Failure in the Education of the High Shool Class of 2014
- Thread starter Billyd
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I will weigh in as a teacher on this subject. It is frustrating to see teachers who stay in the profession who honestly seem to not like the children they are teaching. And, to the people who are going to say they do this because of the summers off, that is far from the truth. I am already scheduled to attend 5 different conferences this summer and will be spending a lot of the rest of my summer completely rewriting my lesson plans to align with the Common Core State Standards along with two programs that are being implemented in my school. I am also being moved to a different classroom in the building so I will be packing and moving and unpacking in between everything else--so much for having the summer off.
As far as the curriculum goes, I am a math teacher (Algebra 1) so I cannot weigh in on the literature and science comments that have been made. I can say that, in my opinion, the state mandated tests are not made for all students. I teach in a school with high poverty rate. I remember one problem that involved a person remodeling a room in their house. The dimensions of the room were given and one of the questions was "how many feet of baseboard will be needed to complete the remodel" or something like that. Many of my students did not know what a baseboard was so they had no idea that the question was asking for the perimeter of the room. That is just one small example of how the type of question asked does not do a good job of assessing how well all student have mastered certain content.
I am not saying that the educational system in our country is completely flawed, far from that. There are so many outside factors that need improvement and/or influence students negatively--lack of parental involvement, high poverty, student home life, teenage pregnancy, drugs, etc.
Just my two cents
God Bless
As far as the curriculum goes, I am a math teacher (Algebra 1) so I cannot weigh in on the literature and science comments that have been made. I can say that, in my opinion, the state mandated tests are not made for all students. I teach in a school with high poverty rate. I remember one problem that involved a person remodeling a room in their house. The dimensions of the room were given and one of the questions was "how many feet of baseboard will be needed to complete the remodel" or something like that. Many of my students did not know what a baseboard was so they had no idea that the question was asking for the perimeter of the room. That is just one small example of how the type of question asked does not do a good job of assessing how well all student have mastered certain content.
I am not saying that the educational system in our country is completely flawed, far from that. There are so many outside factors that need improvement and/or influence students negatively--lack of parental involvement, high poverty, student home life, teenage pregnancy, drugs, etc.
Just my two cents
God Bless
First off, you teach Algebra? God bless you! I hated Algebra lol.
Also, I do agree with about everything you say. The testing kids go through now is insane. In Tennessee we have the TCAP(Tennessee Comprehensive Assessment Program). These kids test for 4 days, and now it counts as part of their grade(15% as a matter of fact). Teachers freak out over this test because if the students scores aren't high enough they risk losing their job. Now days kids don't fail a grade. They are encouraged to be held back, but no one fails.
As far as parental involvement in concerned, well.... I wasn't taught common core when I was in school, and some of the school work my 6th grader comes home with is so confusing to me I can't make anything out. It is really difficult to help my child when even I can't figure it out. My boyfriend is a math whiz(literally, he does statistics for fun) and he is confused by some of the work.
There is also one more factor that has been removed from most schools, and I strongly feel that it needs to be brought back, and that is the paddle.
Also, I do agree with about everything you say. The testing kids go through now is insane. In Tennessee we have the TCAP(Tennessee Comprehensive Assessment Program). These kids test for 4 days, and now it counts as part of their grade(15% as a matter of fact). Teachers freak out over this test because if the students scores aren't high enough they risk losing their job. Now days kids don't fail a grade. They are encouraged to be held back, but no one fails.
As far as parental involvement in concerned, well.... I wasn't taught common core when I was in school, and some of the school work my 6th grader comes home with is so confusing to me I can't make anything out. It is really difficult to help my child when even I can't figure it out. My boyfriend is a math whiz(literally, he does statistics for fun) and he is confused by some of the work.
There is also one more factor that has been removed from most schools, and I strongly feel that it needs to be brought back, and that is the paddle.
I couldn't remember the name of the program. From what I have witnessed, common core is completely counter productive.
Common core is supposed to teach children how numbers interact so that they understand why formulas work. The problem with standard math is that often students get caught up remembering formulas without understanding why they work. This is why you often see students get stumped when a formula is slightly changed, when they should know better.
