What?! You mean you actually have a life outside of this place?
How dare you!!
The Sabbath.
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What?! You mean you actually have a life outside of this place?
How dare you!!
It is very sad. That you still think you can keep His Commandments by your own will and strength. That you think your work at the law is good enough.
That you think you can mix your work of the law with His Grace.
So which is it? Can you, by your own strength and will, keep His Commandments and keep your own life?
Or do you have to come to the Lord Jesus Christ in humility and meekness asking for his mercy and gift of life?
P
pastac
Guest
If we look at these questions for a moment, there's another very important question that must first be considered...
"Are you still alive....or are you no longer alive (with Christ living in you instead)?" The answer is either one or the other; not both. It's impossible for the answer to be "both". Either Galatians 2:20 is true for your life, or it's not true. This is the grace that brings salvation through faith; the faith in believing that even though you're visibly walking and talking and still breathing, YOU ARE IN FACT DEAD and it's the Messiah who instead is walking and talking and breathing **in your body**.
This is grace alone that brings salvation through faith (something we aren't worthy of and that no action could give us):
- Faith that Christ is in you now (i.e. the gift of eternal life = the gift of him being in you because he IS the life)......OTHERWISE you're the one still alive in you.
- Faith that the 2nd life (i.e. 2nd Adam = Christ = eternal life) animates your body.......OTHERWISE your 1st life (i.e. "you") still animates your body.
- Faith that you were born anew (i.e. that you died and that Christ now lives).........OTHERWISE you haven't been born anew, and are just pretending to have been.
...It is from THIS faith, that your works follow; works of keeping his commandments because you're not alive anymore to keep them. He is alive to keep them, in you, as only he can.
I believe Galatians 2:20 is true for me (particularly), so please allow me to rewrite your post in light of Galatians 2:20 just to prove the point I'm trying to make...
......
...This is why I said the most important question is, "Are you still alive....or are you no longer alive (with Christ living in you instead)?" Because it is the *only way* obedience to God's law is possible. The most important question is, "is Galatians 2:20 true for you?" because to say "yes Christ is in me" and yet after that also say "to keep his commandments is impossible" actually denies the first statement because this is where saying "Christ is in me" *inevitably* leads the believer; to keeping his commandments, since it is indeed *HIS* Holy Spirit that animates the true believer's body (and not the believer's own spirit any longer) [NOTE THE WORD IS INEVITABLY, NOT INSTANTLY]. It's *HIS* will and strength that is sufficient to keep the law perfectly (and never the believers) will and strength.
It is written that "For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son" and that we "are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.", but into what image exactly?
A: Into the image of the one who was obedient to God's commandments ("this is my beloved son with whom I am well pleased"), because Christ had true love for the father. It's why Christ's image is so important. That's what make him so unique to be the "Captain" we're to follow.
God sowed Christ into the earth as a seed ("if a kernal of wheat fall the the earth and dies it produces much fruit"), so God is expecting to reap the same crop of the seed he sowed...not a crop that sort of resembles the seed he sowed (parable of the wheat & tares).
This is why Chubbena said "here we go again with the equation of "keeping His commandments" = "using one's own strength"..because to equate keeping his commandments with using one's *own strength* is untrue and deny's Christ's very own life/strength (i.e. grace) that was given in the believer.
This is "having a form of godliness" (i.e. 'I am a follower of Christ who possesses his Holy Spirit and his Grace'), but "denying the power thereof" (i.e. 'it is impossible for me - as a follower of Christ - to be obedient to God's commandments even with his same Holy Spirit in me and even if I have his grace').
I tell you brother the opposite of what you believe is true. You believe to try to keep God's commandments is to deny God's Grace, while the truth is "to say it's impossible to keep God's commandments is to deny that very grace" because Grace is not a license to break God's commandments but instead is the power of God to overcome sinning by keeping them.
Revelation 21:7 says we are tasked to become "overcomers", but if you believe there is no work for us to do, then there is nothing for us to overcome.
Your God is entirely too small!! God takes in your entire life!!
