Does water baptism save us

[saved1975]

No, he said, Noah and the flood were the figure of how baptism saves us.

Baptism was the "Figure", Symbol of salvation, Not Noah and the flood.
The Greek says about water baptism,
"Water baptism is an expression, of salvation, Not the medium for salvation, The symbol of salvation, Not the cause of salvation".


Peter knew water baptism doesn't save, He knew by his own experience, Because he was baptised in water, But not saved.
He told the people in Acts 2: 38, To repent for the remission of sins, THEN you can be baptised.... That's the way the Greek texts says it.

 

[KohenMatt]

Water baptism does not save. Faith in Yeshua saves. However.... Water baptism is good too. I personally was baptised in the Jordan river. I'll neva forget it.

I did a baptism in the Jordan, and while it was a neat experience. And while I'll never forget it either, it was one of the dirtiest rivers I've been in with more ducks and duck feces than I care to remember.

 

[Jabberjaw]

Baptism was the "Figure", Symbol of salvation, Not Noah and the flood.
The Greek says about water baptism,
"Water baptism is an expression, of salvation, Not the medium for salvation, The symbol of salvation, Not the cause of salvation".


Peter knew water baptism doesn't save, He knew by his own experience, Because he was baptised in water, But not saved.
He told the people in Acts 2: 38, To repent for the remission of sins, THEN you can be baptised.... That's the way the Greek texts says it.

We have been over this, you don't know Greek, and its not what the Greek says. the Greek in these verses say what the English says, and your one of the few that try to twist the English by twisting the Greek, trying to get away with it because most do not know Greek and you cannot get away with twisting the English with them.

 

[Jabberjaw]

So I can not do this until I get baptized? Since when? So tricky, a means to add mans own work to the work of Christ on the cross. So sad, the modern day pharisee,

You make it so clear when you have lost your argument, you resort to name calling, so obvious it is...

 

[SeaBass]

no, you didn't

i think the greater part of the exception the brethren are taking in this thread is with honoring a work - a ritual - above the Lord.

probably just a perception thing. i never said we shouldn't be baptized either; but i think it's more fitting to speak of Christ as the author of my salvation than any specific act of obedience, and like Peter, don't see washing dirt away with water as the principal thing, but faith & obedience.

i doubt anyone is advocating disobedience; they're just being sure to give God alone the glory for the gift of salvation, and not some physical rite.

It's the Lord that requires obedience from men, Heb 5:9, for the Lord will never save the disobedient.


Works are necessary to NOT be disobedient

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You make it so clear when you have lost your argument, you resort to name calling, so obvious it is...

Hey, If you see a rock, Call it a rock. If you see a pharisee. Call it a pharisee. Pharisees were big into religious ceremony and tradition. What makes you think you are any different than they were?

 

[saved1975]

We have been over this, you don't know Greek, and its not what the Greek says. the Greek in these verses say what the English says, and your one of the few that try to twist the English by twisting the Greek, trying to get away with it because most do not know Greek and you cannot get away with twisting the English with them.

I don't twist the English, Greek or the Bible.

I have shown you what the Greek says, but I can't make you believe it.


But you don't need the Greek.
If you read the New Testament as a whole, you will see that water baptism doesn't save.

 

[SeaBass]

... Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law.
Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works.
They have stumbled over the stumbling stone ....
(Romans 9:31-32)

same thing goes for us as it did for those under the law of Moses!
we must obediently pursue salvation by faith, not as though it were based on works.

The OT did not requires faith, Gal 3:12, so the Jew went about faithlessly keeping laws thinking they could merit salvation.

 

[Alligator]

Hey, If you see a rock, Call it a rock. If you see a pharisee. Call it a pharisee. Pharisees were big into religious ceremony and tradition. What makes you think you are any different than they were?

and if I see a jerk, call him a jerk.

 

[SeaBass]

I don't twist the English, Greek or the Bible.

I have shown you what the Greek says, but I can't make you believe it.


But you don't need the Greek.
If you read the New Testament as a whole, you will see that water baptism doesn't save.

You can keep posting this over and over, but the reality is you have shown NOTHING from the Greek that says baptism does not save.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

and if I see a jerk, call him a jerk.

lol.. So do you call yourself one? and are you going to answer why you trust the work of men over the work of God? (which is the more important question)? and prove me wrong?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You can keep posting this over and over, but the reality is you have shown NOTHING from the Greek that says baptism does not save.

actually he has, But some fail to listen. Their belief is more important that what the word really says.

 

[SeaBass]

actually he has, But some fail to listen. Their belief is more important that what the word really says.

Actually, he has not.

 

[saved1975]

You can keep posting this over and over, but the reality is you have shown NOTHING from the Greek that says baptism does not save.

I have told you what the Greek says, An all you have to do, Is check it out.
No one should be ignorant of the truth in these days, Because we have access to the internet, And we can check thing up on the internet.