The problem with common core is that it's way too complicated. It's supposed to teach students how numbers interact, and I can see how it's "supposed" to do this. But it's so convoluted and the point is never clear, so it just doesn't work. Instead of students learning how numbers interact, they're trying to remember an overly complex formula. They aren't trying to figure out why the formula exists or how it pertains to basic math principles, they just want to get through their homework.
The biggest problem with common core math is that it makes math miserable. Students who actually enjoy math will be turned off by the subject because it goes from being fun to overly complex and confusing. It saps away their curiosity and their urge to learn. This is the biggest problem with common core.
I'm not a math teacher, but I would wager that there are far superior ways to teach math than through common core. If you want to teach students why formulas work, you need to break the formulas up and explain each step. You should show alternate formulas. And you should focus on intriguing students with what can be done using math. Growing up, my peers would always ask, "What's the point of this? When would we use something like this?" Teachers never have an answer, and that's a huge shame - because there are so many applications for math! a + 6 = 27, solve for a? When a teacher can't tell you how this will be used in the real world, it really discourages you from learning as a child.
I disagree completely. I believe trouble makers should be removed from the classroom, but child abuse is never the answer. (Yes, it's child abuse, especially if you use a hard object)
Common core is supposed to teach children how numbers interact so that they understand why formulas work. The problem with standard math is that often students get caught up remembering formulas without understanding why they work. This is why you often see students get stumped when a formula is slightly changed, when they should know better.
The problem with common core is that it's way too complicated. It's supposed to teach students how numbers interact, and I can see how it's "supposed" to do this. But it's so convoluted and the point is never clear, so it just doesn't work. Instead of students learning how numbers interact, they're trying to remember an overly complex formula. They aren't trying to figure out why the formula exists or how it pertains to basic math principles, they just want to get through their homework.
The biggest problem with common core math is that it makes math miserable. Students who actually enjoy math will be turned off by the subject because it goes from being fun to overly complex and confusing. It saps away their curiosity and their urge to learn. This is the biggest problem with common core.
I'm not a math teacher, but I would wager that there are far superior ways to teach math than through common core. If you want to teach students why formulas work, you need to break the formulas up and explain each step. You should show alternate formulas. And you should focus on intriguing students with what can be done using math. Growing up, my peers would always ask, "What's the point of this? When would we use something like this?" Teachers never have an answer, and that's a huge shame - because there are so many applications for math! a + 6 = 27, solve for a? When a teacher can't tell you how this will be used in the real world, it really discourages you from learning as a child.
I disagree completely. I believe trouble makers should be removed from the classroom, but child abuse is never the answer. (Yes, it's child abuse, especially if you use a hard object)
Last edited:
Yes, I am one of those crazy people who actually enjoy teaching Algebra. I do understand what you are saying about common core being so difficult. The really terrible thing is that most of the teachers do not even know what is going on with common core. There has been little to no training for it, we were given the standards we are expected to teach and my school had a day of training for using the textbook (which is awful, in my opinion).
The worst part is that under common core, the teacher is more of a facilitator than a teacher. We are supposed to 'guide' our students but, they are supposed to do most of the work on their own through investigations and such. The students I have this year don't know how to investigate and draw their own conclusions from the data they have collected. They have always been taught a certain concept first and then were expected to apply it. This 'should' get better as the students proceed through school but, it is very unfair to them right now. They are expected to do things they have never been taught how to do and then I am supposed to grade them on the work they do? I don't think so.
I am in Arkansas and the state mandated tests are not figured as a part of the student's final grade. We just took the test this week and the school year ends on the 30th. There is not enough time to get them all graded, I usually get the results about mid-July. The students that do poorly on the test do have to take remediation classes next year to help them with the content they were weak in. But, the down side of that is it makes them have two math classes and that is hard for people who are not strong in math. It is a struggle no matter how we look at it.
I just keep trying every thing I can to teach my kiddos, I use a lot of games and activities in my classes so the kids are having fun while learning without really realizing they are actually learning something. To me, it is all about the students. If they do poorly, I take it personally. I feel like I did not do well enough for them and we go back and re-learn whatever they are struggling with. Without them, I would not have a job that I enjoy so I am going to do everything I can to help them do their best. It can be disheartening sometimes but, I refuse to give up.
At my school, we do still have the paddle with parental permission. You would be surprised at the number of students whose parents allow them to be paddled. Trust me, though, the kids that do get paddled don't feel any pain. I have had to stand in as a witness for female students and the dean of students is very light handed with the paddle.
