The sabbath cults - making an idol of the sabbath.

[Jackson123]

why are you avoiding the question? Before or after I even gave scripture to help.

So which one is it?

before sin come to the world

 

[gamlet]

You obviously did not read the rest of my posts in this thread.

I stated in post 12:

"Jesus’ taking authority over the Sabbath both wrests it from the legal framework in which it previously stood and realizes the rest which God’s people were always intended to enjoy. In all three Synoptics, the subsequent miracle is an example of what Jesus’ lordship of the Sabbath will mean in practice: people delivered from the shadow of death and restored into the unblemished image of God.

The Sabbath only features in Paul’s writings negatively. For the Galatians to observe it as if they were still under the Mosaic Law rather than New Covenant moral law would be to descend into gospel-denying slavery (Gal. 4:9–11); for the Colossians to observe it as part of a syncretistic system would be equally fatal (Col. 2:16).

For the Mosaic Law belonged to an earlier era, and since the coming of Christ it is no longer binding (Col. 2:17). Even Sabbath observance ‘for the Lord’ was tolerated only for the sake of those whose faith was weak (Rom. 14:1–12). In short, those in Christ are beyond the jurisdiction of the Old Testament Mosaic Law which has been fulfilled in Jesus.

As God’s perfect human, Jesus lived the Sabbath day for God [already explained to you], releasing his fellow humans from bondage and striving for salvation under the law (e.g. Mosaic Law), bringing them into a new spiritual rebirth in which the moral law of God is written on their heart, bringing them into blessing, and at the last entering Himself into God’s rest.

Ultimately, as Lord of the Sabbath, Jesus made it possible for others to follow him into that rest. This means that the Christian’s task is no longer to keep the Sabbath (Jesus has done that already) as if they were still under the Mosaic Law but rather to believe in Christ and obey Him.

In its final setting, then, the fourth commandment is no longer a commandment for God’s people, but its intent remains. The ‘law of Christ’ anticipates rest by prescribing belief, but now rest has been realized and will have its fullest expression in the gathering of genuine Christians who will reign with the Lamb for ever in the new creation (Rev. 22:3–6)."

Also read post 38 and the respective links here and here.

As I stated previously: "Now [in the new covenant] we strive toward agape love and God's holiness (rooted in his universal morality) rather than the ceremonial tenants of the Mosaic Law... an old covenant God once had with the ancient nation of Israel which Christ fulfilled and that is no longer binding. Confusing the ceremonial law of the old covenant with God's universal morality is fallacious."

This means the part of the ten commandments which contain God's universal morality also exist in the New Covenant which, of course, makes perfect sense as God's universal morality (which as I explained previously is an extension of His own holiness) never changes. The ceremonial portion (e.g. ritual Sabbath religious observance necessary for justification before God in the old covenant) is fulfilled in Christ and does not exist in the New Covenant.

The ancient Sabbath religious observance ritual has nothing to do with salvation today in the new covenant, and nothing to do with the gospel of Jesus Christ. It was never part of the message of the New Testament church. The message is always one of liberty, never one of restrictions on a particular day of the week. God accepts us because of Jesus Christ, not because we observe a ceremonial law of ancient Israel from the old covenant.

Read: 10 False distinctions between the 10 Commandments and the ceremonial law exposed!


Which sabbatarian cult do you belong to? Are you a member of the Seventh Day Adventist religious cult that follows the heretical teachings of the false prophet Ellen G. White?

Oh, I read it. I just don't agree with most of it, specifically, the following points:

1. "Jesus ... wrests it from the legal framework..." "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law and the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them... Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called the least in the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 5:17, 19). Jesus fulfillment of the Law does not take away its universal legal requirements. He fulfilled that part which is prophetic. The Sabbath was both a universal legal requirement and a type (shadow). That's why there were both legal (weekly) and ceremonial (yearly) Sabbaths. One commanded rest, the other foreshadowed spiritual rest (salvation).