We are to use the HS to attempt to keep the commandments, the law is our guide to joy, peace, justice, goodness in this life. The law explains what our God is like, it is holy.
That does not cancel out the blessings of grace, we cannot keep the law perfectly so we rely on grace.
It isn't a matter of which to follow, with our holy God we have it ALL. By following the law in the way God shows us, we have a wonderful life here. That is not legalistically, but in spirit and truth. By following Christ for eternal life we have eternal life. We need not limit anything, God gives us all.
C
chubbena
Guest
It's sad when one always equates keeping His commandments with own will and strength...oh wait a minute. Didn't I just say that in my last post?
Does one have to break His commandments to show humility and meekness...oh wait a minute. Didn't I just say that in my last post?
C
chubbena
Guest
We might not, rather than we cannot, keep the law perfectly so we rely on grace otherwise "I can do all this through him who gives me strength" is just some punch line...
Who says any of us think we can keep the commandments in our own strength?
I wake up in the morning and I ask God to come and enter my life and submit myself to Him asking for the Holy Spirit to dwell within me and it is through God's power the commandments can be kept.
Those commandments show me what God expects His follower to adhere to. I would think that you would have to admit that each one of us as we wake up in the morning could decide to go out and steal something if we wanted to bad enough. Each of us also could tell a lie if we chose to do so and I would hope we would not do this but we still could choose to kill someone if we wanted to bad enough. That is called free will and a power of choice, but when one submits to God it is because we love God and want to follow His instructions, (the 10 commandments), so that we do not violate God's law.
It is God's Spirit in us that helps us to will and to do God's good pleasure. I don't even think I could obey on my own as I have failed many times. But it is written If you love me keep (obey) my commandments.
Because Jesus died to pay the price for my sins God then looks at Jesus perfect life and His blood covers my sinful life and that is called justification. However I still do live and breath and make choices everyday and that is where I need the Holy Spirit to help me make the right choices to obey God's law.
L
Linda70
Guest
The Relationship of the Christian to Law and Grace (excerpts)
Before the Mosaic Law was instituted at Mt. Sinai, there were people who lived righteous lives in conformity to God's moral absolutes.
Abel (Hebrews 11:4)
Enoch (Genesis 5:22, 24; Hebrews 11:5)
Noah [(Genesis 6:9; Ezekiel 14:14, 20)
Job (Job 1:8; 2:3; Ezekiel 14:14, 20)
The fact that some people lived righteous lives in conformity to God's moral absolutes before the Mosaic Law was instituted indicates two things:
People can be related to the eternal, unchangeable, moral absolutes of God without being under the moral aspect of the Mosaic Law; and it is possible to be free from the moral aspect of the Mosaic Law without being lawless.
Prior to Mount Sinai, God administered His moral absolutes over all mankind in ways other than through the Mosaic Law. From Mount Sinai to the cross of Jesus Christ, He administered His moral absolutes over Israel through the Mosaic Law. Since the time of the cross, God has been administering His eternal absolutes over all of mankind in a way which is different from and superior to the Mosaic Law. The moral absolutes have not changed, but the way of God's administering those absolutes has changed. For example, idolatry and adultery have been just as wrong in God's sight since the time of the cross as they were when the Mosaic Law was in effect, but since the cross, God has not required the death penalty for those sins (1 Corinthians 6:9-11) as He did when the Mosaic Law was in effect (Exodus 22:20; Leviticus 20:10). The new, superior way of God's administering His moral absolutes is called grace.
Freedom from the moral aspect of the Mosaic Law does not involve freedom from the eternal, unchangeable moral absolutes of God. It only involves freedom from one way of God's administering His absolutes--namely through the Mosaic Law. If one is under God's grace in administering His eternal, unchangeable, moral absolutes, one will not be lawless.
Although the Mosaic Law had three aspects (civil, ceremonial, and moral), it functioned as an indivisible unit. Thus, to place oneself under one aspect of the Mosaic Law is to obligate oneself to be under the entire Law. James declared "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all" (James 2:10). James was asserting that the breaking of only one part of the Mosaic Law made a person guilty of breaking the entire Law. The only way this could be true was if the Mosaic Law were an indivisible unit.
