Does water baptism save us

peacefulbeliever · May 7, 2014

antitypos - a thing formed after some pattenr; a thing resembling another, its counterpart [from anti meaning over against, opposite to, before; for, instead of, in place of; and typos - 1. the mark of a stroke or blow, print; 2. a figure or image]

I [John] indeed have baptized you with water: but he [Jesus] shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit. Mark 1:8

There is the type and the antitype.

Jabberjaw · May 7, 2014

peacefulbeliever said:

Look at the definition you have posted, it says exactly what we have been saying, SeaBass used the example of a die that has an image (like that of a coin) and when it strikes the metal, the image it creates on the coin is an antitype of the die, it is like your face in the mirror, the same but opposite, it is a image that is the same as the one the image is of only opposite,

Peter said in 1 Pet 3:20-21 that Like in the days of Noah, when water washed the sins away from the world, in like figure, or the antitype, or the image of, or the same but opposite as if your face looking in a mirror, water now washes away OUR sins.

peacefulbeliever said:

John 4:2 (NKJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP](though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His disciples),

Jesus told his disciples to make disciples,

Matthew 28:19 (NKJV) Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

As you just showed with your quote of Mark 1:8, Jesus baptizes with the Holy Spirit, but the disciples (including John the baptizer) can only baptize with water, and Mat. 28:19 Jesus commissioned the disciples to make disciples, He did not say "Go therefore and ill make disciples of all nations, baptizing them"

You have proven that water baptism is the one salvific baptism of Eph 4:5, but remember, like faith alone wont save you, neither will baptism alone.

Cobus · May 7, 2014

Well I believe Jesus talks about HIS Baptism in Mark 16 here not John's. So see still your Gospel fail the ONE baptism... There is only ONE baptism for God and His Gospel and it is the BAPTISM OF JESUS INTO OUR FLESH... He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

What saves water or Spirit? Only God can save and God is NOT WATER. God is SPIRIT!

How should we serve and worship God? In Spirit and Truth.... Not in water, we do not have guils so we will drown if we try to seve God in water.... but in Spirit, in Holy Spirit. the nwe are saved.

Some of you here, are so conditioned by water, that if you read teh word baptism, water comes to mind... If I read the Word BAPTISM, Jesus comes to mind....

Look, the moment God saves a person God implants the Spirit of God in that person... And God has NEVER done it with water. He does it with Holy Ghost. God puts HIS SPIRIT in the person to be SAVED, BORN OF GOD, and Baptized with the Holy Spirit...

Eph 4 does not say it is WATER ABOVE, IN AND THROUGH US ALL... Eph 4 says there is ONE FATHER AND GOD, ABOVE IN AND THROUGH US all... How did that Father God get to be above, in and through all HIS PEOPLE... Spirit Baptism. God is SPIRIT not WATER.... Water cannot save, not even the Jordan River's water.....

Jesus/God/Spirit saves not water. And now Eph 4 says this, please try to bring water into this. It will really be silly in here...
Eph 4: Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

To all who read this... What is the ONE BAPTISM GOD SPEAKS about... funny the WATER BAPTISM people want TWO Baptisms... Water is NOT SPIRIT... Spirit does not have chemical formulation. Water is H2O. Hydrogen and oxygen. Two GASSES forming a liquid. Spirit ca ngive life to ANYTHING... Read the Bible... Some amazing things happened when God poured out His Spirit on things and people.

A virgin got preagnant, not by drinking water, by Spirit. Etc.Etc.

notuptome · May 7, 2014

SeaBass said:

Your rendering of these verses is horrific. None of these verses teaches water baptism saves a soul. If water could save then Christ need not shed His blood. God said way back in the garden that blood is required not water. God did not tell Adam to go baptize himself no God shed blood to cover Adam and Eves nakedness.

Your logic = elephants are gray = everything gray is an elephant .... brilliant simply brilliant.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Jabberjaw · May 7, 2014

Cobus said:

What restored Naaman when he dipped seven times, was it the water of the Jordan that cleansed him? or that he obeyed the command to dip seven times in the Jordan?

2 Kings 5:14 (NKJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]So he went down and dipped seven times in the Jordan, according to the saying of the man of God; and his flesh was restored like the flesh of a little child, and he was clean.