2. "The Sabbath only features in Paul's writings negatively." Paul kept the Sabbath. Find the instances in Acts.

3. In both texts you quoted from Galatians and Colossians, the ceremonial Sabbath is referred to, because in both the issue is salvation. The commandments (the universal legal part of it) are not related to salvation.

4. The sacred days referred to in Romans 14 were days of fasting. Different sects of the Jews believed in fasting on different days. There was no Sabbath or Sunday issue because all the Jews kept the Sabbath. Sunday observance did not enter the Christian Church until the 4th Century AD.

5. "As God’s perfect human, Jesus lived the Sabbath day for God [already explained to you], releasing his fellow humans from bondage and striving for salvation under the law (e.g. Mosaic Law), bringing them into a new spiritual rebirth in which the moral law of God is written on their heart, bringing them into blessing, and at the last entering Himself into God’s rest." I agree with this, but this does not mean that He took away the command to keep non-ceremonial legal part of the Law.

6. "...the Christian’s task is no longer to keep the Sabbath (Jesus has done that already)" So do you murder now? Do you commit adultery now, because Jesus already kept that Law for you? It seems to me that you first rejected the obedience to the Sabbath command first and are now rationalizing this decision through twisted reasoning.

7. "...the fourth commandment is no longer a commandment for God’s people, but its intent remains." The intent of the fourth commandment is two-fold: to foreshadow the heavenly rest and to allow God's people to experience the blessings of a weekly Sabbath rest. There is no bondage or slavery to this weekly Sabbath keeping because it is not kept with the intent of securing salvation as the Jews did.

8. "Confusing the ceremonial law of the old covenant with God's universal morality is fallacious." To this part I agree. Unfortunately you're the one guilty of the confusion. when you say both the ceremonial law and 'God's universal morality' have been taken away. There is a ceremonial Sabbath and legal moral universal Sabbath. Don't confuse the two.

By the way, I belong to the Sabbatarian cult which has its roots in Jesus' and Paul's own Sabbatarian cult. And be careful of making charges of heresy and false prophesy. The Pharisees made these same allegations regarding Jesus and the disciples.

 

[JesusLives]

Originally Posted by AgeofKnowledge Your question is answered in the links I provided but I have a question for you. Why are members of the cult of Seventh Day Adventism very reluctant to admit their identity with this heretical organization?

You tell me your denomination and I will tell you mine - why try and bully people about their denomination? I thought we were discussing different ideas and beliefs. We don't always have to agree sometimes people agree to disagree.

Silence.....crickets.....

 

[nl]

I look forward, D.V., to the perpetual sabbath in eternity when every day all day can be given fully to God (no night there, of course).

For now, many of us need to settle for only one Lord's Day per week. I work hard during the week. I am glad to take a break on Sunday and trust Almighty God to provide via work (and a little asset management) on the other days.

 

[gotime]

That doesn't make any sense.

You are working at the law because the Lord has given you rest?

The Holy Spirit and the Fruit of that Spirit is not enough for Righteousnesss? You must add your works of the law to it?

Yes rest from sin, sin is breaking the law. If you are still breaking it then you are not resting.

Its got nothing to do with adding works. The fruit of the spirit is obedience to God. you can't have the fruit of the Spirit and break the commandments at the same time. they are contrary to each other. Thus the law is not against the fruit of the Spirit.

The Law does not condemn the fruits of the Spirit because it is in line with the law.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

but the works of the flesh are these,

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.




Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Disobedience to God is works not rest.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

People work for wages.

Rom_6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

IF you break the commandments of God then you have not the fruit of the spirit and you are not resting.

 

[gotime]

before sin come to the world

Thankyou,

So let me ask you, if it was before sin then its a good thing right? So did Jesus come to do away with good things or sin and the devil?

Do you get my point? It makes no sense that God came to undo what He did before sin.

 

[Jackson123]

Thankyou,

So let me ask you, if it was before sin then its a good thing right? So did Jesus come to do away with good things or sin and the devil?

