It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[feedm3]

I think it's interesting that the bible says "believe ON the Lord Jesus Christ"

Is there a difference in believing IN and believing ON?

could one be "believing in His existence" and the other "believing ON His teaching? Jesus says that unless our righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the pharisee we shall in no way enter the kingdom of heaven.

Where does this fit in?

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]9 [/SUP]Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Damn any teaching that opposes this truth in the gospel.

Yes there is. thank you for bringing that out. That's what I am saying as well. You can believe in his existence like Santa, and not obey. that's exactly why he tells us plainly the obedient are saved - Heb 5:9

"..eternal salvation unto all them that obey" does not include every believer.

Yet "all them that obey" includes EVERY true believer.

 

[Deadtosin]

[Why did you leave out, "And such were some of you"?]-Atwood

why did I leave it out? In the scripture I supplied nowhere did I skip a verse.

As far as what came after the verses I supplied. "and such were some of you."

It appears that some of the christians of those days were following after their own flesh, however that takes away not one tittle of what Christ had said before that. again.. one more time.[SUP]9 [/SUP]Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

[SUP]10 [/SUP]Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Atwood, Eternal. ANY OF YOU, how do you detach this doctrine?!

Yes God called the unrighteous to repent.. Think about that. Jesus called the unrighteous to not only regret their sin, but to TURN FROM THEIR SIN.

Let me ask you this atwood. Is repentance simply being sorry? or does it bring change?
Lucifer is sorry. Will he be forgiven? why? or why not?

 

[Atwood]

It seems you guys unaware about the Christian Hope term.

The Hope (of personal salvation) and falsefull climed by OSAS self-confidence are different things.

For me, as for any orthodox OSAS is pure Heresy.
And I am not to continue the disscussion, so I am not to convert you.

Follow your own faith and reap its fruits.

Follow the Lord Jesus, have faith in Him. Sing it with me:

"My faith has found a resting place,
Not in device or creed;
I trust the everliving One,
His wounds for me shall plead;

I need no other argument;
I need no other plea;
It is enough that Jesus died;
And that He died for me.

 

[Atwood]

[Why did you leave out, "And such were some of you"?]-Atwood

why did I leave it out? In the scripture I supplied nowhere did I skip a verse.

As far as what came after the verses I supplied. "and such were some of you."

It appears that some of the christians of those days were following after their own flesh, however that takes away not one tittle of what Christ had said before that. again.. one more time.[SUP]9 [/SUP]Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

[SUP]10 [/SUP]Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Atwood, Eternal. ANY OF YOU, how do you detach this doctrine?!

Nothing was detached except
"And such were some of you: but ye were washed, but ye were sanctified, but ye were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God.

Indeed, there are gross sins, such as listed, which evidence that a person was never saved. I would include the reviling of the gospel that Christ gives eternal life one of those gross sins.

"Yes God called the unrighteous to repent.. Think about that. Jesus called the unrighteous to not only regret their sin, but to TURN FROM THEIR SIN."

The word repentance (metanoia) means a change of mind. the only change of mind that saves is a change from not trusting Christ to trusting Him. It does not primarily imply being sorry, nor turning over a new leaf.

Lucifer is sorry. Will he be forgiven? why? or why not?

How do you know he is sorry?
Christ did not die for angels or cherubim; He became a man and died for men. What does Lucifer have to do with this? Over and over again, the Word of God says to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you WILL be saved? Why do you thrust away eternal life from yourself, since it is a free gift to us, paid for at such great expense by the One Who would be your Savior? Throw away your human speculations and focus on Him; trust Him to do it.

 

[Deadtosin]

I find it interesting that Demons believe IN Jesus... The bible says believe ON Jesus. Jesus is the Cornerstone of the foundation. Believe ON and IN may be different things. You think no?

 

[feedm3]

Atwood;1539512]Believing that saves no one; you must believe in the Savior; that is, trust Him, not just be convinced that some set of facts is true.

"Repent of sin" never is said to save anyone.

Actually, repent is used several times, to save unbelievers and believers.

Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

cant be saved with sins, only the blood can wash that away. So if repentance blots out sin, then repentence leads to the blood.

Jesus also told the Jews, repent or ye shall likewise perish. So if they did not repent, they would persish, Saved people do not perish.