I have been at this for 11 years now and it does keep getting harder and harder for the students and the teachers. There have been days when I just want to throw in the towel but, my students need me. I have seniority over most of the other teachers and could teach all of the advanced classes. That would be easier because there are fewer students and they are more serious students. But, I love my 9th graders (crazy hormones and all) and I love the feeling I get when I see the light bulb come on for students. Most people think I am nuts but, I am in the place where I can do the best for the students.
The worst part is that under common core, the teacher is more of a facilitator than a teacher. We are supposed to 'guide' our students but, they are supposed to do most of the work on their own through investigations and such. The students I have this year don't know how to investigate and draw their own conclusions from the data they have collected. They have always been taught a certain concept first and then were expected to apply it. This 'should' get better as the students proceed through school but, it is very unfair to them right now. They are expected to do things they have never been taught how to do and then I am supposed to grade them on the work they do? I don't think so.
I am in Arkansas and the state mandated tests are not figured as a part of the student's final grade. We just took the test this week and the school year ends on the 30th. There is not enough time to get them all graded, I usually get the results about mid-July. The students that do poorly on the test do have to take remediation classes next year to help them with the content they were weak in. But, the down side of that is it makes them have two math classes and that is hard for people who are not strong in math. It is a struggle no matter how we look at it.
I just keep trying every thing I can to teach my kiddos, I use a lot of games and activities in my classes so the kids are having fun while learning without really realizing they are actually learning something. To me, it is all about the students. If they do poorly, I take it personally. I feel like I did not do well enough for them and we go back and re-learn whatever they are struggling with. Without them, I would not have a job that I enjoy so I am going to do everything I can to help them do their best. It can be disheartening sometimes but, I refuse to give up.
At my school, we do still have the paddle with parental permission. You would be surprised at the number of students whose parents allow them to be paddled. Trust me, though, the kids that do get paddled don't feel any pain. I have had to stand in as a witness for female students and the dean of students is very light handed with the paddle.
I have been at this for 11 years now and it does keep getting harder and harder for the students and the teachers. There have been days when I just want to throw in the towel but, my students need me. I have seniority over most of the other teachers and could teach all of the advanced classes. That would be easier because there are fewer students and they are more serious students. But, I love my 9th graders (crazy hormones and all) and I love the feeling I get when I see the light bulb come on for students. Most people think I am nuts but, I am in the place where I can do the best for the students.
I agree with this comment 100%. Thank you for reminding me about this issue. I honestly don't have many problems concerning discipline. I have a reputation for being tough but fair. My students might try to see how far they can push me but, they figure out very quickly that I won't tolerate bad behavior at all
There is a huge difference in paddling/spanking and child abuse. If a student is paddled it is due to them misbehaving, and normally the student knows the consequences before they act up anyway. My son is allowed to be paddled if he acts up. He knows this. IF a child is beaten to where there are marks that last for a long period of time then yes, that would be abusive. A few smacks on the butt is NOT abuse no matter what the new liberal hippie groups say. What is abusive is medicating a child so they will behave. That fixes nothing. It treats nothing but masks the underlying issue as to why they act how they do. Making children drug zombies because "spanking is abusive" is a huge crock.
Removing a child from the classroom has been shown to not be too productive as well.
Removing a child from the classroom has been shown to not be too productive as well.
I can relate to this so much! I'm an elementary school teacher and I've also received little to no training in Common Core. We didn't even get any new textbooks! We were basically told that since our reading series isn't aligned with Common Core then we were not supposed to use it. And yet we were given nothing to replace it. We were also told that our current math series does a better job of aligning with Common Core, which actually isn't the case in the grade that I teach. We are allowed to use our math series but we've been told to skim lightly over anything that conflicts with Common Core and yet we are still supposed to use the unit tests that heavily test the kids on those very skills that we're just supposed to skim over.
I don't understand why this has been so shoddily implemented. Usually when there's a new educational fad like this (because that's basically what it is) we are given a lot of training and materials. And yet for something that's supposedly so important and groundbreaking we've been given a single day of training and no new materials (while telling us we can't use most of the old materials!). And next year the students at our school will be taking tests based upon the new standards and teacher evaluations will be based upon these tests.