Do you get my point? It makes no sense that God came to undo what He did before sin.

God rest in sabath but God doesn't command to rest on sabath thousand years till the sin come as mere shadow of what is to come and it is Jesus.

Colosians 2
16Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day-- 17things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ. 18Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind,…

 

[gotime]

God rest in sabath but God doesn't command to rest on sabath thousand years till the sin come as mere shadow of what is to come and it is Jesus.

Colosians 2
16Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day-- 17things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.18Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind,…

Read Colosians in context and you will see its not saying what you are implying.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

idolatry is exactly what we are dealing with here...there was a perfect example of this in another thread recently...someone posted this...

The Sabbath is the centor of the whole Bible
It is the center of the law of God
it is the center of revelation
it is what armageddon is all about
it is the sign and seal of God
it is the center of christian experience
i t is the center of Worship

my response was this...

actually...

-christ- is the center of the whole bible...
-christ- is the center of the law of God...
-christ- is the center of revelation...
-christ's return- is what armageddon is all about...
the -holy spirit- is the sign and seal of God...
-christ- is the center of christian experience...
the -father and son and holy spirit- are the center of worship...

you have taken God and replaced him with sabbath keeping in a blatant act of -idolatry-

it is really time we started calling this by what it really is...namely -sabbath idolatry-!

 

[Jackson123]

Read Colosians in context and you will see its not saying what you are implying.

I did and I am not found anything said otherwise Sabbath is one of things which are a mere shadow of what is to come.

The real sabbath is Jesus.

 

[gotime]

I did and I am not found anything said otherwise Sabbath is one of things which are a mere shadow of what is to come.

The real sabbath is Jesus.

You do know that there were feast Sabbaths which are separate from the Weekly Sabbath. but read the context:

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

notice Paul is arguing against philosophy and traditions of men after the world.

Col 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

Here he calls it ordinances. a ceremonial law.

are the 10 commandments spoken and written by God traditions of man? are they rudiments of the world? are they ceremonial?

no, no , an no.

by the way Paul calls them a shadow of things to come.

The Sabbath commandment part of the 10 commandments or the moral law pointed back to creation not of things to come only.

 

[Jackson123]

You do know that there were feast Sabbaths which are separate from the Weekly Sabbath. but read the context:

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

notice Paul is arguing against philosophy and traditions of men after the world.

Col 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

Here he calls it ordinances. a ceremonial law.

are the 10 commandments spoken and written by God traditions of man? are they rudiments of the world? are they ceremonial?

no, no , an no.

by the way Paul calls them a shadow of things to come.

The Sabbath commandment part of the 10 commandments or the moral law pointed back to creation not of things to come only.

If I understand correctly this is the summery of what you try to say:

1. Feast Sabbath is origin from Human philosophy.
2. That verse is not talking about weakly sabbath but feast sabbath.


You believe Paul mean in that verse about Sabbath as origin from Human not Sabbath that origin from the Lord.

If it is Sabbath origin from Human why Paul Said it shadowing Jesus?

Did Philosopher Know about Jesus

Di Philosopher deliberately, willingly Preaching the Gospel of Jesus?

 

[pastac]

see new Sabbath post???

 

[john832]

Where did the Lord Jesus say to remember the sabbath day to keep it holy? I can't find it in the KJV...

There's your problem...

Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

The One who became Jesus Christ is the One who said "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.'"

He is also the one who said...

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

And...

Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

 

[john832]

You still don't understand God's rest
Hebrews 4:9-11

King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]9 [/SUP]There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Oh, I think he does.

 

[john832]

God didn't bless a cycle of one out of every seven days. He blessed the day He Rested from His Work. The seventh day of creation. The number that represents fulfillment.

The work of God was fulfilled from the foundation of the world. That's how awesome and omnipotent God is. He had already saved us from His Wrath before Adam and Eve rebelled against Him. Kind of hard to wrap your mind around that one isn't it?

His Rest is what is blessed. His Work is what is blessed.