But if people know the whole plan of redemption in the New Testament, They will know that water baptism doesn't save.
If water baptism saves, Why did Jesus have to die??.
Why weren't the disciples saved when they were baptised.
Why was Paul, The Gentiles and the disciples in Acts 19: 2-6, Saved when they weren't baptised in water??.
Those in Acts 19, didn't have the Christian baptism until Paul got them baptised.

So you can see that we don't need the Greek to prove that water baptism doesn't save, But the Greek confirms the truth.

How was you saved, And how was you baptised in water??.

 

[SeaBass]

I have told you what the Greek says, An all you have to do, Is check it out.
No one should be ignorant of the truth in these days, Because we have access to the internet, And we can check thing up on the internet.

But if people know the whole plan of redemption in the New Testament, They will know that water baptism doesn't save.
If water baptism saves, Why did Jesus have to die??.
Why weren't the disciples saved when they were baptised.
Why was Paul, The Gentiles and the disciples in Acts 19: 2-6, Saved when they weren't baptised in water??.
Those in Acts 19, didn't have the Christian baptism until Paul got them baptised.

So you can see that we don't need the Greek to prove that water baptism doesn't save, But the Greek confirms the truth.

How was you saved, And how was you baptised in water??.

You ask "If water baptism saves, Why did Jesus have to die??".


Heb 2:9, Jesus die for every man, so does that mean every man will be saved?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Actually, he has not.

Keep believing that, Thats fine.

Tell God when you get there why you would not listen to him. And only listened to self.

 

[notuptome]

What we have here is a contest of wills. These long threads demonstrate the stubborn nature of man. We yield not our will to each other. We must however yield our will to God. Yes Christ dies for every man but not every man will surrender his will to the will of God. God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

It was Adam's will in the garden that the serpent used to cause Adam to fall. It is that same will that causes many men today to fall. Those that supposedly fall away from the truth are those who never yielded their will to the will of God but instead followed the will of the prince and power of the air.

Obedience to God is yielding your will to His will.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Cassian]

What we have here is a contest of wills. These long threads demonstrate the stubborn nature of man. We yield not our will to each other. We must however yield our will to God. Yes Christ dies for every man but not every man will surrender his will to the will of God. God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

It was Adam's will in the garden that the serpent used to cause Adam to fall. It is that same will that causes many men today to fall. Those that supposedly fall away from the truth are those who never yielded their will to the will of God but instead followed the will of the prince and power of the air.

Obedience to God is yielding your will to His will.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

It is not a matter of NEVER submitting, but even if they did for a time, the sad fact is that man is led astray. Being a believer does not make a human being immune to temptations, to the wiles of the devil. That is why it is a daily struggle for a believer to remain faithful. It is far easier to fall, then to remain faithful. Even with the help we get from God, man fails to use it often, then add it our sinful nature, the sinful world, and Satan, why would you even think it would be impossible for man to fail. Adam fell with far less things working against him than we do, and he still fell.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It is not a matter of NEVER submitting, but even if they did for a time, the sad fact is that man is led astray. Being a believer does not make a human being immune to temptations, to the wiles of the devil. That is why it is a daily struggle for a believer to remain faithful. It is far easier to fall, then to remain faithful. Even with the help we get from God, man fails to use it often, then add it our sinful nature, the sinful world, and Satan, why would you even think it would be impossible for man to fail. Adam fell with far less things working against him than we do, and he still fell.

this is not the issue.

The issue is how good is good enough. On our best day we would fail to be good enough according to the law. So by our own will and struggle, we can never enter heaven, or even be worthy of standing in the same room as Christ.

That is why HIS gospel based on HIS work must save us.

This is called repentance. Until you realize this. You will never understand true faith.

 

[Cassian]

this is not the issue.

The issue is how good is good enough. On our best day we would fail to be good enough according to the law. So by our own will and struggle, we can never enter heaven, or even be worthy of standing in the same room as Christ.

That is why HIS gospel based on HIS work must save us.

This is called repentance. Until you realize this. You will never understand true faith.

If you are going to depend on what Christ did you as an individual will never be saved. Christ saved the world/ mankiind from the bondage to death and sin. He did this so that man and God could be reunited in a union of love and obedience. It is why we were created and why Christ saved us from the fall.

Christ lived a perfect life, He is the example of a perfected human being. It is why He commands us to be perfect as He is perfect. He is our supreme model and example. We are not operating under the law of works, but the law of love. Love is greater than faith. I Cor 13:13.

Repentance gets us into Christ, and repentance/confession keeps us IN Christ. Sin separates man from God. When we begin to disobey, not follow continually, we are departing from Christ. If one hardens one's heart to sin, we are liable to be condemned because if we don't repent it will separate one from Christ. It is why He will chastise one, to let him know that sin is creeping in and can cause him to depart.