Salvation Not Possible Without Works
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You have the cart ahead of the horse.
Noah and his family were obedient, because the HAD BEEN SAVED.
JUST LIKE ABRAHAM, NOAH BELIEVED GOD, so at that very moment it was counted unto him for righteousness, before he ever cut the first tree down.
Genuinely Believing GOD, produces obedience.
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It amazes me people try to separate faith from work (or reaction). True faith brings about action. If you believe that falling off of a building will kill you, then you will take precautions so that you don't fall. If you are, let's say, a window washer. You put on your harness/safety strap so that you will be attached to something that you believe will not plummet to the ground. Now I can and do agree that Jesus fulfilled the law. But I will not go as far as to say that He encourages us not to work.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? [SUP]15 [/SUP]If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, [SUP]16 [/SUP]and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? [SUP]17 [/SUP]Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” [SUP]19 [/SUP]You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. [SUP]20 [/SUP]But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless? [SUP]21 [/SUP]Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar? [SUP]22 [/SUP]You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected; [SUP]23 [/SUP]and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness,” and he was called the friend of God. [SUP]24 [/SUP]You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. [SUP]25 [/SUP]In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? [SUP]26 [/SUP]For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.
Yeah, I realize that James has been quoted, but there it is one more time.
The gift is free. The work is due. Not as a means to salvation, but as an expected reaction to it. As parents, my wife and I have went out of our way before to get something for our children. It is very frustrating when they look at it, have a displeased look on their face, and say something like, "Ugh, that's not really what I wanted." One time we bought one of those Hummer cars that kids can drive in the yard (because it was about $100 cheaper than the corvette that they wanted - Hey, I am not rich) and they complained about it. I tell you right now, that made me angry. When Jesus came down, lived on the earth, suffered and died for us and we go, "Ugh, well, thanks", it is not good.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? [SUP]15 [/SUP]If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, [SUP]16 [/SUP]and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? [SUP]17 [/SUP]Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” [SUP]19 [/SUP]You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. [SUP]20 [/SUP]But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless? [SUP]21 [/SUP]Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar? [SUP]22 [/SUP]You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected; [SUP]23 [/SUP]and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness,” and he was called the friend of God. [SUP]24 [/SUP]You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. [SUP]25 [/SUP]In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? [SUP]26 [/SUP]For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.
Yeah, I realize that James has been quoted, but there it is one more time.
The gift is free. The work is due. Not as a means to salvation, but as an expected reaction to it. As parents, my wife and I have went out of our way before to get something for our children. It is very frustrating when they look at it, have a displeased look on their face, and say something like, "Ugh, that's not really what I wanted." One time we bought one of those Hummer cars that kids can drive in the yard (because it was about $100 cheaper than the corvette that they wanted - Hey, I am not rich) and they complained about it. I tell you right now, that made me angry. When Jesus came down, lived on the earth, suffered and died for us and we go, "Ugh, well, thanks", it is not good.
belief does NOT mean salvation. It did justify him, made him acceptable to God. But he was not absoluetly saved until after he was obedient. Same with us, We are NOT absolutely saved until the end when it can be determined that one was faithful to the end, then we will inherit the promise of eternal life, not before. It is a possession on trial.
S
Faith and belief are synonymous in scripture. Righteousness is given thru faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. Romans 3:22
we are made righteous the instant we make Jesus our lord and we are citizens of heaven. Your misinterpretation of scripture makes room to keep your good ole boy club fully intact.
we are made righteous the instant we make Jesus our lord and we are citizens of heaven. Your misinterpretation of scripture makes room to keep your good ole boy club fully intact.
precisely. We are made right with God, made acceptable to God, put into a correct relatinship. But Justification by faith is NOT salvation.
Saying I am incorrect is one thing, Can you prove with evidence from the early Church that justification by faith was absolute, finite the giving of eternal life. Kinda dismisses the rest of the NT.
Such texts as...1 Corinthians 9:24
"Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it."
Then Paul follows with this...."But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
We are qualified by faith. It is all through faith. When one loses faith, one also loses the prize, eternal life.
Here is ONE more.....1 Thessalonians 5:9
For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Not to mention I Pet 1:3-5 power of God THROUGH FAITH, and we shall inherit eternal life, the promise awaiting those that are faithful. Nothing about attaining it simply by believing.
"
Saying I am incorrect is one thing, Can you prove with evidence from the early Church that justification by faith was absolute, finite the giving of eternal life. Kinda dismisses the rest of the NT.
Such texts as...1 Corinthians 9:24
"Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it."
Then Paul follows with this...."But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
We are qualified by faith. It is all through faith. When one loses faith, one also loses the prize, eternal life.
Here is ONE more.....1 Thessalonians 5:9
For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Not to mention I Pet 1:3-5 power of God THROUGH FAITH, and we shall inherit eternal life, the promise awaiting those that are faithful. Nothing about attaining it simply by believing.
"
I am reading you posts. Do you read you own posts? You posted the following above:
The ability to choose to submit to Jesus Christ, is ONE of the things the Holy Spirit EMPOWERS us to do. It is with our born again spiritual mind that we make that Choice.
The implication of this is that man has no ability to choose unless he is "empowered" by the Holy Spirit to choose. So no man has the free will ability to choose for himself to submit to the Lord. The only ones that can submit to the Lord would be only those the Holy Spirit "empowers". So you are still giving man 0% control over his own salvation.
You quote Joshua 24:15. How could they choose for themselves today if the Holy Spirit did not "empower" them to choose?
If the Holy Spirit has to 'empower" one to choose then he is not choosing for himself.
Yes, Christ saved us from death and sin. Man has nothing to do with. The fact that we are justified by faith which is also a gift from God. Even eternal life is a gift, but eternal life requires man to live according to the commandments of Christ. If we do, then we shall abtain eternal life. James 1:24 states clearly that one is justified by works and NOT faith ONLY. It is works through faith, or of faith. Without the works, faith is dead, meaningless, worthless, it is the same faith Satan has.