It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

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Atwood

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May 1, 2014
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Understanding this scripture is in context from Heb. 5:11- 6:6 if god permits for my, yours or anyone elses maturity

there is plain and simply no more forgiveness to be executed from God to man after the cross it is don, finished for all that will come to belief and see:
Colossians 1:21-23

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]21 [/SUP]And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled [SUP]22 [/SUP]in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: [SUP]23 [/SUP]if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
Great smile on your photo, Homward.

The context goes through Heb 6:9 in particular where the whole passage is explained:
The writer is persuaded of better things concerning the recipients of the letter; those better things are salvation. The writer addresses things that may happen (& do happen) with professed Christians; they profess, then fall away -- some become so hardened that they cannot be brought to that change of mind (repentance) which saves. The persons described, are not saved persons.
 

homwardbound

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Oct 24, 2012
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That isn't what got you there.
Oh yes indeed I see that , and thank you, as there are many doing this and one day will see as Saul did, and was not around for years being taught truth from the error he was doing, Chief of sinners he said he was.
Thanking God to this day to show me this, and is still showing me things whenever my old self gets in the way.
Again Thank you
 

homwardbound

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Oct 24, 2012
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If one is in and remains in a PRESENT TENSE state of crucifying and putting Christ to shame then it will be impossible for them to repent.
Yes, you said it, that is truth. That is not finalizing the cross, that by Christ we are forgiven, made whole, and until one accepts this fact and stops asking for more forgiveness when they sin, and sees what Christ did, gets to possibly see the new life in Spirit and truth, and walk in it, depending on one's motive to know this truth,
God thus has Mercy on whom God will, and we get confirmed by God:
[h=3]Romans 8:16[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]16 [/SUP]The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
 

homwardbound

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Oct 24, 2012
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Great smile on your photo, Homward.

The context goes through Heb 6:9 in particular where the whole passage is explained:
The writer is persuaded of better things concerning the recipients of the letter; those better things are salvation. The writer addresses things that may happen (& do happen) with professed Christians; they profess, then fall away -- some become so hardened that they cannot be brought to that change of mind (repentance) which saves. The persons described, are not saved persons.
Amen to that, we are to study to know Father crying for the Mercy, as we know we can't do what is needed in works to be there one with Father in Spirit and truth, thanks Christ
 

Atwood

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May 1, 2014
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Greek Strong's Number: 4102

The word believes denotes continuous action, meaning continually believing. So does most all the words translated believe. We are saved by grace through believing...... not for a moment, but always.
Continuous action is not always the implication of the present tense, else "in many things we all stumble" (James) would mean that Christians continuously sinned. But taking the present as continuous is consistent with the idea that Christians do not lose their basic faith in Christ, ever.

BDAG (Bauer, etc.) is the standard NT Greek Lexicon. I abridge the very long article on pisteuō, leaving out non-biblical references & refs to modern literature. [My translations of Greek words are in brackets for those who don't read Greek]

BDAG LEXICON

case abbreviations: acc; = accusative, dat = dative.
inf = infinitive; abs = absolute(ly) (no object); pers = person; foll = following
obj = object; v.l. = variant reading
D = the "western text," an inferior text type
Greek letters may be used as outline indicaters, like A. B. C. D.
pass = passive voice

πιστεω pisteuo [I believe]
(the word does not occur in Phlm, 2 Pt, 2 and 3J, Rv. But it is a special favorite of J and 1J, where it is found 96 times and 9 times respectively;

πίστις pistis [faith]
is not found in the gospel at all, and occurs in 1J only once, 5:4.

1. to consider someth. to be true and therefore worthy of one’s trust, believe

a. believe (in) someth., be convinced of someth., w. that which one believes (in) indicated

α. by acc. of thing …ἡ ἀγάπη πάντα πιστεύει [love all-things believes] 1 Cor 13:7

β. by means of a ὅτι-clause believe that [ὅτι = hoti means "that"]
π. περί τινος ὅτι believe concerning someone that J 9:18

γ. by the acc. and inf.
πιστεύομεν σωθῆναι = we believe to be saved Ac 15:11

δ. by means of the dat. of thing give credence to, believe

ε. w. prepositional expressions: εἰς [= into] Ro 4:18, …
On πιστεύειν εἰς τὸ ὄνομά τινος …Rather in the sense
‘put one’s trust in’ Sir 32:21 μὴ πιστεύσῃς ἐν ὁδῷ ἀπροσκόπῳ. …

—ἐπί τινι [upon something]:
πιστεύειν [to believe] ἐπὶ πᾶσιν [upon all things] οἷς ἐλάλησαν οἱ προφῆται [which spoke the prophets] Lk 24:25; Ro 9:33.

b. w. the pers. to whom one gives credence or whom one believes,
in the dat. …τοῖς θεασαμένοις αὐτὸν ἐγηγερμένον οὐκ ἐπίστευσαν they did not believe those who saw him after he was raised from the dead Mk 16:14.