Toska, I love what you wrote about your joy in teaching. I'm not sure I could handle 9th graders, you are a brave one, lol. I teach little ones. The kids are definitely what makes it all worth while and teaching itself can be a lot of fun, even with all of the craziness the system throws at both the teachers and the students.
I don't understand why this has been so shoddily implemented. Usually when there's a new educational fad like this (because that's basically what it is) we are given a lot of training and materials. And yet for something that's supposedly so important and groundbreaking we've been given a single day of training and no new materials (while telling us we can't use most of the old materials!). And next year the students at our school will be taking tests based upon the new standards and teacher evaluations will be based upon these tests.
Toska, I love what you wrote about your joy in teaching. I'm not sure I could handle 9th graders, you are a brave one, lol. I teach little ones. The kids are definitely what makes it all worth while and teaching itself can be a lot of fun, even with all of the craziness the system throws at both the teachers and the students.
This right here be at the heart of the problem. At least in terms of public education, I can onyl say so much on private and homeschoolign as I have seen with my friends.
On one hand public schooling beneficial because it is good community building despite any of the curricula. On the other hand without parent participation at home or in the education setting you pretty much have a machine teaching your kids to become another brick in the wall (see Pink Floyd lol.)
I'd say even though a large bit of the curriculum is questionable, a simple solution to many problems would be if one could just find a way to better integrate parents to have more of a say on curiculum into the education process of their children (at least on touchier topics, obviously Math is Math, not much needed to change there besides mayeb testing standards and teaching practices) Wouldn't fix everything, but I think it be the best way to settle the classic battle of Parents vs The State and a lot of the problems in the American public education system would vanish over night.
On one hand public schooling beneficial because it is good community building despite any of the curricula. On the other hand without parent participation at home or in the education setting you pretty much have a machine teaching your kids to become another brick in the wall (see Pink Floyd lol.)
I'd say even though a large bit of the curriculum is questionable, a simple solution to many problems would be if one could just find a way to better integrate parents to have more of a say on curiculum into the education process of their children (at least on touchier topics, obviously Math is Math, not much needed to change there besides mayeb testing standards and teaching practices) Wouldn't fix everything, but I think it be the best way to settle the classic battle of Parents vs The State and a lot of the problems in the American public education system would vanish over night.
Also though teaching Math and Science and Scientific Theory is okay, I feel like in the past decade the push to those two fields while good in soem respects at the same time is a big reason why we have such a robotic society. English and especially Social Studies I think need to stop getting the cold shoulder and are just as important to teach.
After all what good is it to raise up a generation of masterminds that can put satellites into orbit, but does not even grasp the basic concepts of a moral society and at minimum basic ethics? The State don't need to mandate ethics on kids, but at the least I feel morei mportance should be put in at least teaching them common basic civic principles. And this is not totally lost either, so no need to give up hope, simply need to revitalize the system. Many of the best teachers I had that were extremely intelligent and also all church-going Christians were Government, Law, Economics, and History teachers
After all what good is it to raise up a generation of masterminds that can put satellites into orbit, but does not even grasp the basic concepts of a moral society and at minimum basic ethics? The State don't need to mandate ethics on kids, but at the least I feel morei mportance should be put in at least teaching them common basic civic principles. And this is not totally lost either, so no need to give up hope, simply need to revitalize the system. Many of the best teachers I had that were extremely intelligent and also all church-going Christians were Government, Law, Economics, and History teachers
Last edited:
I appreciate the sentiment, although I'm afraid I'll have to point out that I'm irreligious.
Most of your comments are just absurdly contrarian and trollish.
I guess you read half a book by Dawkins and have no place else to argue?
So it's not child abuse if:
1. The child is harmed for misbehaving.
2. The child understands he will be punished for misbehaving.
Punching someone in the stomach will usually cause a temporary loss of breath as well as some pain. However, after a while, that pain will go away and you will breath easy again. Worse than a spanking? Sure, but why would punching a child be any different than spanking them?
What about old people? Let's suppose you put grandma in a home and she gets incredibly grouchy. She doesn't want to take her meds and she throws her food at those who are trying to take care of her. She knows it's wrong, would it be appropriate if she were spanked? What would be the difference between spanking an elderly person and a child? Are children somehow "lesser" than adults or seniors?
I have never heard anyone suggest we should use drugs to make our children behave as a replacement for spanking.
