (...)

.

EVERYthing in the Bible suddenly seems to be 'culturally determined' when its message doesn't suit people. You'll always find some exegesis that justifies your (unbiblical) habits/preferences. To me that seems like picking and choosing from scripture. The principle should always be to take God's word seriously, all other paths lead to sin. I'm not into throwing stones (hey, we're all sinners) but your sin is all to clear Aerin.

 

[SarahM777]

EVERYthing in the Bible suddenly seems to be 'culturally determined' when its message doesn't suit people. You'll always find some exegesis that justifies your (unbiblical) habits/preferences. To me that seems like picking and choosing from scripture. The principle should always be to take God's word seriously, all other paths lead to sin. I'm not into throwing stones (hey, we're all sinners) but your sin is all to clear Aerin.

So do you pick and choose what you follow under the Mosaic law? That law is UNDER the Mosaic law and IS NOT repeated in the NT. And again do you know whether Aerin is dealing with a physical issue or not?

 

[SarahM777]

EVERYthing in the Bible suddenly seems to be 'culturally determined' when its message doesn't suit people. You'll always find some exegesis that justifies your (unbiblical) habits/preferences. To me that seems like picking and choosing from scripture. The principle should always be to take God's word seriously, all other paths lead to sin. I'm not into throwing stones (hey, we're all sinners) but your sin is all to clear Aerin.

And never mind the fact if one goes by the letter of the law,many women wear their HUSBAND'S clothes YET few if anyone sees that as being wrong,yet under the letter of the law that is JUST AS WRONG.

 

[didymos]

So do you pick and choose what you follow under the Mosaic law? That law is UNDER the Mosaic law and IS NOT repeated in the NT. And again do you know whether Aerin is dealing with a physical issue or not?

Read my post again: I take the Bible seriously in its ENTIRETY.

 

[SarahM777]

Read my post again: I take the Bible seriously in its ENTIRETY.

Do you follow ALL of the laws of the Mosaic covenant? If not then you also are picking and choosing which ones you will or will not obey. How about these?

• N361 Leviticus 22:24 - Not to castrate a man or beast (Can't neuter or spay your pets)
• 
  
• N230 Deuteronomy 15:2 - Not to demand payment of debts after (7th) Shmitah year
• N231 Deuteronomy 15:9 - Not to refuse loan to poor because Shmitah year is near
  
• N232 Deuteronomy 15:7 - Not to deny charity to the poor
  
• N233 Deuteronomy 15:13 - Not sending a Hebrew bondman away empty-handed
  
• N234 Exodus 22:24 - Not demanding payment from a debtor known unable to pay
  
• N235 Leviticus 25:37 - Not lending to another Jew at interest
  
• N236 Deuteronomy 23:20 - Not borrowing from another Jew at interest
  
• N237 Exodus 22:24 - Not participating in an agreement involving interest
  
• N238 Leviticus 19:13 - Oppress not an employee by delaying paying his wages
  
• N239 Deuteronomy 24:10 - Not taking a pledge from a debtor by force
  
• N240 Deuteronomy 24:12 - Not keeping a poor man's pledge when he needs it
  
• N241 Deuteronomy 24:17 - Not taking any pledge from a widow

• N 43 Leviticus 19:27 - Not shaving the temples/sides of your head
  
• N 44 Leviticus 19:27 - Not shaving your beard
• 
  
• P 10 Deuteronomy 6:7 - On reciting the Sh'ma each morning and evening
• P 11 Deuteronomy 6:7 - On studying and teaching Torah
  
• P 12 Deuteronomy 6:8 - On binding Tefillin on the head
  
• P 13 Deuteronomy 6:8 - On binding Tefillin on the hand
  
• P 14 Numbers 15:38 - On making Tzitzit with thread of blue, garments corners
  
• P 15 Deuteronomy 6:9 - On affixing a Mezuzah to doorposts and gates
  
• P 16 Deuteronomy 31:12 - On Assembling each 7th year to hear the Torah read
  
• P 17 Deuteronomy 17:18 - On that a king must write a copy of Torah for himself
  
• P 18 Deuteronomy 31:19 - On that everyone should have a Torah scroll
  
• P 19 Deuteronomy 8:10 - On praising God after eating, Grace after meals

By the way these are NOT the dietary laws. These are ALL directives from God under the Mosaic law. Are you doing these or not?

 

[didymos]

Do you follow ALL of the laws of the Mosaic covenant? If not then you also are picking and choosing which ones you will or will not obey. (...)