—Also of Jesus and God whom one believes, in that one accepts their disclosures without doubt or contradiction:
Jesus: … Gal 3:6; Js 2:23; (all three Gen 15:6).
ὁ μὴ πιστεύων [the one not believing] τῷ θεῷ [in (the) God] ψεύστην πεποίηκεν αὐτόν [liar has made Him] 1J 5:10b.

c. w. pers. and thing added π. τινί τι believe someone with regard to someth.
—W. dat. of pers. and ὅτι [that] foll.
πιστεύετέ μοι ὅτι ἐγὼ ἐν τῷ πατρί J 14:11a. Cp. 4:21; Ac 27:25.

d. abs. (in which case the context supplies the obj., etc.;)
J 20:29ab πιστεύσαντες those who have nevertheless believed (it=the fact of the Resurrection);
Ac 4:4; 26:27b;
1 Cor 11:18 πιστεύω I believe (it=that there are divisions among you); 15:11;
Js 2:19b even the daemons believe this; Jd 5.
Pass. καρδίᾳ πιστεύεται with (or in) the heart men believe (it=that Jesus was raised fr. the dead) Ro 10:10. …

2. to entrust oneself to an entity in complete confidence, believe (in), trust, w. implication of total commitment to the one who is trusted.
In our lit. God and Christ are objects of this type of faith that
relies on their power and nearness to help,
in addition to being convinced that their revelations or disclosures are true.
The obj. is
a. given

α. in the dat.

Some of the passages referred to in 1b above, end, are repeated, since they may be classified here or there w. equal justification.

Of God: π. τῷ θεῷ [believe (in) God]
Ac 16:34;

—Of Christ: J 6:30 (σοί [in you] =vs. 29 εἰς ὃν ἀπέστειλεν ἐκεῖνος [into whom he sent);
J 8:31 (αὐτῷ [(in) him] =vs. 30 εἰς αὐτόν [into him];
Ac 5:14; 18:8a (both τῷ κυρίῳ [(in {the} Lord] );
Ro 10:14b…; 2 Ti 1:12; .

—Pass. be believed in ἐπιστεύθη ἐν κόσμῳ [was believed in (the) world] 1 Ti 3:16.
—π. τῷ ὀνόματι τοῦ υἱοῦ believe in the name of the Son, i.e. believe in the Son and accept what his name proclaims him to be 1J 3:23.

β. w. εἰς [into] God
J 12:44b; 14:1a ;
—Christ: Mt 18:6; Mk 9:42; J 2:11; 3:15 v.l., 16, 18a, 36; 4:39; 6:29, 35, 40, 47 v.l.; 7:5, 31, 38f, 48; 8:30; 9:35f; 10:42; 11:25, 26a, 45, 48; 12:11, 36 (εἰς τὸ φῶς [into the light]), 37, 42, 44a, 46; 14:1b, 12; 16:9; 17:20; Ac 10:43; 14:23; 18:8 D; 19:4; Ro 10:14a; Gal 2:16; Phil 1:29; 1 Pt 1:8; 1J 5:10a;

—εἰς τὸ ὄνομα Ἰησοῦ [into the name of Jesus] (or αὐτοῦ [of him], etc.) J 1:12; 2:23; 3:18c; 1J 5:13

γ. w. ἐπί and dat.,
of God Ac 11:17 D.
Of Christ: Mt 27:42 v.l.; J 3:15 v.l.; Ro 9:33; 10:11; 1 Pt 2:6 (the last three Is 28:16); 1 Ti 1:16.

δ. w. ἐπί and acc.
of God: Ac 16:34 D; Ro 4:5, 24;
Of Christ: Mt 27:42; J 3:15 v.l.; Ac 9:42; 11:17; 16:31; 22:19.

