K
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Move the comma one place to the right and the meaning of the statement changes. There was no punctuation in the original text. The punctuation was added by translators.
[SUP]43[/SUP] And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise."
(Luk 23:43 NKJ)
[SUP]43[/SUP] And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you today, you will be with Me in Paradise."
(Luk 23:43 NKJ)
Do you see the difference in these two statements?
Last edited:
That's correct. However, that's not the only passage on salvation. We have to take the totality of passages that address salvation to draw a conclusion.
K
Kerry
Guest
Reckon why if was so important why didn't the Holy Spirit point out that they were baptized. I will tell you why, it takes the focus off of what really happened and that is the cross. With out the cross there is no point in being baptized, you might as well take a bath. With out the cross there is no hope.
What you are doing and hope it doesn't make you mad. But if it does oh well. You are saying that the cross of Christ is not enough, there is something we must do and that's right we must believe and nothing else. Or does the scripture say that Abraham believed and stuck his head in water and it was accounted unto him as righteousness. Righteousness is a free gift, provided by baptism, wrong, by the cross and nothing else.l
Baptism in Father Son and Holy Spirit is not a symbol, baptism in water is a symbol.
Even if one baptized in water 100 time as long as not baptized in Father Son and Holy spirit, he is not save.
Do you believe if one being baptize in water and every day he murder, rob and rape, he save because water baptism?
Brother Butch5,
Look Like You are Catholic. I am sorry if not.
Catholic baptized by sprinkle.
Baptize mean Immersions.
Is sprinkle not a symbol of Immersions?
So by doing sprinkle on baptism ritual itself is symbol. Why do you say water baptism is not a symbol
Look Like You are Catholic. I am sorry if not.
Catholic baptized by sprinkle.
Baptize mean Immersions.
Is sprinkle not a symbol of Immersions?
So by doing sprinkle on baptism ritual itself is symbol. Why do you say water baptism is not a symbol
That argument is a non sequitur. Jesus told his apostles to make disciples by baptizing them. If Jesus said, to baptize, then one is to baptize. It doesn't add to or detract from anything else that happened.
I don't understand why you're arguing your position when you're denying the passages that oppose you're position. You're position is in opposition to the Historic faith.
I'm not Catholic, but I don't see why what Catholics do would have any bearing on the subject. I say it's not a symbol because it's where God forgives sins, that's not a symbol that having one's sins forgiven.
John 13:7Jesus answered and said to him, "What I do you do not realize now, but you will understand hereafter." 8Peter said to Him, "Never shall You wash my feet!" Jesus answered him, "If I do not wash you, you have no part with Me." 9Simon Peter said to Him, "Lord, then wash not only my feet, but also my hands and my head."…
Is that scripture clear enough for you?
I don't think anyone is arguing that water baptism alone saves. I believe everyone is assuming faith in the argument.
K
Kerry
Guest
There is nothing wrong with baptism, just like there is nothing wrong with cutting the church grass. But, when some one basis there salvation on whether they have been baptized or not then that is wrong. It has nothing to do with it. It is based and founded on the work of the cross. If not then why didn't Jesus just baptize everybody and not go to the cross. He had to go to the cross and He even asked the Father if there was another way to let this cup pass from me, Praise and glory to His name forever and forever that He said let your will be done.
K
Kerry
Guest
B
BradC
Guest
K
Kerry
Guest
It's not wrong. God has established at way for people to be saved, they are to have faith in Christ, and the way they enter that covenant is through baptism. Paul said,
[SUP]26[/SUP] For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
[SUP]27[/SUP] For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
[SUP]28[/SUP] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
[SUP]29[/SUP] And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise
If a person doesn't put on Christ they are not going to be saved. It's through baptism that one puts on Christ.
Paul also said,
YLT
Romans 6:1 What, then, shall we say? shall we continue in the sin that the grace may abound?
[SUP]2[/SUP] let it not be! we who died to the sin -- how shall we still live in it?
[SUP]3[/SUP] are ye ignorant that we, as many as were baptized to Christ Jesus, to his death were baptized?
[SUP]4[/SUP] we were buried together, then, with him through the baptism to the death, that even as Christ was raised up out of the dead through the glory of the Father, so also we in newness of life might walk.
[SUP]5[/SUP] For, if we have become planted together to the likeness of his death, so also we shall be of the rising again;
(Rom 6:1-5 YLT)
Paul said here, if we have been baptized we shall be of the resurrection. He's tied participation in the resurrection to having been baptized.
They taught him this :
Acts 19:4-5 (NKJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Then Paul said, "John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus." [SUP]5 [/SUP]When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
The same baptism Paul had :
Acts 22:16 (NKJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.'
They taught them the same thing Jesus told his disciples to do :
Matthew 28:19 (NKJV)
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
See the "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" ? that means it must be done by their authority, the Holy Spirit does not need the authority of the Holy Spirit, but the disciples need the authorization of all three...
Why do you think John was called the forerunner? and Johns baptism was not brought by Moses, it was brought by God through John the baptizer.
K
Kerry
Guest
K
Kerry
Guest
Okay what would John's baptism ( or any other baptism) would have meant if Jesus did not go to the cross?
It wouldn't mean anything, but, that doesn't mean it's not necessary. A car won't run without an engine, but, just because you put an engine in it doesn't mean it doesn't need gas