Does water baptism save us

[SunnySoul]

Romans 10:9-10 " if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved."

 

[SeaBass]

I did not change the verse. The I interpreted the greek correctly.

Remission of sin and baptism are two different tenses and person, they do not fit together in any language.

Here is what you posted:

Ths gift of the spirit is given only because of repentance. Those who were baptized did so because they had received remission of sin, as obedience to the command of Christ.


Here is what the verse actually says:

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

You have people baptized because they already have their sins remitted. Yet the order of the verse puts baptism BEFORE remission of sins and that baptism is FOR, in order to obtain (eis) the remission of sins.

Mt 26:28 "For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins."


Christ did not shed His blood BECAUSE people's sins were already remitted but shed His blood for, in order to obtain (eis) the remission of sins.

The tense oand persons do not change the verse by putting remission of sins BEFORE baptism.

Peter said ALL of you repent and EACH ONE of you be baptized for remission of sins.


The plural "ALL" and the singular "EACH ONE" refer to the SAME PEOPLE Peter was speaking to. Peter did not tell one group to all repent and another different group of people to be baptized. Peter's precise language did not allow any of the group to not repent or a single person in that group not to be baptized.

 

[Jabberjaw]

That is because his baptism is spiritual not physical. But you do not like to hear that. You would rather your OWN WORK apply.

Go ahead, try to save yourself. you will fail.

John said he WILL baptize. Unless you think John is a liar. then again..... It seams you like to make liars out of God and his people.

Again, nothing but opinion to back you up, every verse you point to has to do with water baptism other than the HS baptism of the Apostles and the house of Cornelius (the only two times recorded the Lord baptized), all others (all) are baptized with water, even those baptized with the HS baptism were baptized with water Acts 10:47-48, because there is only one salvific baptism and that is the one Christ commissioned the disciples to do, baptize with water making more disciples... Mat. 28:19

 

[SeaBass]

wrong.

no greek speaking person would have understood this, Baptism is not the religious word the church has made it out to be, it is an actual verb, with a subject, which must go together.

You do not interpret the verse "baptize in water" in death, "baptize in water" in burial. "baptize in water" in christ. you baptize into death, you baptize into water, you baptize into christ (actually it is God doing the work.)

Greek speaking people understand that baptizo means literal immersion. You are forcing a figurative meaning of baptizo in those texts.

Rom 6:4 "Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead.."

This baptism of Rom 6 is a burial, a burial in watery grave that one is raised up from. This command to be water baptized is that form of doctrine that had obeyed from the heart Rom 6:17, that freed them from sin/.justified.

One is not buried in the Holy Spirit, then raised up FROM that Holy Spirit.

Acts 8, the eunuch was WATER baptized. Acts 10:47,48 WATER baptism is commanded. No one was commanded to be figuratively baptized in some spirit.

 

[SeaBass]

Some of those scriptures are referring to the rebirth, Not water baptism.



Water baptism is a symbol of salvation. Not the thing that saves.

There is only one way to be saved, so they all refer to water baptism that saves.

 

[SeaBass]

Get out of Gods way and let HIM wash you. As he said, Unless I WASH YOU, you have no place with me.

Stop trusting in men, and start trusting in the power of God to clean you completely from your sin based in his own death.

Why did Jesus send disciples to water baptize and make more disciples to send to baptize if disciples are just in the way?

 

[SeaBass]

Obedience to the gospel. "believe in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, And YOU WILL BE SAVED"

Obedience to Gods law is impossible. we already failed to be obedient enough to save ourself.

That is why Christ came to die.

OBey the gospel, believe, Jn 8:24; repent, Lk 13:3,5; confess, Mt 10:32,33 be baptized, Mk 16:16.

It is not impossible to obey God's law, 1 Jn 5:3 "For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous."

No sense to command people to obey if it were impossible

 

[SeaBass]

Born of water, And washing of regeneration, IS NOT water baptism.

You can believe what you want to, But it doesn't change the truth, Which is, Water baptism doesn't save.

You still haven't told me how you got saved, [If you are saved], Or how you got baptised in water. [If you are]

Jn 3:5-----------spirit++++++++++water>>>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
1cor12;13-------spirit++++++++++baptized>>>>>>>>>in the body
Tts 3:5---------Holy Ghost+++++washing of reg.>>>>>saved


All three verses say the exact same thing.

born of water = baptized = washing of regeneration.

Perfect harmonization.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why did Jesus send disciples to water baptize and make more disciples to send to baptize if disciples are just in the way?

In the way of what? Who do you think saved them? The disciples? You put way to much faith in men. And way to little faith in God.