Peter also told the bleiveing Jews and in Acts 2:38 when they asked after he convicted them of their sins, "what shall we do?" He said repent and be baptized for the remmision of their sins, just as 3:19.

Paul told Christians to repent, and that this repentence leads to salvation:

2Co 7:9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

If repentance is TO SALVATION is is essential to salvation, jsut as esential as faith and obedience, sense it takes faith, and obedience to carry out.

Without it, you are not saved. It is not a 4 sided triangle question, it is very simple. Can I live in sin and go to heaven?

The only repent that saves is a change of mind, a change from not trusting Christ to trusting Him.

I agree this does save. A change from not trusting to trusting, means an action. Not like you said a determination.

this action is needed before one can say he is doing the will of the Father, just as Jesus told the Pharisees.

Mat 21:28-31
(28) But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.
(29) He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
(30) And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.
(31) Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

So we see, the action of "going" or "in our case doing" qualifies his change of mind as repentance. If he did not go, then he did not repent.

It would read, he repented and went not" which would not make sense.

Repent is used a few times, as opposed to the multitude of believe or have faith.

Yes but we do not interpret scripture by how many times something is referenced, but what is said in when it's mentioned. And repentance is mentioned as essential to salvation in many contexts.

Being sorry and determining to turn over a new leaf, doesn't save anyone. It is impossible to trust the Lord Jesus to save you from sin and not be saved from sin.

I agree.

But nobody on earth stops fulfilling the truth that in many ways we all stumble.

Of course not, we all stumble, we all will stumble. Repentence is part of the Grace he gave. We did not deserve Chirst, but he gave Him, and through Him we can repent, If we choose not, then we face His justice.

But to postulate

[/COLOR]if I believe with all my heart in the Lord Jesus Who died for me and my sins, and never repent of sin, just live in sin, then I am saved; is to postulate a triangle with 4 sides. That never happens. He is a real Savior Who does saving. You are the savee; He is the Savior. His Saving is effective.

It does happen though. There are many who claim they believe, and sin. I have been doing drugs with people who told me they were saved because they believed, even though they (like me then) lived in sin everyday.

Even when I was in sin, I did not fool myself. I did not agree. I could not tell them if I died in the condition I was in I knew I was saved, knowing I was in sin at that time.

When I started studying, it just reinforced that point when I started reading all the passages that tell us we MUST obey.

So it's not earning just as my children obeying me is not earning anything.

It's respect, reverence, love, and essetial to salavtoin, that causes obedience.

None of us deserved God's grace, that's why it's a gift. None of us did any thing to deserve it, that is why we cannot boast of any works, because without his grace our works would be useless.

Could Noah boast he saved himself because he built the ark? Of course not, God's grace told him destruction was coming. God's grace told him how to build the ark. So God's grace saved him. Yet is was not God's grace alone, It was God's grace + Noah being humble enough to obey it.

If he did not work, he woud have not been saved.

It is the same for us.
God's grace warns us about the coming destruction - Matt 25
God's grace tells us how to be saved - John 3:16 + Acts 2:38 + Heb 5:9
God's grace saves us.

So like Noah can we boast of obedience to God's commands? NOPE As the LORD told us to remain humble and say after "we have kept all that is commanded...we have done only that which is our duty"

So who would boast when we are told how to conduct ourselves by the Lord himself?

It is the word of God that over and over offers salvation on one condition only, faith, belief in the Lord Jesus, trust in Him. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved.

It also the word of God, that gives us the true definition of belief. Trusting him and obeying him. That is believing in Him and on HIM.

Without obedience, belief is nothing
Without belief Obedience is nothing

Together they lead to salavtion which is by God alone.

Thanks for you response Atwood I really do appreatie it,



[/SIZE]

 

[Deadtosin]

I admit I only think fallen angels are sorry based on a book referenced in the bible though not accepted as cannon. The book of Enoch. I'll withdraw that from argument. Though my opinion regardless of the book of Enoch would be any creature knowing it is eternally condemned would regret it's situation.

 

[Atwood]

I admit I only think fallen angels are sorry based on a book referenced in the bible though not accepted as cannon. The book of Enoch. I'll withdraw that from argument. Though my opinion regardless of the book of Enoch would be any creature knowing it is eternally condemned would regret it's situation.

The fanastic, pseudepigraphical book of Enoch is not part of the Bible. Thanks for telling me that fallen angels are sorry in Enoch. I missed or forgot that from my research in (pseudo-)Enoch.

