-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Please note, the Gentiles in Acts 10, were ALREADY saved, baptised in the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues, but they weren't baptised in water at that time.
Then you go into Acts 15, and see they the Gentiles heard the gospel, believed it, received the Holy Ghost and were pure by faith, NOT BY WATER BAPTISM.
You are putting your own thoughts.
I am showing you what the Bible says.
The point is, can one be saved who never heard the gospel? No, therefore preaching saves for it is how the gospel that saves is spread.
Water baptism remits sins, Acts 2:38, baptism with the Holy Spirit does NOT save/remit sins, so Cornelius was lost in his sins until he obeyed the command to be water baptized. Baptism with the Holy Spirit had nothing to do with his personal salvation.
--God sent an angel to Cornelius telling Cornelius to send for Peter
--God gave Peter a vision that Gentiles were 'clean'
--God baptized Gentiles with the Holy Ghost
When Peter told the Jews about these actions of God, the Jews "held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life." Acts 11:18. So the purpose of these actions by God was to prove to the Jews salvation was not just for the Jews, but is also meant for the Gentiles. So baptism with the HG had nothing to do with Cornelius' personal salvation but was a means God used to show the Jews salvation is to go to the Gentiles.
Preaching saves for Cornelius would be saved by "words" Acts 11:14, and the HG fell upon Cornelius just as Peter began to speak those saving "words" of the gospel, so Cornelius did not know the gospel message when the HG fell upon him.
Last edited:
The text in Acts 15 DOES NOT SAY whether they were water baptized or not,which was NOT the point of chapter 15. The point of chapter 15 is about Gentiles being place under circumcision and the Mosaic law. Chapter 15 is NOT about water baptism. You can NOT say from that text that THEY WEREN'T water baptized. You're forcing the text to say that.
Peter also said in Acts 15:11 "But we believe that we (Jews) shall be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in like manner as they (Gentiles)."
There is just one way to be saved and Jews and Gentiles are saved in that one 'like manner way'. And the like manner way the Jews in Acts 2 and the Gentiles in Acts 10 (along with the eunuch, Simon, Samaritans, the jailer, Lydia, etc) were all saved was by baptism.
The point of Acts 15: 7--9, Is to prove that water baptism doesn't save.
The Gentiles heard the gospel, believed it, got saved [and were purified by FAITH], baptised in the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues. But they weren't baptised in water.
Your argument is with God.
Acts 15:7-9 does not say "water baptism does not say". You are obviously forcing/adding that idea into God's Word.
The Gentiles did hear the Gospel Acts 15: 7--9, They believed it, They were saved, purified, baptised in the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues, All this before they were baptised in water., Proving that water baptism doesn't save.
Your argument is with God.
Water baptism DOES NOT remit sins, in Acts 2: 38, According to the Greek, it's the REPENTING that remits sins, Not baptism.
You said you were saved through water baptism, and that was by immersion, But if you weren't saved before you were baptised, You had no right to be baptised.
Water baptism was the one like manner way Jews and Gentiles are saved: the Jews Acts 2; the eunuch, Simon, Samaritans Acts 8; Saul Acts 9/22, Gentiles Acts 10; Lydia, jailer Acts 16, Corinthians Acts 18.
Water baptism is for the remission of sins Acts 2:38. Since no one will be saved in his unremitted sins, then no one can be saved until they are water baptized.
This is wholly untrue. You do not have a Godly knowledge of the scriptures to make such a statement. The blood of Christ is completely sufficient to atone for sin. The blood of Christ alone is able to atone for sin. Water cannot atone for sin. The only baptism that remits sin is the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Prove this, or retract, you keep saying the Greek says this and that, you don't know Greek, I have asked you this how many times now, show "with the Greek" that your statement to be true that "it's the REPENTING that remits sins, Not baptism",
Show us this IN THE GREEK, if you cannot, you should quit listening to what ever website your getting this from until you can prove it true, you like so many others appeal to the Greek not for better understanding as it can and should be, but to twist the English in attempt to make your man made doctrine appear to be true since many people (like you) don't know Greek.
You don't get it. You can have a question that can be answered BOTH yes or no depending on the frame of reference.
IE Are works works necessary for salvation? The answer to that question can be BOTH yes or no depending on the frame of reference. If one says that works are the way that you are saved then of course the answer is no. We are saved by faith. But if the frame of reference is that works are a necessary OUTCOME of saving faith then the answer of course is yes.
