Is Catholic worship Mary?

[ThomistColin]

If you wish to not read what I write and bash Catholicism, then at least tell me so I don't have to write anything, newbirth.

Jackson, I have never seen anyone prostate before a statue of Mary. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, nor am I saying there aren't false Christians who worship her. I'm speaking what Catholics believe. We believe those in Heaven continue to pray for those on earth. We believe the most blessed mother of our Lord will pray for us and do as she did at Cana, turn us to Christ and tell us to obey Him.

 

[notuptome]

Why do you ask anyone to pray for you? Why should we even have prayer requests? And Roger, your anti-Catholic stance is well known. We see the angels and saints bringing prayers before the throne in Revelation. That's in the Bible. Maybe if you studied the writings of the early church instead of men like Tim LaHaye you would understand more about the Church Christ founded.

Well let's see...the church Christ founded is an organism not an organization. The church is not founded on Peter but on Christ.

I have never read the writings of Tim LaHaye so your shot in the dark missed.

There is a difference between a cloud of witnesses and saints interceding for souls living on the earth. We are to see what others have done and draw encouragement from how God did not desert them to their foes but used them for His glory.

God always ministers to each soul on a personal one on one basis. We encourage each other in the same fashion as the cloud of witnesses but there is no biblical evidence or encouragement to seek saints in heaven to intercede on our behalf. Utter fable and folly. Through the blood of Christ I have God telling me to come and to come boldly into His presence.

I have no animosity toward catholics, I married one, but the church of Rome is unscriptural and teaches false doctrine condemning millions of souls to the eternal lake of fire. Catholics cannot possess the peace that Christ provides as the church will not tolerate it.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[ThomistColin]

You are Cepha and on this cepha, I will build my Church. It is Christ's church. Peter (latinized), Cephus (Hebrew), Cepha (Aramaic) is the rock. The argument of Petra versus Petros is fallacious. No one would name a male using a female name. Also, in Aramaic and Hebrew the words for little rock and big rock are two completely separate words since both Hebrew and Aramaic use adjectives, which Greek tends to include in a word.

 

[ob77]

[SUP]1[/SUP]wor·ship

noun \ˈwər-shəp also ˈwȯr-\: the act of showing respect and love for a god especially by praying with other people who believe in the same god : the act of worshipping God or a god
: excessive admiration for someone










Full Definition of WORSHIP

1
chiefly British : a person of importance —used as a title for various officials (as magistrates and some mayors)

2
: reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power;also : an act of expressing such reverence

3
: a form of religious practice with its creed and ritual

4
: extravagant respect or admiration for or devotion to an object of esteem <worship of the dollar>

See worship defined for English-language learners »

See worship defined for kids »

Examples of WORSHIP

• worship of gods and goddesses
• Worship services are held daily.
• the media's worship of celebrities

Origin of WORSHIP

Middle English worshipe worthiness, respect, reverence paid to a divine being, from Old English weorthscipe worthiness, respect, from weorth worthy, worth + -scipe -shipFirst Known Use: before 12th century


Related to WORSHIP

Synonymsadulation, deification, hero worship, idolatry, idolization,worshipping (also worshiping)Related Wordsadoration, deference, glorification, reverence, veneration;idealization, romanticization; affection, fancy, favor,fondness, like, liking, love; appreciation, esteem, regard,respect; approvalNear Antonymscondemnation, disapproval, disfavor, dislike, dismissal,disregard, hatred, loathing, scorn
more




Other Forms of Address Terms

appellation, beatitude, brethren, emeritus, esquire, sire, sous


[SUP]2[/SUP]worship

verb: to honor or respect (someone or something) as a god
: to show respect and love for God or for a god especially by praying, having religious services, etc.
: to love or honor (someone or something) very much or too much

Mary, while being above all women of the time, was not to be worshipped or prayed to, for she cannot answer any prayer. She indeed probably holds a special place in heaven, but so do the major prophets. God chooses those who He will to occupy certain roles in this flesh life. One can see this throughout the bible. Christ never said "Talk to my mom and as mom's do, will tell me what is right, and I will do what my mom says". This type of thinking in insane. Stop going along to get along and grow a brain, and get into the word where you will find the truth. The truth is all that counts, period.