Did I ONLY mention the Law?
I'm a christian, so I can ONLY read the OT with the NT in mind (Matthew 5:17).
But let's not make this a discussion about the Law, because that was not what my original comment was about.

 

[fredjames]

I was reading over past threads here and am surprised at the reasoning used to condemn some cross dressers and transgenders. Why would a modern cross dresser be an abomination? The context in Deuteronomy 22 seems to be more cultural to Israel of the day than universal for all time.

Is it possible that surrounding pagan peoples used cross dressing in their religious rituals? There could be many reasons why one wouldn't want to walk among the tents and camps of Israel and not be clearly distinguished as male or female from a distance (including personal protection, vulnerable to enemies, mistakenly offending a woman's husband and receiving harsh penalties, etc). Not to mention the sanitary issue of male / female body fluids that were in contact with under garments.

Modern cross dressing is something entirely different. When you're at the park and see men and women jogging, it's sometimes hard to discern genders from a distance because of all the shorts and exposed clothing that everyone wears anyway (male proper and female proper). But do we condemn a woman who wears her man's over sized t-shirts because she likes the way they feel and smell? Or a man who wears women's shorts / skinny jeans because they fit well? A transgender who has a naturally petite body? Or a woman who wears baggy man pants? Women tend to cross dress more than men because society gives them that freedom - I know many women who are NOT shy to personally shop in the men's section of any retail store. Why isn't that an abomination? To me it looks like a double standard and a cultural issue.

As it is written;
1. "A little yeast rises a whole batch of dough."
2. "Get rid of that yeast."

We are called to serve a GOD of order and not of disorder, which is the deception of satan from the very start. he will always want a come back, even in initiating those who are still in the flesh.

Another thing my dear is our selfish feelings and desires that we are tempted to, to compromise CHRIST'S reestablished structural order for the Kingdom of GOD once again, and when sin is done with us it leaves for dead, as written according to the epistle of James 1;13-15.

As it is written to all Christian; "You are neither hot nor cold but lukewarm, for I will spit you out."

Either we are on GOD's side completely or on the enemy's (self/world/satan), not in between both, for we know there is an enmity between both and the consequences is a great price to pay one day.

"Instead of rendering your outer garment, rather render your heart." (being rooted in CHRIST's Word of the New Covenant)


These of CHRIST through the HOLY SPIRIT does not harm anyone but encourages them to be sharpened, ready to love GOD through CHRIST and the HOLY SPIRIT and the written New Covenant first. Then love your neighbor, fully equipped and fully trained in all Holy Scripture, breathed out by GOD.

Blessed be the name of the LORD, who is CHRIST, JESUS of Nazareth, who is still the same yesterday, today and forever, Amen.

 

[SarahM777]

Did I ONLY mention the Law?
I'm a christian, so I can ONLY read the OT with the NT in mind (Matthew 5:17).
But let's not make this a discussion about the Law, because that was not what my original comment was about.

Part of this is ABOUT that law. How does that law apply to those who are born INTERSEXED? Intersexed people are BOTH. Did God design that law to condemn someone because of a BIRTH DEFECT?

 

[didymos]

Part of this is ABOUT that law. How does that law apply to those who are born INTERSEXED? Intersexed people are BOTH. Did God design that law to condemn someone because of a BIRTH DEFECT?

Again, my comment was about how we should read the Bible IN GENERAL, taking it seriously IN PRINCIPLE, and not just using scripture to justify our (unbiblical) preferences etc afterwards. My response was to the OP's first post, there he only mentioned cross dressers and so-called transgenders, not hemaphrodites.

 

[SarahM777]

Again, my comment was about how we should read the Bible IN GENERAL, taking it seriously IN PRINCIPLE, and not just using scripture to justify our (unbiblical) preferences etc afterwards. My response was to the OP's first post, there he only mentioned cross dressers and so-called transgenders, not hemaphrodites.

But like it or not part of it HOW do we deal with transexuals to intersexed people,there is some crossover,because not all intersexed issues can be SEEN FROM THE OUTSIDE. Again if you read what I said,I also said there are those who use the cross dressing for sex,money,drugs etc,for other reasons besides a real physical issue.

Same for those who say they are transexual and are not. Some have severe abuse issues. Some have rejected their natal sex for various other reasons,but many also are telling the truth and there is a VERY REAL physical issue behind it.

The thing is many who truly are dealing with a physical issue also get thrown under bus and are hammered by that very same verse because people too often are looking at outward appearances and judging by what they see and NOT by what God sees.

