How freewill salvation perverts God's Justice !

[newbirth]

Arminaians make God Unjust ! 2


Those who teach that Christ died for people who are yet going to hell for any reason to be punished for anything whatsover as these Matt 25:41; 7:23 they make God Unjust in that He is to everlastingly punish those who have been been Permanently Sanctified by the Death of Christ and Perfected forever Heb 10:10,14

10 By the which will we are (sanctified - set apart for holy use) through the offering[Meaning His Death] of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

14 For by one offering [Meaning His Death] he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

For any of these He died for to be punished for anything, God is Unjust !940

Every believer is set apart for holy use by God.For whatever reasons some choose to or are led astray by false doctrine (remember seed and soil) We cannot hold God responsible for that, he has given us everything that pertains to godliness.
Our position is somewhat like in the garden.The difference is we are reborn in the spirit but we still have to obey God (don't eat of the fruit). Remember Christ is the pattern we must follow, that is why his life was documented so we have an example. So he warns us not to yield our members to unrighteousness because there are consequences.
Heb 10;
[SUP]26 [/SUP]If we deliberately keep on sinning[SUP](AT)[/SUP] after we have received the knowledge of the truth,[SUP](AU)[/SUP] no sacrifice for sins is left, [SUP]27 [/SUP]but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire[SUP](AV)[/SUP] that will consume the enemies of God. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.[SUP](AW)[/SUP] [SUP]29[/SUP]How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God[SUP](AX)[/SUP] underfoot,[SUP](AY)[/SUP] who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant[SUP](AZ)[/SUP] that sanctified them,[SUP](BA)[/SUP] and who has insulted the Spirit[SUP](BB)[/SUP] of grace?[SUP](BC)[/SUP] [SUP]30 [/SUP]For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[SUP][d][/SUP][SUP](BD)[/SUP] and again, “The Lord will judge his people.”[SUP][e][/SUP][SUP](BE)[/SUP] [SUP]31[/SUP]It is a dreadful thing[SUP](BF)[/SUP] to fall into the hands[SUP](BG)[/SUP] of the living God.[SUP](BH)[/SUP]

Notice they were sanctified v 29 Now look at
Rom 1
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers

Dare we call God unjust when it is we who disobey? How are we different from anyone else what did we do to deserve his grace? He did not spare the angels who rebelled.
But he loves us so much and is so merciful towards us he keeps on knocking on the door of our hearts. Brothers we are set apart for holy use let us make ourselves useful for God. We represent him here on earth.

 

[newbirth]

Agreed ! All those whom God's wrath for sin has been satisfied for, they are by and through that satisfaction delivered from the wages and consequences of sin, which is death Rom 6:23 therefore they are delivered from unbelief which is nothing but a consequence of spiritual death for sin, hence the end consequences for all whom have by the death and satisfaction of Christ for them been delivered from death, shall be given Faith to believe on Christ as an evidence !

Ok in other words they are born again fresh start by faith. Very good now add to your faith

2 Peter 1
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

 

[homwardbound]

Read the next verses, 17-21, those who don't believe are condemned because they loved darkness rather than Light, for their deeds were evil, for they hate the Light and won't come to it, because it exposes their deeds. Those who practice truth come to the Light.

All men fall into this category of wickedness, but of us who believe, God brought us out of darkness. We cannot exclude ourselves from John 3:17-20 by claiming we are better because we chose God. That's completely inaccurate. We were as wicked and dead in sin as those people mentioned in those verses. We traded God's glory for a lie, we are all by nature sons of wrath. Only God can rescue us, and only God gets that glory.

Homwardbound, it's man who is dead in sin, he cannot seek God because He doesn't want to! As Jesus put it, everyone who commits a sin is the slave to sin (John 8:34).

So, then all are a slave to sin the moment they sin. So what are we to do with that sin? Are we unrighteous then righteous, then unrighteous again?
Or are we in and out of fellowship, if we sin?
Will anyone's (besides Christ) obedience ever be perfect?

 

[svedbygrace]

Ok in other words they are born again fresh start by faith. Very good now add to your faith

2 Peter 1
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

This is what I stated, please review each point with me:

Agreed ! All those whom God's wrath for sin has been satisfied for, they are by and through that satisfaction delivered from the wages and consequences of sin, which is death Rom 6:23 therefore they are delivered from unbelief which is nothing but a consequence of spiritual death for sin, hence the end consequences for all whom have by the death and satisfaction of Christ for them been delivered from death, shall be given Faith to believe on Christ as an evidence !

 

[newbirth]

This is what I stated, please review each point with me:

and I say OK I agree with you but it does not end there.You are born again(delivered from death) you have faith in Christ the scripture say add to your faith. Look at the last verse(11)
2 Peter 1
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

 

[gregfl]

unbelief which is nothing but a consequence of spiritual death?

wheres is this in the bible?hmmm

 

[svedbygrace]

unbelief which is nothing but a consequence of spiritual death?

wheres is this in the bible?hmmm

The wages of sin is death Rom 6:23 and God concluded all in Unbelief because of sin Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

 

[svedbygrace]

newbirth

and I say OK I agree with you

Then explain what you are saying you agree with !

 

[gregfl]

The wages of sin is death Rom 6:23 and God concluded all in Unbelief because of sin Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

 

[svedbygrace]

2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

The wages of sin is death Rom 6:23 and God concluded all in Unbelief because of sin Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

 

[gregfl]

The wages of sin is death Rom 6:23 and God concluded all in Unbelief because of sin Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Psa 56:5 Every day they wrest my words: all their thoughts are against me for evil.