Since I'm not a parent, it's difficult for me to make a case against spanking. Then again, most parents are blind to the negative effects spanking has on their children or their children don't develop problems that are often caused by spanking until they're older. So that leaves us with researchers, who have proven time and time again that there are more efficient ways to discipline children without spanking them. And let me say this now, choosing not to spank a child is not the same as letting them do whatever they want.
When you spank a child, you teach them that their action is wrong. You don't teach them why it's wrong, only that doing what's considered wrong will result in punishment. More efficient methods of discipline involve talking to the child and giving the child an active role of discovering why they are acting out and how to solve that problem. And far too often I hear people tell me, "After I spank them, I explain to them why it's wrong". But if the explanation requires an accompanied spanking, are you sure you're explanation comes off as anything more than an afterthought?
1. The child is harmed for misbehaving.
2. The child understands he will be punished for misbehaving.
Punching someone in the stomach will usually cause a temporary loss of breath as well as some pain. However, after a while, that pain will go away and you will breath easy again. Worse than a spanking? Sure, but why would punching a child be any different than spanking them?
What about old people? Let's suppose you put grandma in a home and she gets incredibly grouchy. She doesn't want to take her meds and she throws her food at those who are trying to take care of her. She knows it's wrong, would it be appropriate if she were spanked? What would be the difference between spanking an elderly person and a child? Are children somehow "lesser" than adults or seniors?
I have never heard anyone suggest we should use drugs to make our children behave as a replacement for spanking.
Since I'm not a parent, it's difficult for me to make a case against spanking. Then again, most parents are blind to the negative effects spanking has on their children or their children don't develop problems that are often caused by spanking until they're older. So that leaves us with researchers, who have proven time and time again that there are more efficient ways to discipline children without spanking them. And let me say this now, choosing not to spank a child is not the same as letting them do whatever they want.
When you spank a child, you teach them that their action is wrong. You don't teach them why it's wrong, only that doing what's considered wrong will result in punishment. More efficient methods of discipline involve talking to the child and giving the child an active role of discovering why they are acting out and how to solve that problem. And far too often I hear people tell me, "After I spank them, I explain to them why it's wrong". But if the explanation requires an accompanied spanking, are you sure you're explanation comes off as anything more than an afterthought?
In terms of the child discipline and schooling, this is a tricky subject no doubt. I'd say if I had a kid and a teacher smacked them I'd probably lose my patience pretty quick. Solution seems simply to me school should simply take up any punishment that would be beyond a detention or segregation with the parents.
For instance if a kid has maybe a problem with a particular teacher, school may take it upon themselves to segregate them from the others (for us we have this when I was in school, called NOVAnet basically doing worksheets on the computer with a teacher supervising.)
If kid is for say just refusing to stand for the pledge or saying a prayer at lunch due to family morality, then it be fair to consult with the family just to make sure the kid ain't being silly for the sake of it, and the school should relent to the parent's decision.
For instance if a kid has maybe a problem with a particular teacher, school may take it upon themselves to segregate them from the others (for us we have this when I was in school, called NOVAnet basically doing worksheets on the computer with a teacher supervising.)
If kid is for say just refusing to stand for the pledge or saying a prayer at lunch due to family morality, then it be fair to consult with the family just to make sure the kid ain't being silly for the sake of it, and the school should relent to the parent's decision.
This doesn't always work. A lot of the time kids know exactly why their actions are wrong, and yet they still do them anyway. The knowledge that something is wrong doesn't necessarily stop them from committing that wrong. They are a lot like adults that way. When you become a parent (or ever decide to work with children) you'll discover that you can talk until you're blue in the face to your five-year-old about why they shouldn't hit their sibling but unless you follow it up with some serious consequence then they are simply not going to take you seriously.
We are in the same boat as you. My students will take the test based on ccss next year and it scares me to death. I don't see how they will be able to be successful when I don't know enough to have a full understanding of the new standards.
We are the opposite, though, because I have the utmost respect for you teaching the little ones. I don't think I could handle younger kids. You are right about the kids definitely being worth any other junk that is thrown at us. I only try to focus on them and what I can do the be the best teacher for them that I can.
We are the opposite, though, because I have the utmost respect for you teaching the little ones. I don't think I could handle younger kids. You are right about the kids definitely being worth any other junk that is thrown at us. I only try to focus on them and what I can do the be the best teacher for them that I can.