Yes, I would not be surprised if like Judas, angels in Tartarus are sorry.

 

[Deadtosin]

The fanastic, pseudepigraphical book of Enoch is not part of the Bible. Thanks for telling me that fallen angels are sorry in Enoch. I missed or forgot that from my research in (pseudo-)Enoch.

Yes, I would not be surprised if like Judas, angels in Tartarus are sorry.

there are 5 books of enoch, I'm not sold that they are all legit but lets not forget that The book of Enoch is quoted in the bible and we find that very same quote in the very beginning of the first book. Also the book of Enoch talks in depth about something that the bible only barely touches on, however the bible most definitely touches on it. Nephilim.

 

[Atwood]

Actually, repent is used several times, to save unbelievers and believers.

Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Since faith is so many times made the one and only condition of salvation, and since repent (metanoeo) refers to a change of mind; one must conclude that the repentance which saves is a change from not trusting to trusting the Lord Jesus.

Changing the mind to trusting the Lord Jesus leads to appropriation of the cleansing blood of the Lord Jesus. If you trust the Lord Jesus, you are saved, which includes blotting out of sins.

feedm: "Jesus also told the Jews, repent or ye shall likewise perish. So if they did not repent, they would persish, Saved people do not perish."

The repentance which saves, is a change of mind from not believing in Jesus to believing in Him. That salvation includes not perishing. (John 3:16: whosoever believes . . . should not perish")

feedm:

"Paul told Christians to repent, and that this repentence leads to salvation:

2Co 7:9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Again, the change of mind required to initiate salvation, is faith in the Lord Jesus (from non-faith). To postulate that you can be saved and not be saved is a 4 sided-triangle. Salvation is not just a ticket to Heaven, it is a change of nature from Adamic sinner to child of God; it is salvation from sin. Sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law, but under grace.

this action is needed before one can say he is doing the will of the Father, just as Jesus told the Pharisees.

Mat 21:28-31
(28) But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.
(29) He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
(30) And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.
(31) Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

So we see, the action of "going" or "in our case doing" qualifies his change of mind as repentance. If he did not go, then he did not repent.

Surely our belief our trust in the Lord Jesus has practical results.

It would read, he repented and went not" which would not make sense.

ITA

Yes but we do not interpret scripture by how many times something is referenced, but what is said in when it's mentioned. And repentance is mentioned as essential to salvation in many contexts.

I don't see how we neglect an abundance of data in God's word. The rare instances must be interpreted in conformity with the abundant data. Do you have a count as to how many times repent occurs is a verse that also mentions "salvation"? I think it is only a few; but they are easy to understand in light of the abudant "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved" type statements.

I agree.

Of course not, we all stumble, we all will stumble. Repentence is part of the Grace he gave. We did not deserve Chirst, but he gave Him, and through Him we can repent, If we choose not, then we face His justice.

God's punitive justice was satisfied at the cross where propitiation was made. What we will face is his chastisement if we are children of God. Of course everything the Lord does is just.

It does happen though. There are many who claim they believe, and sin. I have been doing drugs with people who told me they were saved because they believed, even though they (like me then) lived in sin everyday.

Yes, a person's claim to believe is not the same thing as the fact that they trust the Lord Jesus as Savior. We don't know really the status of a person's heart, though by their fruit we get an idea of whether or not they are saved.

When I started studying, it just reinforced that point when I started reading all the passages that tell us we MUST obey.

It is surprising to me that you ever had a doubt about needing to obey. I think grace is harder to learn. Love is harder to learn. The thing to concentrate on is not so much, "I MUST OBEY," as "God loves me; and I must love Him and my neighbor."

So it's not earning just as my children obeying me is not earning anything.

It's respect, reverence, love, and essetial to salavtoin, that causes obedience.

None of us deserved God's grace, that's why it's a gift. None of us did any thing to deserve it, that is why we cannot boast of any works, because without his grace our works would be useless.

Could Noah boast he saved himself because he built the ark? Of course not, God's grace told him destruction was coming. God's grace told him how to build the ark. So God's grace saved him.

great statements

Yet is was not God's grace alone, It was God's grace + Noah being humble enough to obey it.

If he did not work, he woud have not been saved.