 

[svedbygrace]

Psa 56:5 Every day they wrest my words: all their thoughts are against me for evil.

The wages of sin is death Rom 6:23 and God concluded all in Unbelief because of sin Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

 

[gregfl]

The wages of sin is death Rom 6:23 and God concluded all in Unbelief because of sin Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

 

[svedbygrace]

Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

The wages of sin is death Rom 6:23 and God concluded all in Unbelief because of sin Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

 

[newbirth]

newbirth



Then explain what you are saying you agree with !

Originally Posted by svedbygrace

Agreed ! All those whom God's wrath for sin has been satisfied for, they are by and through that satisfaction delivered from the wages and consequences of sin, which is death Rom 6:23 therefore they are delivered from unbelief which is nothing but a consequence of spiritual death for sin, hence the end consequences for all whom have by the death and satisfaction of Christ for them been delivered from death, shall be given Faith to believe on Christ as an evidence !

This is what I agree with, you have been delivered and you believe next step...
Romans 8

New International Version (NIV)
Life Through the Spirit

8 Therefore, there is now no condemnation[SUP](A)[/SUP] for those who are in Christ Jesus,[SUP](B)[/SUP][SUP]2 [/SUP]because through Christ Jesus[SUP](C)[/SUP] the law of the Spirit who gives life[SUP](D)[/SUP] has set you[SUP][a][/SUP] free[SUP](E)[/SUP] from the law of sin[SUP](F)[/SUP] and death.[SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the law was powerless[SUP](G)[/SUP] to do because it was weakened by the flesh,[SUP][b][/SUP][SUP](H)[/SUP] God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh[SUP](I)[/SUP] to be a sin offering.[SUP][c][/SUP][SUP](J)[/SUP] And so he condemned sin in the flesh,[SUP]4 [/SUP]in order that the righteous requirement[SUP](K)[/SUP] of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.[SUP](L)[/SUP]

[SUP]5 [/SUP]Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires;[SUP](M)[/SUP] but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.[SUP](N)[/SUP] [SUP]6 [/SUP]The mind governed by the flesh is death,[SUP](O)[/SUP] but the mind governed by the Spirit is life[SUP](P)[/SUP] and peace. [SUP]7 [/SUP]The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God;[SUP](Q)[/SUP] it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Those who are in the realm of the flesh[SUP](R)[/SUP] cannot please God.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh[SUP](S)[/SUP] but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you.[SUP](T)[/SUP] And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ,[SUP](U)[/SUP] they do not belong to Christ. [SUP]10 [/SUP]But if Christ is in you,[SUP](V)[/SUP] then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life[SUP][d][/SUP] because of righteousness. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead[SUP](W)[/SUP] is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies[SUP](X)[/SUP] because of[SUP][e][/SUP] his Spirit who lives in you.

[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it.[SUP](Y)[/SUP] [SUP]13 [/SUP]For if you live according to the flesh, you will die;[SUP](Z)[/SUP] but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body,[SUP](AA)[/SUP] you will live.[SUP](AB)[/SUP]

[SUP]14 [/SUP]For those who are led by the Spirit of God[SUP](AC)[/SUP] are the children of God.[SUP](AD)[/SUP] [SUP]15 [/SUP]The Spirit[SUP](AE)[/SUP] you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again;[SUP](AF)[/SUP] rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship.[SUP][f][/SUP] And by him we cry, “Abba,[SUP][g][/SUP] Father.”[SUP](AG)[/SUP] [SUP]16 [/SUP]The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit[SUP](AH)[/SUP] that we are God’s children.[SUP](AI)[/SUP] [SUP]17 [/SUP]Now if we are children, then we are heirs[SUP](AJ)[/SUP]—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings[SUP](AK)[/SUP] in order that we may also share in his glory.[SUP](AL)

[/SUP][h=3]Ephesians 2:8-10[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Not of works, lest any man should boast.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

 

[gregfl]

The wages of sin is death Rom 6:23 and God concluded all in Unbelief because of sin Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

you cant make the bible say whatever you want.you twist the scriptures to your own destruction.

 

[homwardbound]

unbelief which is nothing but a consequence of spiritual death?

wheres is this in the bible?hmmm

Genesis 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

 

[homwardbound]

Psa 56:5 Every day they wrest my words: all their thoughts are against me for evil.

Sorry, Brother yet were is savedbygrace wrestling with those scriptures posted

Originally Posted by svedbygrace

The wages of sin is death Rom 6:23 and God concluded all in Unbelief because of sin Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Those are just plain fact, whether one wrestles with it or not, is that true?

 

[homwardbound]

Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

Well, who is doing this: our disagreements, and yet quite possibly beleive, not agreeing with ours, does that make you, me or anyone else a unbeliever?
Could not we all here be believers or not be? Who is the one that truly knows the truth in this?
Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Romans 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

So how about just judge the sayings as ask Father to separate any errors from truth that sets us free, and not accuse others, that create and cause divisions, when, if one does beleive we those that do are:


1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Just to be clear, there are no accusations her ein this to you or anyone

 

[homwardbound]

The wages of sin is death Rom 6:23 and God concluded all in Unbelief because of sin Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

This includes you as well right savedbygrace? So if you have received this Mercy, will you show us some and not call us liars?