The fact that the Mosaic Law was indivisible by nature has a strong implication concerning the relationship of the Christian to the Mosaic Law. The implication is that since the Mosaic Law was indivisible by nature, the Christian who places himself under its moral aspect obligates himself to keep every aspect of the Law (the civil, ceremonial and moral). (Galatians 3:10)
Source: There Really Is A Difference: A Comparison of Covenant and Dispensational Theology by Renald E. Showers (excerpts from chapter 16, The Relationship of the Christian to Law and Grace, pg. 187-190)
Galatians 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Galatians 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
It's sad when one always equates keeping His commandments with own will and strength...oh wait a minute. Didn't I just say that in my last post?
Does one have to break His commandments to show humility and meekness...oh wait a minute. Didn't I just say that in my last post?
You did say both those things. And I agreed with you that it is sad that you think you can keep the commandments.
And yet you still haven't answered the very simple question that I asked.
You don't understand the Law or the Holy Spirit.
The Law brings us to Christ. After we have come to Christ we don't work at the Law. The Holy Spirit that is grown inside us by the Lord Jesus Christ fulfills the law.
We don't "use" the Holy Spirit to make Judaism work. The Holy Spirit uses us to make Christianity work.
By following law you fall from grace. Your faith is no longer in the work of Christ but in your work at the Law. And then when you fail at the law you say you rely on grace. You are in a vicious, never ending, cycle of fail.
Galatians 5:1-8
[SUP]1[/SUP]Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?
[SUP]8 [/SUP]This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.
Don't you just love Galatians?
If you love me you will keep my commands.
Not, if you love me work really hard at the law.
Why the distinction? Because of the Holy Spirit and how christianity works.
Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
In contrast;
Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Major fallacy and error.
If you work at the law you fall from grace. You are relying on your own self. The law is not of faith.
If you rely on the Lord Jesus Christ you are dead to the law and your own righteousness. You are relying on faith in Christ.
So again, its a really simple question with a really simple answer.
If you think it is ok to work at the law then you are back under condemnation and must keep the whole thing. Bringing back to life your flesh and its work.
There is a new way now. Its not by your work at the law.
Galatians 5:17-18
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Keeping the commandments is not impossible. Its just impossible for flesh people who are trying to keep the commandments. Kind of a weird statement isn't it?
Ezekiel 36:26-27
[SUP]26 [/SUP]A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
This is also a simple concept once you have been born again. The Holy Spirit causes us to walk in His Statutes. How?
Matthew 22:37-40
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[SUP]38 [/SUP]This is the first and great commandment.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
What does the Holy Spirit cause inside of us, in our new hearts of flesh?
Galatians 5:22-23
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
K
Kerry
Guest
L
Linda70
Guest
John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
John 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
John 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
K
Kerry
Guest
Because if you attend church every Sunday or Saturday and have not love, then it profits you nothing. Though I cast out devils and speak with the tongues of angels or Hebrew or Christianese ( thiseth , thoueth, hast, fortnight, and so on) and have not love. Then, I have nothing.
L
Linda70
Guest
Love is not an emotion. It is not broadmindedness. It is not non-judgmentalism. It is not non-critical acceptance. Biblical love is careful. It is based on knowledge and judgment from God's Word. It proves all things, and it approves only those things that are the will of God.
According to the Lord Jesus Christ, though, what is the greatest commandment?
"Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself" (Matthew 22:35-39).
The first and great commandment is not to love one's neighbor. That is the second commandment. The first and great commandment is to love the Lord God will all the heart, soul, and mind.
Matthew 5:19
"Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
K
Kerry
Guest
Lets expand and put it in context
Matthew 5
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, [/FONT]till all be fulfilled.[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]( Jesus fulfilled it)[/FONT]
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. ( They kept the Sabbath rigorously)
21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgmemt.
22But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire (This is above Law)
Matthew 5
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, [/FONT]till all be fulfilled.[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]( Jesus fulfilled it)[/FONT]
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. ( They kept the Sabbath rigorously)
21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgmemt.
22But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire (This is above Law)