 

[SarahM777]

Again, my comment was about how we should read the Bible IN GENERAL, taking it seriously IN PRINCIPLE, and not just using scripture to justify our (unbiblical) preferences etc afterwards. My response was to the OP's first post, there he only mentioned cross dressers and so-called transgenders, not hemaphrodites.

By the way if you actually read the whole thread Aerin did clarify what was being talked here

I would be careful about claiming authority over other people's salvation who you've never met based on a forum post because they happen to disagree over the "application" of a verse in O.T. Scripture. You and I both agree that sodomy is wrong if that's where you think cross dressing leads.

A point was made about the medical issues of transgenders - some like myself who were born eunuchs from the womb. Another point was made stating a view from Judaism that transgender eunuchs who acted like girls, transvestites, and homosexuals should all be put to death.

Should I be worried that people put me on the edge of existence in a manner that sounds like something out of Darwin's survival of the fittest??



I don't even know how to respond to this. What am I, some race other than human? See comment above. Christ came equally for you and for me, and no amount of arguing the law will save anyone.



If that's the perspective anyone thinks I'm coming from, no. I have a wife and we're happily married for seven years now in spite of my physical limitations and not being able to have kids. Not all cross dressers are interested in men, that is a gross misconception. I only started this post to DISCUSS the context possibilities of a verse in Scripture using the original texts. The personal condemnation and alludings to death and the occult are a little surprising.

Some of you need to take a good hard look at Romans chapter 14.

 

[SarahM777]

And those of us that are dealing with this we MUST UNDERSTAND there are BOUNDARIES. For those that live by themselves, God may give us more freedom in how we deal with it. But once you are married,you have added another person to the mix. No matter how a husband likes it or not,if his wife asks for them NOT to do it,the husband is to submit to the wife in this matter. God will NOT excuse any person that goes INTO a marriage as a man,not to be the HUSBAND. You took on an oath BEFORE God to be the husband,and it DOES NOT matter if you have a birth defect God will not EXCUSE you on that basis not to be the husband.

If you are in a conservative church for the sake of the others there,you WILL not do it,because even though you have a birth defect God will NOT excuse you on that basis for causing another to stumble.

 

[Osiyo]

OK, please forgive me, but I must give this topic the proper perspective, cross dresser are also known as :a closet queen, a female impersonator, a fruitcake, a transvestite, or a drag queen. This has been made politically correct as a "cross dresser". Satan at his best, just a little twist to make that which is bad look good, and to make that which is good look bad. He has not changed his lies yet, he's a loser but doesn't know it?

But let us not judge them, let us not make fun of them, let us show them that which has been shown to us, love, understanding, mercy, compassion for the lost in Christ Jesus. We must forgive them, as we are not any better then they are, but we are the blood bought, we have partaken in the free bread and water that was offered, we must share with them, after all, did Christ not die for them also? Why do we point and say, shame on you? Are we not judging and being made guilty also?

Pray for them, pray for the right words to speak to the lost, pray for their salvation, pray for souls that are being battled over in this war for souls, yes, a war is raging, and the price is human souls, being won for the Kingdom, or lost forever to Satan.

 

[Maggie-Cat]

Well it depends, actually I´m pretty open with these type of issues, however there are levels.

For a example, a woman wearing her husband´s oversized shirt on a Sunday morning because it feels comfortable shouldn´t be labeled as crossdressing because she is merely using his clothes, not really wanting to look like a man. Now if that woman intentionally dressed with the intention of looking like a man, buying clothes in the men´s section, then yes it should be considered crossdressing.

Now the real issue is not whether they are dressed as the opposite sex or not but the intentions they have when doing so. Do they feel uncomfortable with their gender? Is it a statement they want to make? I don´t judge or condemn them but its just not healthy for a person not to accept themselves as God created them.

 

[didymos]

By the way if you actually read the whole thread Aerin did clarify what was being talked here

If you want someone to answer your question to his best abilities you have to include all info in your first post. There was no mention of his hermaphroditism there, so I didn't take it into consideration. As if I have the time to read this whole thread.

 

[SarahM777]

If you want someone to answer your question to his best abilities you have to include all info in your first post. There was no mention of his hermaphroditism there, so I didn't take it into consideration. As if I have the time to read this whole thread.

So instead of you taking the time to read the thread and then respond,you are blaming Aerin for not including all of the information that you felt should have been there? Do you do this with other conversations also,and just break into the middle of it without really knowing what is going on?