ε. π. ἔν τινι believe in someone is questionable in our lit.:
in J 3:15 the best rdg. is ἐν αὐτῷ [in him] and is prob. to be construed w. ἔχῃ [may have]

(in J πιστεύω usually takes the prep. εἰς [into] when expressing the obj. of belief, as in 3:16);

in Eph 1:13 both occurrences of ἐν ᾧ [in him/it] are prob. to be construed w. ἐσφραγίσθητε [you were sealed] (=‘in connection with whom you have been sealed’ [cp. 4:30]);
the acts of hearing and believing are coordinate, and πιστεύσαντες [having believed],
along w. ἀκούσαντες, [having heard] is used abs.

b. not expressed at all

Mk 15:32; 16:16f; Lk 8:12f; J 1:7, 50; 3:15, 18b; 4:41f, 48, 53; 5:44; 6:36, 47, 64ab, perh. 69;
9:38; 10:26; 11:15, 40; 12:39; 20:31b; Ac 4:4; 8:13, 37a; 11:21; 13:12, 39, 48; 14:1; 15:5, 7; 17:12, 34; 18:8b, 27; 19:2; 21:25; Ro 1:16; 3:22; 4:11; 10:4; 13:11; 15:13; 1 Cor 1:21; 3:5; 15:2; Gal 3:22; Eph 1:13, 19; 1 Th 2:10, 13; Hb 4:3; 1 Pt 2:7;

—Participles in the var. tenses are also used almost subst.:
(οἱ) πιστεύοντες (the) believers, (the) Christians
Ac 2:44; Ro 3:22; 1 Cor 14:22ab (opp. οἱ ἄπιστοι [unbelievers]);
1 Th 1:7;
(οἱ) πιστεύσαντες (those) who made their commitment = (those) who became believers, (the) Christians, Ac 2:44 v.l.; 4:32; 2 Th 1:10a.

οἱ πεπιστευκότες [the ones having believed] those who became (and remained) believers Ac 19:18; 21:20.

c. A special kind of this faith is the confidence that God or Christ is in a position to help suppliants out of their distress, have confidence
(some of the passages already mentioned might just as well be classified here)
abs. ὡς ἐπίστευσας [as you believed] γενηθήτω σοι may it be done to you in accordance with the confidence you have Mt 8:13.
ὅσα ἂν [whatever] αἰτήσητε [you pray for] πιστεύοντες [believing] whatever you pray for with confidence 21:22. Cp. Mk 5:36; 9:23f; Lk 8:50; 2 Cor 4:13a (Ps 115:1), b.

W. ὅτι foll.: πιστεύετε ὅτι δύναμαι τοῦτο ποιῆσαι; do you have confidence that I am able to do this? Mt 9:28.
—Mk 11:23.

3. entrust τινί τι someth. to someone τὸ ἀληθινὸν[the true (thing) τίς [who] ὑμῖν [to you] πιστεύσει [will entrust]; Lk 16:11.
αὐτόν [self] τινι [to someone] trust oneself to someone J 2:24.

—Pass. πιστεύομαί [I am entrusted] τι [with something].
ἐπιστεύθησαν [they were entrusted (with)] τὰ λόγια τοῦ θεοῦ [the sayings of God] Ro 3:2.
πεπίστευμαι τὸ εὐαγγέλιον [I have been entrusted with the gospel] Gal 2:7;
cp. 1 Th 2:4; 1 Ti 1:11.—Tit 1:3.
οἰκονομίαν [(a) dispensation] πεπίστευμαι [I have been entrusted with] 1 Cor 9:17;

4. be confident about, a unique use found in ὃς μὲν πιστεύει φαγεῖν πάντα, someth. like the one is confident about eating anything Ro 14:2 (a combination of two ideas: ‘the pers. is so strong in the faith’ and: ‘the pers. is convinced that it is permissible to eat anything’; in brief: not cultically fussy. Another probability is the sense

5. think/consider (possible), in Ro 14:2 perh. holds everything possible;
cp. J 9:18 οὐκ ἐπίστευσαν they refused to entertain the possibility, and Ac 9:26.
 

Atwood

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May 1, 2014
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If one is in and remains in a PRESENT TENSE state of crucifying and putting Christ to shame then it will be impossible for them to repent.
Hebrews 6:9 explains the section. Those described are professing Christians, not necessarily true believers, born again.
 

