Salvation Not Possible Without Works

[homwardbound]

Yes, the Lord sees our motives and searches the hearts.

praying for us all to come to end of the energies of our own flesh that just wants and desires for pats on the back, that keep us thinking we are doing Good, when we quite possibly are not, with the wrong motive

Father please I just want to knoiw you serve you, and do as you want me to, and love all, not just those that love me back. teach me truth from error that sets me free in doing exactly this and all those that want to know you and not selfishly

Giving up self is just not easily done
Matthew 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

Giving up self is giving up the center to Father and in essence makes you center so to speak a great mystery

 

[VCO]

Cart and horse - Counted as righteous by faith, but if that faith hadn't caused him to build, then where would he and his family have been?

Obedience because we LOVE HIM, validates that the Faith is genuine, IT DOES NOT ADD TO ONE'S SALVATION, IT IS FINISHED!

 

[Timeline]

Obedience because we LOVE HIM, validates that the Faith is genuine, IT DOES NOT ADD TO ONE'S SALVATION, IT IS FINISHED!

So all are saved.

 

[Jackson123]

In order for one to become a Christian, he MUST faithfully obey God in doing works of believing, Jn 8;24; repentance, Lk 13:3,5 confession, Matt 10:32,33 and submit to baptism, Mk 16:16.


Then upon becoming a Christian and remaining saved, the Christian MUST maintain an obedient faith, Rev 2:10, keeping Christ works Rev 2:26, continue walking in the light so all his sin can continually be cleansed, 1 Jn 1:7 and do good works that God pre-ordained Christians to wallk in, Eph 2:10, Matt 25:32ff


It therefore is IMPOSSIBLE for a man to do nothing his entire life and yet still be saved. No verse says "do nothing" to become a Christian and "do nothing" to remain a faithful Christian.



A thought:

1 Tim 5:8 "But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."

If I had to go out and get a job to WORK in order to provide for those of my own house, else be a faithless infidel, does that secular WORK I am doing mean that I am trying to merit my salvation, ie, keep from being a lost, faithless infidel?

If eternal security were true, does that mean I do not have to work to provide for my house and can still be saved as a fatihless infidel?



So can anyone demonstrate how a man can never do ANY KIND of work his entire life yet still be saved?

Work here must be mean work of love, not work in the sense of cheating or robbing or other bad work.

In order to do good work one must have a faith in Jesus first. And because one have a faith in Jesus then he do what Jesus teach.

Jesus said the branch can not bear fruit of it self.

So the branch have to abide in Jesus than Jesus produce the fruit through the branch. So the branch never being producer, only distributor.

If salvation by work then not a branch will save, because not a branch able to produce fruit/good work by itself.

That why salvation is only by faith then this salvation produce good work.

Work never cause salvation but salvation cause good work.




[SUP]4[/SUP] Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
[SUP]5[/SUP] I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
[SUP]6[/SUP] If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
[SUP]7[/SUP] If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
[SUP]8[/SUP] Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
[SUP]9[/SUP] As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
[SUP]10[/SUP] If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
[SUP]11[/SUP] These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
[SUP]12[/SUP] This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

 

[newbirth]

praying for us all to come to end of the energies of our own flesh that just wants and desires for pats on the back, that keep us thinking we are doing Good, when we quite possibly are not, with the wrong motive

Father please I just want to knoiw you serve you, and do as you want me to, and love all, not just those that love me back. teach me truth from error that sets me free in doing exactly this and all those that want to know you and not selfishly

Giving up self is just not easily done
Matthew 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

Giving up self is giving up the center to Father and in essence makes you center so to speak a great mystery