 

[posthuman]

You are Cepha and on this cepha, I will build my Church. It is Christ's church. Peter (latinized), Cephus (Hebrew), Cepha (Aramaic) is the rock. The argument of Petra versus Petros is fallacious. No one would name a male using a female name. Also, in Aramaic and Hebrew the words for little rock and big rock are two completely separate words since both Hebrew and Aramaic use adjectives, which Greek tends to include in a word.

if you won't accept Christ's own testimony, there is also that:

For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
(1 Corinthians 3:11)

and if you cannot accept that this is true, then there is also this:

Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation:
(Romans 15:20)

so Paul would not go to teach at a foundling church established by another -- however he wrote to Rome saying:

For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;
(Romans 1:11)

and if that is not enough, there is also this:

But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter
(Galatians 2:7-8)

Rome was a gentile city. while there were Jews in every important town around the Mediterranean, the church in Rome was not "of the circumcision" -- to whom Peter was an apostle.

i realize you've probably already heard this before, and that it's sidetracking the thread - sorry. just thought, you know, for the sake of completeness

 

[Jackson123]

If you wish to not read what I write and bash Catholicism, then at least tell me so I don't have to write anything, newbirth.

Jackson, I have never seen anyone prostate before a statue of Mary. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, nor am I saying there aren't false Christians who worship her. I'm speaking what Catholics believe. We believe those in Heaven continue to pray for those on earth. We believe the most blessed mother of our Lord will pray for us and do as she did at Cana, turn us to Christ and tell us to obey Him.

Brother, is this picture not mean that pope make excessive respect to Mary?

One of The definition of worship is excessive respect.

 

[Jackson123]

If you wish to not read what I write and bash Catholicism, then at least tell me so I don't have to write anything, newbirth.

Jackson, I have never seen anyone prostate before a statue of Mary. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, nor am I saying there aren't false Christians who worship her. I'm speaking what Catholics believe. We believe those in Heaven continue to pray for those on earth. We believe the most blessed mother of our Lord will pray for us and do as she did at Cana, turn us to Christ and tell us to obey Him.

I tray to copy this picture before but not work now I tray one more time.

 

[Jackson123]

This for brother Thomis to prove that even Pope bow in front of Mary statue


POPE BOW BEFORE GIANT IDOL OF QUEEN OF HEAVEN

Learn This Sleep Trick (Somnapure)



December 16, 2012 · by ivarfjeld ·in endtimes, False Christianity. ·
“Mary was conceived without sin “speaks to us of joy, that authentic joy that spreads in a heart freed from sin,”

The fire department in Rome honor the Queen of Heaven on top of a pillar.

These are the words of the Pope, bowing and praying before a giant idol at the Spanish steps in Rome.
Standing before a statue of Mary near the Spanish Steps, in the midst of Rome’s ritzy shopping district, Pope Benedict said Mary is a reminder that silence is essential for hearing God’s word, that salvation comes from God alone and that joy comes from being freed of sin.

The Pope bow, kneel and pray in front of the pagan Queen.

That Mary was conceived without sin “speaks to us of joy, that authentic joy that spreads in a heart freed from sin,” the Pope said, sitting before a column topped with a statue of Mary erected in honor of the Immaculate Conception.
”Sin brings with it sadness,” the Pope said.
“In Mary, in fact, the relationship with God that sin breaks is fully alive and active,” he said. “There is no opposition between God and her being; there is full communion and understanding.”
The Pope prayed that through the intercession of Mary, God would “grant us the grace to reject sin and persevere in the grace of baptism.”
Source: Catholic Register
My comment:
Let us take a deeper look at the latest statements of the Pope.
1. Mary was born without sin.
2. Sin brings with it sadness.
3. Relationships with God breaks sin.
4. There is no opposition between God and her being; there is full communion and understanding.”
Let us take a look at the statements one by one.
1. Mary was born without sin.
The Bible explains that all men have sinned. And since the mother of Jesus was a Jewess that offered a sin offering in the Temple, she was surely a sinner.

 

[ThomistColin]

It is true that we believe she was born without sin. However, bowing and kneeling are not a form of worship, if it were then all of England would be worshippers of the Queen.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

this issue is about more than just mary actually...it really goes back to the 'distinction without a difference' made between worship and 'veneration' at the second council of nicea...basically that council tried to define away the problem with circular logic...'what we do with icons isn't worship because we worship only God...we worship only God because what we do with icons isn't worship'

 

[ThomistColin]

Even the Hebrews had icons. Look at the items in the Holy of Holies, the menorah representing the Holy Spirit, the table of bread, which you were to bow before, represented Christ the Son, and the Ark of the Covenant, which had graven images and two angelic statues, represented the Father. None of these objects were worshipped, but we're venerated.

 

[TaylorTG]

Another anti-Catholic thread?