Jabberjaw · May 7, 2014

notuptome said:

And your pitiful reasoning puts every man since the cross in a saved position, how pitiful.

Cobus · May 7, 2014

God restored like he still does today. Only now He uses Spirit not water. See again there is NO getting away the ONE BAPTISM is SPIRIT BAPTISM....Nothing Else.

Thank you for prooving Spirit Baptism as the ONLY Baptism that saves.... Spirit Baptism is GOD SAVING THE MAN! Thank you for prooving it AGAIN Jabberjaw...

God saves the man the moment HE BAPTIZE the man. the man on the other side of God's Baptism is CHRIST JESUS COME IN THE FLESH... The Godly Holy Spirit filled man of God like ALL His children BAPTIZED IN HOLY GHOST....Holy, perfect and Godly filled men of God. SPIRIT not water. Spirit men not water men...

2 Peter 1:21.... For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

SeaBass · May 7, 2014

peacefulbeliever said:

You posted "born of water and of the Spirit" is the figure of speech hendiadys - two words are used but only one thing is meant. Here the one thing is water but Jesus emphasises [with a figure of speech] the fact that this water is not to be material as it was under the law, but spiritual;"

You plainly said "...this water is not to be material as it was under the law, but spiritual..."

So you are trying to change "water" to "spirit" and by doing so that has Jesus saying "Except a man be born of spirit and of the spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

Jn 3:5---------------spirit++++++++++water>>>>>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
1cor12:13---------spirit++++++++++baptized>>>>>>>>>>>in the body

"Born of water" of Jn 3:5 is equivalent to "baptized" of 1 Cor 12:13...both verses teach water baptism.

The spirit does not baptize anyone Himself personally. Just as Jn 4:1 says "Jesus...baptized" while Jn 4:1 says Jesus "
"baptized not". This is not a contradiction for Jesus did not baptize anyone Himself personally but Jesus baptized by giving His authority to the disciples to baptize. In the same way, the Spirit does not baptize anyone Himself, but gives His authority through His word to water baptize, as Paul was giving this authority by the Spirit to water baptized some of the Corinthians himself, 1 Cor 1:14,15.

notuptome · May 7, 2014

Jabberjaw said:

Does your bible include John 3:19? Or Mat 23:37? Have you not read that it is not Gods will that any should perish but that all men should come to repentance? 2 Pet 3:9

You should know better.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

SeaBass · May 7, 2014

Cobus said:

1) MK 16:15,16; Matt 28:19,20 and Lk 24:47 and three accounts of Christ's great commission and those accounts shows that disciples (humans) are commissioned to go, teach and baptize. Disciples/humans administer water baptism.

2) God is a spirit and God does the spiritual work of cutting away the body of sin (spiritual circumcision without hands, Col 2:12-14) when one is water baptized.

3) Eph 4:5 "One Lord, one faith, one baptism"

----In Mk 16:16 we have the one Lord tell us about the one faith and one baptism that saves. This baptism of the great commission is human admistered water baptism.-

---proper exegesis is a word is to be taken literally unless something in the context shows it is being used figuratively. Nothing shows that bapizo of EPh 4:5 is used figuratively, so it refers to a literal immersion.

F.F. Bruce: “baptism in the New Testament is always baptism in water unless the context shows it to be something else; that is to say, the word is always to be understood literally unless the context indicates a figurative meaning” (Questions Answered, p. 106).
Again, nothing in the context of Eph 4:5 shows baptism is used figuratively.

SeaBass · May 7, 2014

notuptome said:

Those three verses all speak of the new birth and all 100% harmonize, in total, complete agreement with each other. They are only "horrific" to those that deny what they say and try to change what they are saying creating disharmony, contradictions among verses.

As been explained many times, Christ's blood washes away sins, Rev 1:5. Christ shed that blood in His death, Jn 19:34. Baptism is what puts one into Christ's death where His blood was shed, Rom 6:3-5. "Faith only" does nothing, it's dead, worthless, useless, cannot save, does not put one in Christ's death.