I don't know any proof for that one. I remember that God could not destroy Sodom so long as Lot was there. Finally the angels (picture having only 4 arms, 2 apiece) saved 4 people by grabbing them by the arms and bringing them out.

You posted some good stuff there feedm

 

[Deadtosin]

[h=3]Atwood, what is he saying here?

1 Corinthians 9:27[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]27 [/SUP]But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

 

[feedm3]

Since faith is so many times made the one and only condition of salvation, and since repent (metanoeo) refers to a change of mind; one must conclude that the repentance which saves is a change from not trusting to trusting the Lord Jesus.

Changing the mind to trusting the Lord Jesus leads to appropriation of the cleansing blood of the Lord Jesus. If you trust the Lord Jesus, you are saved, which includes blotting out of sins.

feedm: "Jesus also told the Jews, repent or ye shall likewise perish. So if they did not repent, they would persish, Saved people do not perish."

The repentance which saves, is a change of mind from not believing in Jesus to believing in Him. That salvation includes not perishing. (John 3:16: whosoever believes . . . should not perish")

feedm:


Again, the change of mind required to initiate salvation, is faith in the Lord Jesus (from non-faith). To postulate that you can be saved and not be saved is a 4 sided-triangle. Salvation is not just a ticket to Heaven, it is a change of nature from Adamic sinner to child of God; it is salvation from sin. Sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law, but under grace.



Surely our belief our trust in the Lord Jesus has practical results.



ITA



I don't see how we neglect an abundance of data in God's word. The rare instances must be interpreted in conformity with the abundant data. Do you have a count as to how many times repent occurs is a verse that also mentions "salvation"? I think it is only a few; but they are easy to understand in light of the abudant "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved" type statements.

I agree.



God's punitive justice was satisfied at the cross where propitiation was made. What we will face is his chastisement if we are children of God. Of course everything the Lord does is just.




Yes, a person's claim to believe is not the same thing as the fact that they trust the Lord Jesus as Savior. We don't know really the status of a person's heart, though by their fruit we get an idea of whether or not they are saved.



It is surprising to me that you ever had a doubt about needing to obey. I think grace is harder to learn. Love is harder to learn. The thing to concentrate on is not so much, "I MUST OBEY," as "God loves me; and I must love Him and my neighbor."



great statements




I don't know any proof for that one. I remember that God could not destroy Sodom so long as Lot was there. Finally the angels (picture having only 4 arms, 2 apiece) saved 4 people by grabbing them by the arms and bringing them out.

You posted some good stuff there feedm

Thanks man. You did to. Never thought about Lot before, he was literally pulled out, that is intresting. Thanks for provoking some good thoughts, I understand what you mean, and again I appreite your response.

 

[crossnote]

I find it interesting that Demons believe IN Jesus... The bible says believe ON Jesus. Jesus is the Cornerstone of the foundation. Believe ON and IN may be different things. You think no?

in/on ehhh. The demons were given no promise to believe because the Son did not become an angel to redeem them.
That's why it says 'the demons believe but tremble'.

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
(Jas 2:19)

 

[Deadtosin]

"The demons were given no promise to believe because the Son did not become an angel to redeem them"-Crossnote


errrr what?

 

[TaylorTG]

"The demons were given no promise to believe because the Son did not become an angel to redeem them"-Crossnote


errrr what?

Oh my God >__>

 

[TaylorTG]

Probably many of us are annoyed by threads being started with false statements, like

OSAS is of satan. Then it is in our face all the time while we present scriptural proof how that if you are saved you are saved.

The reason why this denial is heresy is that it denies the very concept of salvation and that the Lord Jesus is our Savior. Those who take that route have distorted the meaning of salvation and savior. Such a denial is evidence that a man does not trust Christ as His Savior. But salvation is something we must have; we will not receive validation of our life's works.

!

2 Corinthians 5:10
When we appear before the tribunal of Christ, we will receive recompense, good and bad, according to how we lived our lives.

Salvation is not something one receives after an examination and judgment of works, salvation starts with a new birth and includes eternal life right now in this life. "

the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable."

Eternal life refers to Heaven, while eternal death refers to Hell. We cannot say that we are saved or unsaved while we are still on this plane of existence, simply because none of us are curently in Heaven or Hell.