 

[ThomistColin]

Another anti-Catholic thread? SHEttttttttttttttttt......

Yeah, but even though we may be attacked, I pray that when Satan begins the war against Christ in my country, they will realize that we are brethren in Christ.

 

[maxwel]

Let's see...
We build a statue of Mary...
We kneel down in front of the statue of Mary...
We then start praying to "Mary" while we're kneeling...

But that isn't worship.
Nope.
That's ... ummm... let's see... hey, we better call that something else,
because "worship" sounds really bad.

Yep.
We better call that something else.
That can't possibly BE worship just because it LOOKS EXACTLY LIKE worship.
Nope.
We're going to call that something else.
We're going to call it "veneer".. no that's no good.
We're going to call it "venereal"... no that's no good.
We're going to call it "veneration"... yeah, that sounds excellent!
Veneration!
YEAH!
That sounds SO much more tolerable than "worship."
Yeah.

And if "veneration" ever becomes too intolerable a word...
well then... we'll just change the word to something else!
Exactly!
Excellent plan!
If "veneration" upsets too many people... we'll change the word to...
mmmmm...
I know... Hopscotch!
Yeah, everybody likes hopscotch!
That's what we'll call it next.
Excellent.

If everybody gets upset with "veneration",
we'll just kneel down to a statue of Mary and "hopscotch" her.
Wooo!
We have such great ideas.
I bet this fools EVERYBODY!


: )

 

[Stephen63]

If you wish to not read what I write and bash Catholicism, then at least tell me so I don't have to write anything, newbirth.

Jackson, I have never seen anyone prostate before a statue of Mary. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, nor am I saying there aren't false Christians who worship her. I'm speaking what Catholics believe. We believe those in Heaven continue to pray for those on earth. We believe the most blessed mother of our Lord will pray for us and do as she did at Cana, turn us to Christ and tell us to obey Him.

As I already pointed out, this is a modern definition. Prayer or to pray means to ask or beg reverently. That we do, we ask reverently for the saints to pray for us before the throne. We don't worship them or adore them. We worship and adore Christ.

Babylonian Mother goddess: now Mary, “Queen of Heaven.”

No comment.

 

[Jackson123]

It is true that we believe she was born without sin. However, bowing and kneeling are not a form of worship, if it were then all of England would be worshippers of the Queen.

Brother Let use the definition that is universally use.Excessive respect is worship. I respect my parent but I am not make statue of my parent and bow in front of my parent.So who ever bow in front of the statue, mean excessive respect or worship. 4: extravagant respect or admiration for or devotion to an object of esteem 2. You said Mary is without sin. The wage of sin is death. Before commit sin, Adam and eve design not to die.Mary is die, prove that She is a sinner.We born sin because original sin from our ancestor Adam end eve sin.Mary is also descendant of Adam and Eve.If we sin because we are descendant of Adam and every descendant of Adam is sin then Mary as descendant of Adam must be sin.

 

[Stephen63]

It is true that we believe she was born without sin. However, bowing and kneeling are not a form of worship, if it were then all of England would be worshippers of the Queen.

Romans 3:23 (KJV) [SUP]23 [/SUP]For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

 

[crossnote]

Why do you ask anyone to pray for you? Why should we even have prayer requests? And Roger, your anti-Catholic stance is well known. We see the angels and saints bringing prayers before the throne in Revelation. That's in the Bible. Maybe if you studied the writings of the early church instead of men like Tim LaHaye you would understand more about the Church Christ founded.

Ok, from that angle how does Mary field 1000's of requests at the same time? That's a feat only the God/man is capable of, not a finite creature...or are we starting to deify Mary?

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Even the Hebrews had icons. Look at the items in the Holy of Holies, the menorah representing the Holy Spirit, the table of bread, which you were to bow before, represented Christ the Son, and the Ark of the Covenant, which had graven images and two angelic statues, represented the Father. None of these objects were worshipped, but we're venerated.

i don't recall reading in scripture that anyone bowed to the menorah or the table of showbread...

can you provide biblical quotations to show that anyone 'venerated' the tabernacle furnishings?

on a totally different note...this is the first time i have ever seen a roman catholic assert that the ark of the covenant represented anything other than the blessed virgin mary...

 

[Osiyo]

Again, the ignorant should remain ignorant. Didn't the disciples ask Jesus to teach them to pray? And of all people, who did Jesus start with, and He said to them, "When you pray, say: 'Father, hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come"... where do people get Mary? Am I so stupid? Be blessed and why not".