Christ had not shed His blood at the time of Adam, so there was no such thing as water baptism in the name of the Lord for remission of sins (Heb 9:22) for those under OT laws. Adam, the thief on the cross are not examples of NT salvation.

TRUTH7 · May 7, 2014

Baptism is a Command of God! Read Matthew3v13-17. After Repentance of sins. And the reason for baptism is to receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost ( Spirit) to lead you into believing the Truth of Word of God . Also Baptism is only made in HIS NAME!
Lord Jesus Christ. Acts2v38.

SeaBass · May 7, 2014

Cobus said:

God restored like he still does today. Only now He uses Spirit not water. See again there is NO getting away the ONE BAPTISM is SPIRIT BAPTISM....Nothing Else.

Thank you for prooving Spirit Baptism as the ONLY Baptism that saves.... Spirit Baptism is GOD SAVING THE MAN! Thank you for prooving it AGAIN Jabberjaw...

God saves the man the moment HE BAPTIZE the man. the man on the other side of God's Baptism is CHRIST JESUS COME IN THE FLESH... The Godly Holy Spirit filled man of God like ALL His children BAPTIZED IN HOLY GHOST....Holy, perfect and Godly filled men of God. SPIRIT not water. Spirit men not water men...

2 Peter 1:21.... For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

2 Pet 1:21 has nothing to do with baptism, but tells us that men of God were inspired by the HG in what they spoke,

notuptome · May 7, 2014

SeaBass said:

Do you really expect me to believe that you believe what you are writing?

A basic principal in understanding the bible is to understand Who God is. God does not change. God required blood from Adam to this day and through all of eternity the blood of Christ will continue to plead for man's sin.

Cain presented a non-blood offering and was not accepted in the sight of God. Pay heed to this little fact. Water cannot save never could. Grace saves and the blood atones water washes only the outside. By the way Israel had many washings long before the Messiah came to them. Ceremonial washings or baptisms have long been part of religions across the world. Christians carry these traditions forward to this day but nothing about them results in salvation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

SunnySoul · May 7, 2014

TRUTH7 said:

The awesome significance of water baptism is that it symbolizes the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ and our identification with Him in them. The Scriptures refer to Jesus as being the last Adam (1 Corinthians 15;21-22, 45). Jesus, in His sacrifice for us, represented us. When a person receives Jesus as Lord, he identifies fully with what happened to Jesus (Romans 6:4-6). Water baptism is a physical act that should indelibly mark the mind of the person being baptized with the reality of his union with Jesus Christ.
Water baptism also gives the believer the opportunity to openly testify to others of his born-again experience. It serves as an outward sign and testimony of an inward grace. The believer has been crucified with Christ, buried with Him and raised together with Him to walk in newness of life (Galatians 2:20; Romans 6:4).

SunnySoul · May 7, 2014

TRUTH7 said:

Matthew 3:11 "As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire."

The baptism with water has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit...

SeaBass · May 7, 2014

notuptome said:

Jn 3:5---------------spirit++++++++++water>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
1cor12:13----------spirit++++++++++baptized>>>>>>>in the body
Tts3:5-----------Holy Spirit++++++washing of reg>>>>>saved

Do these verses harmonize or not?

------------------

I made a reference to Heb 9:22 that says '...and without shedding of blood is no remission". Those under the OT law did not have the shed blood of Christ to totally,completely remit all their sins...."For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.But in those sacrifices there isa remembrance again made of sins every year." Heb 10:1-3.

So Adam, Cain did not have what we today have in the shed blood of Christ.

SeaBass · May 7, 2014

SunnySoul said:

Mt 3:11 has the pronoun "you" in it twice. Does either one of these pronouns refer to anyone today? If so, why?

saved1975 · May 7, 2014

SeaBass said:

Please note, Water in Jn 3:5, Is likened to the word, As I have shown you.
Please note, In Jn 3: 3, it says "Water", NOT Baptism. False religions say it means baptism.
If it was water baptism Jesus would have said.

The Bible is its own best commentary on Jn 3:5

SunnySoul · May 7, 2014

SeaBass said:

well John the Baptist is not actually speaking to us, but the baptism of water doesn't give you the Holy Spirit, nor does it save you...

Does water baptism save us

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