If the churches in this world only knew! If they only knew HOW WRONG, how totally unscriptural most of their teachings were! And, standing out as a beacon above all of their errors is their teaching on LOVE
LOVE is a magical word which seems to fix any problem today. You should LOVE sinners, LOVE evil people, LOVE rebellious children, nations should LOVE each other, and ministers beg, plead, and practically bribe people each week to get them to show more LOVE.
But they’re wrong! Oh, Love – that is, what GOD means when He says “Love” – Love would solve all these problems, there is no question of that. BUT! No one teaches you how to get it! Because they don’t know the road to REAL, SCRIPTURAL LOVE!
Did you know that the process – the long, arduous PROCESS which ultimately produces REAL LOVE is outlined in the Bible? I’m not talking about the fake, syrupy nonsense called LOVE by everyone today, but TRUE, sincere love, unfaked, unpretended.
You see, you can’t just START “loving” people, just like that. You can’t do it because someone tells you to, or even because you want to. It can’t happen! It’s physically impossible to create real love overnight! Did you know that your Bible teaches that?
Read more TheSimpleAnswers.com

 

[newbirth]

Work here must be mean work of love, not work in the sense of cheating or robbing or other bad work.

In order to do good work one must have a faith in Jesus first. And because one have a faith in Jesus then he do what Jesus teach.

Jesus said the branch can not bear fruit of it self.

So the branch have to abide in Jesus than Jesus produce the fruit through the branch. So the branch never being producer, only distributor.

If salvation by work then not a branch will save, because not a branch able to produce fruit/good work by itself.

That why salvation is only by faith then this salvation produce good work.

Work never cause salvation but salvation cause good work.




[SUP]4[/SUP] Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
[SUP]5[/SUP] I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
[SUP]6[/SUP] If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
[SUP]7[/SUP] If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
[SUP]8[/SUP] Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
[SUP]9[/SUP] As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
[SUP]10[/SUP] If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
[SUP]11[/SUP] These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
[SUP]12[/SUP] This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

If the churches in this world only knew! If they only knew HOW WRONG, how totally unscriptural most of their teachings were! And, standing out as a beacon above all of their errors is their teaching on LOVE
LOVE is a magical word which seems to fix any problem today. You should LOVE sinners, LOVE evil people, LOVE rebellious children, nations should LOVE each other, and ministers beg, plead, and practically bribe people each week to get them to show more LOVE.
But they’re wrong! Oh, Love – that is, what GOD means when He says “Love” – Love would solve all these problems, there is no question of that. BUT! No one teaches you how to get it! Because they don’t know the road to REAL, SCRIPTURAL LOVE!
Did you know that the process – the long, arduous PROCESS which ultimately produces REAL LOVE is outlined in the Bible? I’m not talking about the fake, syrupy nonsense called LOVE by everyone today, but TRUE, sincere love, unfaked, unpretended.
You see, you can’t just START “loving” people, just like that. You can’t do it because someone tells you to, or even because you want to. It can’t happen! It’s physically impossible to create real love overnight! Did you know that your Bible teaches that?
Read more TheSimpleAnswers.com

 

[Jackson123]

If the churches in this world only knew! If they only knew HOW WRONG, how totally unscriptural most of their teachings were! And, standing out as a beacon above all of their errors is their teaching on LOVE
LOVE is a magical word which seems to fix any problem today. You should LOVE sinners, LOVE evil people, LOVE rebellious children, nations should LOVE each other, and ministers beg, plead, and practically bribe people each week to get them to show more LOVE.
But they’re wrong! Oh, Love – that is, what GOD means when He says “Love” – Love would solve all these problems, there is no question of that. BUT! No one teaches you how to get it! Because they don’t know the road to REAL, SCRIPTURAL LOVE!
Did you know that the process – the long, arduous PROCESS which ultimately produces REAL LOVE is outlined in the Bible? I’m not talking about the fake, syrupy nonsense called LOVE by everyone today, but TRUE, sincere love, unfaked, unpretended.
You see, you can’t just START “loving” people, just like that. You can’t do it because someone tells you to, or even because you want to. It can’t happen! It’s physically impossible to create real love overnight! Did you know that your Bible teaches that?
Read more TheSimpleAnswers.com

Yes brother. to love mean to warn people when they walk in the wrong direction.