Again you are missing the point. Baptism is a RESPONSE to being saved. Again it is faith in action. It is the FAITH that saves. We are told to repent,believe and be baptized. And if one has a living breathing one will do so. It's not rocket science EG. It is so simple a little child can understand it.
Are you trying to say that any works that we do are "earning" our salvation? That is what it sounds like. It sounds like all you can believe in is a TOTALLY and completely PASSIVE faith that does NOTHING. If that is not what you are saying then please define it.
And again those things all are to COME OUT OF A SAVING FAITH. It appears you keep wanting to put the cart before the horse.
How much water does it take to baptize a person? Do you honestly believe that during Pentecost they did full body immersions,during the dry season,in the middle of a desert, with the only source of water coming from UNDER the city and you could only get there by a ladder?
Are you really saying that when God told them to use BOTH blood and WATER for cleansing,He wasn't pointing them to Christ,and the very real fact that Jesus shed both blood and WATER,and the water that Jesus shed has no meaning?
By the way John says this
1 John 5
6 This is the one who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.7 For there are three that testify:8 the[a] Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.9 We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God,which he has given about his Son.10 Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony.Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son.11 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.
By the way the water is symbolized in baptism,the blood in the Lord's supper,and those are the two that Jesus gave us that tie into His death.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
This would be true if that is what people are saying, But it is not. People are saying salvation is a result of baptism in water. Not as a necessary outcome. Why do you think we are having the discussion in here?
Yes it is simple. So why are they not seeing it? They are saying salvation is a result of baptism. Not the result of faith. Again, What do you think we are discussing in here?
As you said earlier, it is obvious you are not listening to what I say. How do you get this from what I said? Why don't you define it?
And I am getting sick of this passive faith crap! I asked. If your going to add ONE WORK OF RIGHTOEUSNESS as they are doing to be saved, why not add them all? How can you not see this?
I am NOT saying we should not do this. In fact I have already stated this to youat least twice now. so what is so hard to understand?
No. I am exposing a false gospel of a works based salvation.
Your not reading anything anyone says,
you have half the people in this thread stating that baptism is a RESULT of faith, thus a result of salvation, and the other half saying salvation is a result of baptism.
So which side are you going to take?Is water baptism a RESULT of obedience based on the true faith that already has saved you. Or is salvation a result of the work of Water baptism, Which is what myself and others are exposing??
As I already said, (And your first response here shows) you can not have it both ways.
Do you even know what the word means? It means full immersion, Anything else is not baptism, It would be dipping (Greek Bapto) or sprinkling (greek Rhantizo) which is it? were they baptized, bapto'd or rhantizo'd?
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
the blood testified of Jesus suffering and pain.
the water testified that he was truly dead
The spirit (through the word) testifies that these two things occurred.
Has nothing to do with water baptism. It has to do with what saved us.
Yes water baptism MAY symbolize this, But that would be taking it a little far don;t you think? Do we focus on the cross. or do we focus on water baptism?
The jews focused on circumcision and not what it represented. that is why they demanded everyone get circumcised. Many in the church are doing the exact same thing with baptism.
A
Alligator
Guest
A
Alligator
Guest
Well after this little gem, it certainly proves you don't have Godly knowledge. Have you even read Acts 2:38? It's really extremely simple. Now you may not like what it says, but that doesn't change anything.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
It certainly does not say what you think it says.
And again with the attacks. is that all you know how to do? Just because someone does not agree with you does not mean they do not have Godly knowledge.
Acts 2:38 is not untrue...."...be baptized...for the remission of sins.."
Rev 1:5; Jn 10:34; Rom 6:3-5; Christ's blood that washes away sins was shed in His death and water baptism puts one into Christ's death. No one here that I have seen says water atones for sins, so that in another strawman. And nowhere does the bible say baptism with the Holy Spirit remit sins.
Such contradictions. Baptism is NOT atoning for sin. Again, total misunderstanding of terminology used in scripture.
But baptism DOES remit sin which is possible because of Christ's atonement, propitiation of the sin of the world.
It is the baptism of the Holy Spirit. John 3:5 again. It is also entrance into Christ, the ONLY way one can enter. Thus it is regenerative because it renews the lost relationship man had with God through Adam. That is all explained also in Rom 6:3-4.