Atwood

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May 1, 2014
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Well, go argue with some Prots, since I am not a Prot. I am catholic. A member of the Unversal Body of Christ, the only Church that ever existed.


It's universal, all right. The Universal church of Satan where all can go to heaven their own way. The one the Pope & Rick Warren goes to.:rolleyes:
You are free to go to the Lake of Fire anyway you choose. But the only way to be saved is to trust the Lord Jesus as your Savior.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved. Then you will be baptized into the one and only Church, the Body of Christ, by the power of the Spirit (1 Cor 12:13)

And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.

What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 3He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 

Atwood

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May 1, 2014
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You kept posting verses where "saved" was in the past tense. So was Paul speaking of certain individuals God randomly chose unconditionally before the world began are saved in past tense?
Saved / salvation is in 3 tenses in the Bible.
Past, present, and future.
When we trusted Christ we were saved.
As we trust Him now, He saves us.
We are guaranteed a final wonderful outcome of bliss, when we shall be saved, perfected and glorified.

Do I need to quote the scripture?
Or do you have a concordance, Bible study program with which to search. I think Biblos.com may have this for you.

SeaBass, instead of arguing, why don't you first search the scriptures? Mark all the passages on the subject. Let the Word and the Spirit convict you of the truth. Be a Noble Berean.
 
Jan 28, 2014
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What you posted is summed up in:
Hebrews 2:3 how shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
Galatians 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
Hebrews 10:28 He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

Moses understood the Law and even said there would be one that came after him, and this today has happened in Christ
To come to life in Spirit and truth as Moses saw afar off as Noah did, with Abraham and many Saints Heb. 11, a great cloud of witnesses to, for God, in knowing and showing, God does just love us, and so maybe time to respond as King David did

Psalm 100:4 Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name.
Sorry, but, you are just trying to substitute and pervert the essence of my thoughts by selective manipulation of separate verses.

If, you like to answer me, then just answer, without attempt to proclaim from my behave, something what I never said.

It seems manipulative trickery with Holy Scritures is beloved hobby of all OSAS funs.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
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Jesus never taught belief only saves, belief only only leaves one lost.

Jesus taught:

Jn 3:16--------- belief >>>>>>>>> not perish/saved
Lk 13:3,5--------repent>>>>>>>>> not perish/saved
Mat 10:32,33----confession>>>>>> saves/not denied
Mk 16:16--------baptized>>>>>>> saved
Many, may times the Word teaches salvation on one condition (by man alone) ,as in John 3:16. Since believe / faith is used so many, many times, with no other condition for man, the rare passages must be interpreted in harmony with that fact.

Repent = metanoeō (metanoia) = change mind (not "be sorry," not "turn over a new leaf"). Judas had a different kind of repentance (metamelomai) which is sorrow, regret for sin -- he had it and hanged himself; it does not save.

The only change of mind which saves is change from not trusting to trusting the Lord Jesus as Savior.

Baptize occurs in context of salvation a rare couple of times. (In Mat 16 the converse is not used for the damned, as lacking baptism; but if you believe not, you are in peril.) But Spirit Baptism is slavific in that it puts the Christian in union with Christ on His cross (co-crucifixion) by putting the believer into the Body of Christ. Thus the believer's Old Man is co-crucified with Christ -- Rom 6. Yet water baptism is never said to save.

In any case, baptism is not an action that a man takes. It is something done to him. Many things were done by God (not us) to get us saved. We were cleansed by the blood of Jesus and forgiven -- but the one thing a man must do is believe in the Son of God, trust Him.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
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Sorry, but, you are just trying to substitute and pervert the essence of my thoughts by selective manipulation of separate verses.

If, you like to answer me, then just answer, without attempt to proclaim from my behave, something what I never said.

It seems manipulative trickery with Holy Scritures is beloved hobby of all OSAS funs.
Hobo, when the scripture is quoted to you, it is Thus saith the Lord, It is written. At that point you are confronted with the Word of God. At that point you should prayerfully consider how the Spirit is convicting you. We don't ask you to believe a thing because we say it. You don't scorn the scripture, do you?

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
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Show us the verse that says Christ forgives the sins of those that do nothing.
Now to him who works, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt.
But to him who does not work, but believes on him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness. Even as David also pronounceth blessing upon the man, unto whom God reckons righteousness apart from works, saying,
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered.