 

[fredjames]

I have a friend that's an alcoholic but he has been water baptized so his church says he is saved and that's where grace comes in

Since you are a believer of CHRIST, please tell us what is going on according to the Word of the New Covenant of LORD JESUS CHRIST?

Why has he become a alcoholic, since he is your friend, whom you are concern with?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

OBey the gospel, believe, Jn 8:24; repent, Lk 13:3,5; confess, Mt 10:32,33 be baptized, Mk 16:16.

It is not impossible to obey God's law, 1 Jn 5:3 "For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous."

No sense to command people to obey if it were impossible

Not of works. Give it up.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Look at the definition you have posted, it says exactly what we have been saying, SeaBass used the example of a die that has an image (like that of a coin) and when it strikes the metal, the image it creates on the coin is an antitype of the die, it is like your face in the mirror, the same but opposite, it is a image that is the same as the one the image is of only opposite,

Peter said in 1 Pet 3:20-21 that Like in the days of Noah, when water washed the sins away from the world, in like figure, or the antitype, or the image of, or the same but opposite as if your face looking in a mirror, water now washes away OUR sins.

Nope - SeaBass says water is the type and water is the antitype. I stated water is the type; spirit is the antitype.

John 4:2 (NKJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP](though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His disciples),

Jesus told his disciples to make disciples,

Matthew 28:19 (NKJV) Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

As you just showed with your quote of Mark 1:8, Jesus baptizes with the Holy Spirit, but the disciples (including John the baptizer) can only baptize with water, and Mat. 28:19 Jesus commissioned the disciples to make disciples, He did not say "Go therefore and ill make disciples of all nations, baptizing them"

You have proven that water baptism is the one salvific baptism of Eph 4:5, but remember, like faith alone wont save you, neither will baptism alone.

Correct - Jesus didn't baptize in water. Jesus baptizes in living water; i.e. holy Spirit. Since the resurrection of Jesus Christ, we are baptized with holy Spirit. Which is the one baptism of Eph. 4:5

I have asked and asked but haven't received an answer yet so maybe you can answer me - being born again of the Spirit - we are born of God - we are filled with His Spirit - God dwells in us via His Spirit - that is the new creature, the new man, - that is the being born again of Divine Nature. Now my question is - Can water do this?

 

[Jabberjaw]

In the way of what? Who do you think saved them? The disciples? You put way to much faith in men. And way to little faith in God.

Not of works. Give it up.

Matthew 28:19 (NKJV) Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Who did He tell to "Go" and what did He tell them to "make" and what did He say to do to those they taught?

and in the above verse, how does a disciple get in Gods way?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Matthew 28:19 (NKJV) Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Who did He tell to "Go" and what did He tell them to "make" and what did He say to do to those they taught?

and in the above verse, how does a disciple get in Gods way?

Again, Can a disciple save you?

He told them to make disciples. BAPTIZING THEM. Not go and baptize men making them disciples.

Keep on trying, you keep on failing.

I was baptized. By God. The one who led me to place my faiht in Christ, baptized me in water. Not to save me, I was already saved.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Needless to say you are far from what Paul is describing in scripture. You have clearly adopted the dualistic definitions of man that originated with Augustine. For a correct understanding of Paul check this explanation here

ORIGINAL SIN ACCORDING TO ST. PAUL​

So everything I quoted and studied concerning the old man nature and the new man nature is not Biblical. . . . OK. Sin is in us but we don't have to produce sins - the fruit. Sin will always be in us because we are still in the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: . . . . .

Let me ask you - was your 'mind of the flesh', your 'old nature', your 'old man' changed immediately upon your salvation are is it something you work with daily to line up with the 'new man' created upon your salvation?

 

[BradC]

Water means water I Jn 3:5. Proper exegesis is a word is to be taken literally unless something in the context shows it is being used figuratively. Nothing in the context shows either "water" or "spirit" is used figuratively.


Again, the bible is its own best commentary on Jn 3:5


Jn 3:5---------------spirit++++++++++water>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
1cor12:13----------spirit++++++++++baptized>>>>>>>in the body


When comparing two "new birth" verses it is obvious that water is baptism. So it is a man-made bias, nothing contextual, as to why some are working hard to make water mean anything other than what Jesus meant for it to mean: water baptism.


If you can make "water" in Jn 3:5 mean whatever you want it to mean, then any one can make any word in any verse mean whatever they want it to mean.

You are of the belief of baptismal regeneration which is error and a fallacy. You term the word 'water' (hudor) and make it a baptism of water when Christ used the same word in (John 4:14) with the woman at the well and those who would drink of the water that He gives to them, they would never thirst again, springing up unto everlasting life. This was not a baptism of water but a drink to quench a thirst. The same word is used in (Eph 5:26) as being washed (or bathed) by the water of the word, also in (Titus 3:5) as the washing (or bathing) of regeneration and renewal of the Spirit and this coordinates with (John 3:5). In (John 7:37,38) we see that man is invited to drink the water that Christ can give to him and out of his belly shall flow rivers of 'living' water.