If they believe in total unscriptural teaching then we must warn them in the seek of love.

The people that do not want warn other is not love but hypocritical love. Look like love but hate and ignorant.

 

[VCO]

So all are saved.

NO, all sins were paid for on the Cross except ONE. It is that very one that will eternally remain unforgiven, that will cause their sentencing to the Lake of Fire for eternity.

That sin is Blaspheming the work of the Holy Spirit, who tries to get all mankind to believe in GOD receiving HIM AS LORD, which means MASTER. Thus rejecting the Holy Spirit's efforts to bring us to that Saving Faith, choosing instead to remain lord of one's own life, or bowing to another false god, certainly will lead one to the eternal destruction of Hell.

Mark 3:28-29 (HCSB)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] I assure you: People will be forgiven for all sins and whatever blasphemies they may blaspheme.
[SUP]29 [/SUP] But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”—

 

[SeaBass]

Jesus said that no man comes to the Father except the Holy Spirit draw him. Why did Jesus say that?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

The HS is the author of the word of God, and one is drawn when he is tarught, hears and learns that word, then one of his own will comes to Christ. One cannot be drawn to what he has not been taught, heard or learned and the HS does that teaching/hearing/learning/drawing through His word, and not some magical, irresistible drawing apart from the word of God. So all those that come to Christ must first be drawn through the HS's word.

 

[SeaBass]

I think what you fail to grasp is that when god set the planets in motion he knew where they would be at every point in the future from whence he created them. He didn't need to tell them where to be because they would be where they would be. It is the same with man and the choices that he makes. Those that are saved by grace have as works as a symptom of the saved inner state. So...in a sense you can blame God for the lost souls because they would be what they would be from the beginning of creation. What you are doing is nothing more than doubting Gods ability to make things for His own purpose. He is God and does not care if you blame him for anything.

I have a role in my relationship to Christ and that is not your place to intervene.

Foreknowledge does not necessitate predetermination.

 

[SeaBass]

What do you say about... one being born again is a spirit can not sin does not sin can live how ever they want sin as much as they want can remain a child of God eternally saved....

BEing a Christian does not allow one to live anyway he cares. Christians are transformed (Rom 2:12) from the world to live godly lives and must remain that way to be saved.

 

[SeaBass]

Okay you show me your Faith created by your works? Boast please, boast

Was James boasting when he said "... and I will shew thee my faith by my works."?


No, he was proving a faith void is works (faith alone) is dead and cannot justify.

 

[SeaBass]

You still do not see the Mercy do you, It is all God and none of mankind

Matthew 9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

You seem to have a self-righteous attitude, do you?

So if it is all God and mankind has no role in his own salvation, then God will save all mankind unconditionally then?

 

[SeaBass]

I deny self-works, one's works program to be saved and or stay saved. Any works that are done are by my Father in Heaven through Son's finished work for me to make me righteous as one with Father in Spirit and truth

Acts 10:35 is not "self-works" but obeying God's righteousness/commands.

 

[SeaBass]

For at Judgment man will not have any excuse to where he goes for all will know consciously and have made their choice consciously and will know the consequences of their choice made
To Believe or not believe, that is what is left, and at Judgement, I am sure there will be complainers as to where they are going as if they did not know.
Matthew 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
Colossians 1:9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

Philippians 1:9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;
Hebrews 10:17

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]17 [/SUP]and their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Hebrews 10:18

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]18 [/SUP]Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

So you agree that one can come to Christ only if the Holy Spirit "empowers" him to do so? (Can I get a simple 'yes' or 'no' then we can go from there.)

 

[SeaBass]

Yes, for Chirst is the way, the truth and the new life that brings us the connection, read John 16, and 17
Why did the Apostles have to wait, if they did not need God? Why did Paul,lay hands on those that had only received water Baptism, John's Baptism?
Are you saying we do not get this empowerment today and we are on our own to be righteous before God?

So here you say "yes".