God freely gives us his gifts, if we ask for them. Even if God dumps a bunch of graces onto a human soul, this human soul's free-will will not be taken away. Therefore, we must prove to God that we desire his gifs by two ways:

• Asking for gifts.
• Using what gifts we already have in ways that are beneficial to God and to mankind.

God's gifts are free, but we ourselves must productively use them in order to save ourselves and others.

Rom 8:38-39
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities,
nor things present, nor things to come,
nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

This bible verse applies to the souls who are already in full union with God, souls who already have strong fortresses of faith. There are some Christians whose faith is much weaker.

It is very unwise to apply Romans 8:38-39 to the majority of Christians on Earth, even to the Christians who genuinely do their best to walk the right paths.

While all Christians are followers of the Lord, we cannot say with certainty that we won't be (easily) snatched from God's grasp until our righteousness/holiness reaches the stage where temptations, while still coming, are most easily pushed away.





Examine this thread. T_Laurich genuinely believes in the existence of a divine creator, and he truly wishes to be in full union with the Lord, yet, at this particular point in time, he found it hard to keep his faith.

http://christianchat.com/miscellaneous/70424-why-cant-i-truly-love-god.html

That's right. It's possible for one to be a true Christian while at the sametime having doubts about God's existence and benevolence, and this is where our faith is put under trial.



[HR][/HR]
Only by trial will God realize if we are truly on his side.

The book of Jobs: the entire book

The epistle of James: Read chapter 1.

Our response to trials confirms the state of our souls.

 

[GrandHoboMaster]

Follow the Lord Jesus, have faith in Him. Sing it with me:

"My faith has found a resting place,
Not in device or creed;
I trust the everliving One,
His wounds for me shall plead;

I need no other argument;
I need no other plea;
It is enough that Jesus died;
And that He died for me.

No dude, you follow to the self-made illussion.
Jesus is My Lord. But I realise that I am unworthy to proclaim myself already saved (=saint), before His own final desicion about my soul.
I am not one, who whould sanctify himself in advance.
Let Eternal Judge decide who exactly is deserved which places either on His table or in the outer darkness, outside of His presence.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So you dont believe if one believes and does not obey God (repent) he will not see heaven?

1. Obeying God is not repenting.
2. You can not obey God of your own power. Your works are as bloody rags You can do NOTHING

next.

So you did not say, you lived in sin, were dead, and still saved?

nope. your a liar. I never claimed I lived in sin, or was spiritually dead. Are you ever going to confess your sin of bearing false witness?

Yes you do and Yes you did. I can prove it, so it's not false witness.

You tried that already and failed.

You know it, I know it, so does OSAS people calling you out now know it.

Little by little your exposing yourself.

blah blah blah.

where are these people calling me out on it? I have heard nothing in two days. He asked me questions, i answered. and he must have agreed, because he is no longer asking me.

You are exposed. every time you bear false witness against those who you are attacking.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So true, E-G:
Hope is only in the Lord Jesus.
We expect to see the Lord Jesus.
Hope is the 3rd cardinal virtue of 1 Cor 13.

Faith gives substance to things hoped for.

We shall see His lovely face.
I expect to see those wound scars, in beauty glorified, scars that scream out how much He loves us.
And all because His grace.

Amen brother,

Of course God is going to have to take me by the hand and turn my head toward him to see it, Because I will feel so much shame and unworthiness to even look upon him.

But he has shown in scripture how he will do that very thing.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think it's interesting that the bible says "believe ON the Lord Jesus Christ"

Is there a difference in believing IN and believing ON?

could one be "believing in His existence" and the other "believing ON His teaching? Jesus says that unless our righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the pharisee we shall in no way enter the kingdom of heaven.

Where does this fit in?

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]9 [/SUP]Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Damn any teaching that opposes this truth in the gospel.

why did you not finish the quote?

1 Cor 6: [SUP]11 [/SUP]And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

Our righteousness does not excede the pharisees because we stop sin, it does it because we have been washed (cleansed completely, made white as snow) sanctified 9set apart from the world. adopted as God's children) and justified (declared innocent of all charges against us, declared righteous) in the NAME of Jesus, BY THE Holy SPIRIT.

it is God who cleans us, we can not clean ourself!

yes, in the power of God our lives change, and those sins become less and less, and we start looking like righteous people. But we do not do it on our own (nor do we have the power to) and even after we get there, we are still totally underserving sinful people wihtout the washing and justification of Christ.