If you take water baptism as a literal means of being born again, do you also take literally the example that Jesus set in (Jn 13:14-17) when He washed the feet of the disciples and told them to wash one another's feet also? Have you literally washed any feet lately? In (John 3:5) the verb, 'be born' is an aorist passive subjuctive verb that means the person (in order to be born again) must receive the action of being born both of the water and of the Spirit. The man does not initiate the action of the water or the Spirit, God does, because they both come from Him for a person to be born of the incorruptible seed of the word and of the Spirit in (1 Peter 1:23, John 3:6,8).

 

[posthuman]

evangelists don't "save" people.

that's the business Christ is in.

baptizers don't "save" people.

that's the business Christ is in.

teachers, prophets and ministers don't "save" people.

that's the business Christ is in.

Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!
(Revelation 7:10)

 

[notuptome]

YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU are putting the physical birth into Jn 3:5 for no reason than to protect your theological bias against God requiring water baptism to be saved.

No that is your problem. Water is not required for salvation. The bible does not teach it, the Lord Jesus did not teach it and the apostles did not teach it. You are the guy insisting on it despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. You do not make sense.

Jn 3;5; 1 Cor 12:13; Titus 3:5; Eph 5:26; 1 Pet 1:22 are all verse that deal with the new birth. Where is the physical birth in 1 Cor 12:13; Titus 3:5; Eph 5:26; 1 Pet 1:22?

OK but they do not teach baptismal regeneration. There is nothing in the bible to support baptismal regeneration.

Furthermore Jesus could realize a full grown adult standing in front of Him had ALREADY been physically born so why would Jesus command someone to be physically born when he already has?? Could Jesus not realize Nicodemus had already been physically born?

Well duh...that is exactly what Nicodemus said now isn't it? Jesus explained it to him. He eventually got it.

Has anyone ever asked you for direction to the local Wal-Mart? Did you respond by telling them to get to the "kingdom" of Wal-Mart you must be physically born. Once we determine if you have been physically born then you can take Hwy 5 and go 2 miles, turn right and there is the "kingdom" of Wal-Mart???

Sorry but imaginary people cannot get anywhere. The plausibility of your position is painfully absent. People who are not born have no need of a Savior.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Cobus]

Mt 3:11 has been discussed a few times already. John was not speaking to anyone today for neither pronoun "you" in Mt 3:11 refers to anyone today.

Right this is where I obey 1 Cor 14 and let you be ignorant. ... But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

So I will let you be ignorant. The serses you qoute for your water baptism argument does not say ONCE In Water... It says in THE NAME of the Father Son and Holy Ghost (Spiritual baptism) And in the Name of Jesus (Spiritual Baptsim) Not once is teh word water in the verses, I wonder why? Maybe becasue Jesus knew that HIS BPATISM is the final step of Salvation.

John did speak to all of us. The Gospel of God is TIMELESS. If Jesus said to the disciples that ..YOU dhall know the Truth and the Truth shall make you FREE, He also says it to me.... Look how FREE I am from fasle teachings, even of baptism in water.... I am being baptized by Jesus with Truth EVERY day... And I made free from false teachers and CROCODILES that just want to drag you to water.... hahahahah.

 

[Jabberjaw]

Nope - SeaBass says water is the type and water is the antitype. I stated water is the type; spirit is the antitype.

When you look in the mirror, do you see your spirit? then water and spirit being two different things cannot be an image of each other.

Correct - Jesus didn't baptize in water. Jesus baptizes in living water; i.e. holy Spirit. Since the resurrection of Jesus Christ, we are baptized with holy Spirit.

Which is the one baptism of Eph. 4:5

You or anyone else has yet to prove that, all 8 conversions in the book of acts were baptized with water, even the house of Cornelius who was baptized with the Holy Spirit, were baptized with water in Acts 10:47-48, why did Peter baptize them in water if Peter knew there is only one baptism Eph 4:5? because he knew even though they had been baptized with the Holy Spirit just like himself, they were not yet saved...

I have asked and asked but haven't received an answer yet so maybe you can answer me - being born again of the Spirit - we are born of God - we are filled with His Spirit - God dwells in us via His Spirit - that is the new creature, the new man, - that is the being born again of Divine Nature. Now my question is - Can water do this?

If you believe all those things can be, do you believe they can be bestowed upon a sinner? yet I have shown with scripture that water baptism is what puts us "into Christ" Romans 6:3, putting us in contact with the blood of Christ washing away our sins Rev 1:5.