So those that do not come to Christ would be the Holy SPirit's fault for failing to empower them to come to Christ. So those lost are not lost due to their own shosrtcomings, but lost due to a shortcoming of the HS empowering them.

 

[SeaBass]

Who here is putting fault and blame on God?

You are if you say the only way men can come to Christ is if the HS has to first empowers them.


So according to you, if I do not come to Christ, whose fault is that?

(And do not say it is my own fault for you have taken all accountability and responsibility away from me, 0% coming to Christ and put it all, 100% upon the HS)

 

[SeaBass]

Yeah, and as many have the wrong motive the day will come when one hears "I never knew you" you who work iniquity for your own gain.
Now I know not who is who, but I am settled in trusting God through Son it is done and I am elated as King David was when he saw afar off and said:
Psalm 100:4 Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name.

And today. I and all who see hear in Spirit and truth are looking back with this as entered today not entering,
But you as of yet are not seeing your works as filthy rags are you?

Christ said he never knew them for they did not DO the will of the Father. There is "works salvation" for you.

And nowhere does God call doing/obeying His will "filthy rags". Doing/obeying God's will is called "righteousness".....he that doeth rightoeusness is righteous, 1 Jn 3:7.

 

[SeaBass]

Work here must be mean work of love, not work in the sense of cheating or robbing or other bad work.

In order to do good work one must have a faith in Jesus first. And because one have a faith in Jesus then he do what Jesus teach.

Jesus said the branch can not bear fruit of it self.

So the branch have to abide in Jesus than Jesus produce the fruit through the branch. So the branch never being producer, only distributor.

If salvation by work then not a branch will save, because not a branch able to produce fruit/good work by itself.

That why salvation is only by faith then this salvation produce good work.

Work never cause salvation but salvation cause good work.




[SUP]4[/SUP] Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
[SUP]5[/SUP] I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
[SUP]6[/SUP] If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
[SUP]7[/SUP] If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
[SUP]8[/SUP] Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
[SUP]9[/SUP] As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
[SUP]10[/SUP] If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
[SUP]11[/SUP] These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
[SUP]12[/SUP] This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

Whatever kind of work you want to call it, but salvation cannot be maintained by a Christian if he does not do good works, works of love. Can a Christian be slothful, lazy not providing for his own house being worse than an infidel but yet be saved anyway?

 

[VCO]

Christ said he never knew them for they did not DO the will of the Father. There is "works salvation" for you.

And nowhere does God call doing/obeying His will "filthy rags". Doing/obeying God's will is called "righteousness".....he that doeth rightoeusness is righteous, 1 Jn 3:7.

Seabass, what you lack is the understanding that DOING GOOD WORKS, for the wrong motive, counts for NOTHING.

The ONLY MOTIVE GOD WILL HONOR is doing them only because we LOVE HIM.

Doing them to gain something or earn Salvation is the WRONG MOTIVE for doing them, thus they count for NOTHING.

John 14:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15[/SUP] “If you love Me(= Saved), you will keep My commands.

Clearly the MOTIVE for Keeping His Commandments is ONLY BECAUSE WE LOVE HIM.

1 John 5:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

Clearly the MOTIVE for Keeping His Commandments is ONLY BECAUSE WE LOVE HIM.

To KEEP them to Earn Salvation or to try rub GOD the right way so that He saves you, IS THE WRONG MOTIVE, and they are absolutely totally useless to GOD.

Isaiah 64:6 (NKJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But we are all like an unclean thing, And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags (Because those works were not done out of the pure motive of LOVE FOR GOD, instead they were done to try to manipulate GOD. NOTICE that NOTHING they did measured up to GOD's standard, thus the Forgiveness is purely out of GOD's grace and mercy.); We all fade as a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, Have taken us away.


So much for earning Salvation, you have NONE, if your motive for doing good works is NOT purely because you LOVE HIM because HE showed HIS LOVE for you by saving YOU when you did not deserve it.

Romans 5:8-11 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.