His grace has planned it all,
'tis mine but to believe;
and Recognize his work of love
and Christ receive.


We have but one thing to do, trust the crucified risen Savior to save us -- be content to let Him do His job; get out of His way with our pride. It is not of works, lest anyone should boast.

2 Tim 1:8-9
… God; who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal,

But to Him who works not, but believes
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
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Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Heb 6;6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame


Don't stop at Heb 6:6; 6:9 clearly tells us such apostate were professors, not possessors; never saved. Look at the verse:

For the land which hath drunk the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them for whose sake it is also tilled, receiveth blessing from God: but if it beareth thorns and thistles, it is rejected and nigh unto a curse; whose end is to be burned. But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak:

------------------------

John does NOT say "they were NEVER of us".
John denies both that they were in the past and that they are in the present of us (Christians).

they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they all are not of us."

Thus they were never of us, no time in the past, no time in the present.

As to Simon Magus, I take the "believe" of his to refer to belief in facts, not trust in Christ, the kind of belief that demons have, believing true facts about God, not depending on Him for salvation of course.

Rm 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

2 thes 2:16-17 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
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There is no spirit baptism, 1 Cor 12:13 is water baptism that puts a person into the one church of Christ.

If the church at Ephesus was sealed in Eph 1:13 then explained Rev 2:1-7.
Great observation on Ephesus, SeaBass.

Paul prayed for them that they would know the love of Christ that passes knowledge in Eph 3, yet say some 40 years later the Church has left its first love. So when the Lord through prophet Paul tells the Ephesian believers that they were sealed, that did not guarantee that they could not leave their first love (while being zealous for doctrinal purity). Our love for our Lord can vary from day to day. And if the city church was characterized by loving Christ, that guarantees nothing for the future. But sealed refers to their security in salvation, not to the temperature of their love; neither does the sealing that occurred when they first believed guarantee the spiritual temperature of the next generation.

1 Cor 12:13 has no water in it, but the Spirit of God.

For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of the body, being many, are one body; so also is Christ. For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free; and were all made to drink of one Spirit.

Spirit baptism is contrasted to water baptism:


I indeed baptize you in water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you in the Holy Spirit and in fire:

John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but there cometh he that is mightier than I, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you in the Holy Spirit and in fire:


Why don't you join us in the Body of Christ. If you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ as only & sufficient Savior, you will be saved. And then you will become one of the all who are in one Spirit baptized into the Body of Christ, the holy catholic church.
 
P

phil112

Guest
The Biblical concept is saved. If a man is saved, then he is saved. (duh, rocket science). The expression "always saved," suggests that there is such a thing as temporary saved. But a temporary opportunity to be saved is not saved. It is just a chance to be saved
Answer post 488

Don't stop at Heb 6:6; 6:9 clearly tells us such apostate were professors, not possessors; never saved. Look at the verse:

..................
Simon was saved atwood. And he lost it. Immediately. Acts 8:13-22. To say otherwise is to call Christ a liar.
 
Jan 28, 2014
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Hobo, when the scripture is quoted to you, it is Thus saith the Lord, It is written. At that point you are confronted with the Word of God. At that point you should prayerfully consider how the Spirit is convicting you. We don't ask you to believe a thing because we say it. You don't scorn the scripture, do you?

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
No, Atwood.
When, using verses, you try to pervert the true meaning of any expressed thout in support for your theories, you do exactly the same things which Devil did himself trying to ensnare Lord Jesus by verses:
Matthew 4:6

And jews also many time had tried to ensnare Lord Jesus, using verses of the Law.

And all servants of Satan always are sophisticated and skilled in purposefull manipulations with the Holy Scriptures. For we know from history of the church and the lifestories of saints, how devils always tried to seduce humans into sin using the verses of Holy Testaments.



Using manipulations with seperated verses, selectively chosen you are trying to seduce christians into perishable lie.

And your perverted theories, even with much quotations of Holy Scriptures are not becoming the Word of Lord.

And, I do not argue the scriptures, but evil misusing of scriptures in your own manipulative goals.

Atwood, false teacher, the true word of Lord is alike a sharp sword which is mortal to all who struggle truth (including promoters of false doctrines):[h=1]Revelation 19:11-21[/h]
[h=1][/h]
 

Atwood

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May 1, 2014
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You know, in eastern practice of monkery, such personal condition of soul also is known. When hermit reach such true indweling of Holy Spirit, that he become unable to sin (by significant sins). And it is really rare cases, and always them who reached the level were glorified by God by obvious open miracles.