Our emulation by the flesh of what His Work in the Spirit is, is not what pleases Him. Our Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and the Work that He Does in Us by the Holy Spirit is what is pleasing to God.

Don't you read Matthew 5? Can't you see how your work can not fulfill what is required by the Law, how you can't be perfect as your Father in Heaven is Perfect by your work?

If you can see that then you know that only God can perfect you. If you know that only God can perfect you then you can start to see how coming to Christ, who gives us His Rest, is what the Shadow was pointing to all along.

The Shadow of what? The Shadow of the flesh attempting to emulate and perform the work of the Holy Spirit.

The Sabbath, Rest, is a major sign, or fruit, of the people of God. In this the 7th day Adventists are correct. They just misunderstand what it really is, by the Spirit. And place theirselves back under the law, falling from grace...

Hebrews 4...

Its so hard to show people, who are just trying to please God, that their work doesn't do it. We, who are in the flesh, mostly suck, most of the time. But we have this hope that is in Christ. That this work that He started in us He will be faithful to complete.

It's like bursting their little bubble. Pop. We are special people of God because we don't work on saturdays. Pop. Nope. We are special people of God because we don't rely on our own work for our salvation and our subsequent perfection. We rely on Christ and Christ Alone. That's what makes us special. Or peculiar if you like that word better... Matt 11:28-30, John 15:4-5

I asked a question. You come back with a lot of assumptions on why I do what I do.

Assumptions full of errors at that.

 

[john832]

That doesn't make any sense.

You are working at the law because the Lord has given you rest?

The Holy Spirit and the Fruit of that Spirit is not enough for Righteousnesss? You must add your works of the law to it?

Let me ask you something Gramps, are you careful not to do anything that might kill someone? If you are, you are working at the Law by keeping the sixth Commandment. If you aren't, please stay miles from me.

 

[john832]

idolatry is exactly what we are dealing with here...there was a perfect example of this in another thread recently...someone posted this...



my response was this...



it is really time we started calling this by what it really is...namely -sabbath idolatry-!

You state Christ is the center of the whole Bible, I am not trying to be argumentative here, but if you will do a conccordant search for the word father in the gospels, you will find the Father is the central theme. Christ did what the Father told Him to do, said what the Father told Him to say and came to reveal the Father.

It is not about Christ, it is about the Father.

Peace.

 

[john832]

I did and I am not found anything said otherwise Sabbath is one of things which are a mere shadow of what is to come.

Then you are saying Christ had not come yet when Col 2:16-17 was written?

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Notice this is not past tense or past perfect tense or present tense, but rather, it is FUTURE tense. The Sabbath is the shadow of the Millenium. The seventh one thousand year period in which Christ will reign as King of Kings and Lord of Lords and bring rest to the earth, fulfilling this prophecy...

Isa 14:4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
Isa 14:5 The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.
Isa 14:6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.
Isa 14:7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.

The King of Babylon here is Satan the Devil as we see by simply reading on...

Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Notice verse 15? Now let's read about that...

Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

When Satan is incarcerated fro 1000 years, the earth will break out in peace and rest and Christ will bring the rest that is spoken of in Heb 9 and pictured by the entrance in to the Promised Land. Israel could not enter that land...

Heb 3:17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
Heb 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
Heb 3:19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Why?

Deu 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

Deu 30:5 And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.
Deu 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

Deut 30 is a prophecy that has yet to occur. God WILL convert Israel but it hasn't happened yet...

Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.

Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

The real sabbath is Jesus.

No, Jesus Christ is far more than the Sabbath, He is the Creator of and Lord and Master of the Sabbath.

If Christ is the Sabbath, I would see some scriptural proof.

 

[john832]

idolatry is exactly what we are dealing with here...there was a perfect example of this in another thread recently...someone posted this...



my response was this...



it is really time we started calling this by what it really is...namely -sabbath idolatry-!

Ah, obedience is idolatry? OK, that explains a lot.