Are you aware that their is no monkery nor monks in the NT Church? And are you aware that the Word of God warns against ascetism as of no value vs the flesh? Have you read Jerome's humorous account of his monkery? Evidently he fled civilization to escape the temptations of sexual lust. But he reports something like this: "There I was, having half starving myself to death with fasting, withdrawn into a cave, and what came through my mind but dancing women"

such imagenary easiest way to salvation, through attempts to recruit anyone in that sect of SYN = SAVE YOURSELF NOW.
I don't always understand everything you write, Hobo; I appreciate that probably your native language is not English, and that to claim to be a Christian where you live probably invites persecution from Muslims.

But salvation must be accepted in all humility as by grace. I know it goes vs the pride of the natural man to admit that he is too sinful to be sinful to be saved any other way. But it is by grace through faith alone. God be merciful to me a sinner. He only came to offer salvation to sinners, not to the supposed righteous. All our righteousnesses are as filthy rags.

Could you also would argue the verses:
‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’ Matthew 4:7


Humbly accepting God's gracious offer to transform us and give us eternal life just for trusting the Son of God is not putting the Lord to the test, but believing His promises. He cares so much that we trust Him. We don't jump off a tall building to see if an angel will catch us. But we do operate as the Lord Jesus did on basing our beliefs on "It is written."

Are you absolutely sure, that Atwood and all who agreed and accepted the illussion (the personal claim of being saved already) will not deny Jesus under tortures????
I am not the topic, salvation is the topic. But the Lord has promised me and all Christians:

"
13 There has no temptation taken you but such as man can bear: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that you are able; but will with the temptation make also the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it."

I have this lawyer, this advocate, Jesus Christ the righteous; who will maintain my faith if needed, as He did for Peter, when He prayed that Peter's faith would not fail.

If the manifested and preached by them short way to salvation were really work, we would be seing great number of wonderworkers out of their community, like in the times of apostols.
Working sign miracles required special spiritual gifts, which I do not have; nor is it equivalent to spirituality, abiding in Christ. The signs authenticated the initial presentation of the Word of God via prophets (Hebrews 1). But wonders are done by way of evangelizing, proclaiming the gospel so that persons are transformed from sinners to child of God, IMHO, a much more significant miracle than turning water to wine.

These blessings and promises are for All common sheep, not for some imagined class of super-saint:

John 10:27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
 

Cassian

Senior Member
Oct 12, 2013
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Answer post 488

Simon was saved atwood. And he lost it. Immediately. Acts 8:13-22. To say otherwise is to call Christ a liar.
It is interesting that throughout these several threads that all deal with the same topic of attaining eternal life, that there are several different definitions or kinds of faith that OSAS proponents use to get around what scripture says and how scripture defines faith. They are quite unique and shows how one can actually get a square peg in a round hole.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
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Originally Posted by Atwood

Hobo, when the scripture is quoted to you, it is Thus saith the Lord, It is written. At that point you are confronted with the Word of God. At that point you should prayerfully consider how the Spirit is convicting you. We don't ask you to believe a thing because we say it. You don't scorn the scripture, do you?

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.


No, Atwood.
When, using verses, you try to pervert the true meaning of any expressed thout in support for your theories, you do exactly the same things which Devil did himself trying to ensnare Lord Jesus by verses:
Matthew 4:6

And jews also many time had tried to ensnare Lord Jesus, using verses of the Law.
Hobo,

Actually the Pharisees followed the sayings of the fathers, the traditions, instead of the Word of God, the Scriptures. They were rebuked for that. The Lord Jesus proved his statements with "It is written." So there are no grounds to say that this methodology is satanic or Jewish.

Be a Noble Beroean:

And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Beroea: who when they were come thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. Now these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of the mind, examining the Scriptures daily, whether these things were so.

Just prayerfully consider God's Word, and what it says. How does the Spirit convict you?
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
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It is interesting that throughout these several threads that all deal with the same topic of attaining eternal life, that there are several different definitions or kinds of faith that OSAS proponents use to get around what scripture says and how scripture defines faith. They are quite unique and shows how one can actually get a square peg in a round hole.
Read the word carefully Cassian. I don't ask you or anyone to believe something because I say it. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.
How does the Spirit convict you?

John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life