It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[homwardbound]

You are not the reason they are here.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Sorry Brother, but is not this statement you made a fighting of and from your own flesh? Was this not an accusation? Just asking in love to you, as in being wise as a serpent, but harmless as a dove, which I see as not being harmless, only as self protection in flesh fighting flesh. you decide are you drawn in and angry?

 

[homwardbound]

I seem to remember some years ago about someone telling me about a Baptist congregation hiring a new, young preacher. He was very gung-ho on the topic of eternal security and did not let a service go by without preaching on it, or at least mentioning it in his sermons. In time it really hit home with his congregation so much so the congregation realized they did could not lose their salvation no matter what, even if they quit, or rarely showed up for services...which many did.

Low attendance = low contribution. Contribution money went way down, eye-brows went way up....Houston, we have a problem.

I do not know what ever became of that situation but always wondered what that young preacher did. Did he begin to preach to them they would be lost if they did not show at services and put money in the collection plate? But how could he ever tell them that with a straight face? Did he just back off the topic mentioning it very rarely, if ever, again? Did he get fired? What a predicament.

The Spirit of God does not excite the flesh never has and never will, yet Christ is preached and I am glad whether in truth or for self gain, Christ is reached , Hallelujah!

 

[homwardbound]

yep. if ya ever lost it. there is no getting back.

One can't lose what they do not have Brother, For you and I know who is Faithful, and Father is not a liar, mankind is mixing the pure water with droplets of ink as to keep one from the resurrected Chirst and just focus on the death and thus try to be good, when no one is but God. before and after belief is said by anyone
God knows who are his and makes Confirmation in this, whether ones says they are or not is not our concern is it
Rom 8:16

 

[homwardbound]

Heb 6:6 "If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

1) falling away could not be possible of eternal security were true.

2) Why would it be impossible to renew them again to repentance? seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

--Christ is "the reason" one repents.

--Both verbs "crucify" and "put" are present tense and as long as one remains in a continuous state of crucifying and putting to shame "the reason" one repents, then it will be impossible for him to come to repentance. But if one quits crucifying and putting to shame 'the reason" to repent, then one can come to repentance, as did Simon, Acts 8.

Understanding this scripture is in context from Heb. 5:11- 6:6 if god permits for my, yours or anyone elses maturity

there is plain and simply no more forgiveness to be executed from God to man after the cross it is don, finished for all that will come to belief and see:
[h=3]Colossians 1:21-23[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]21 [/SUP]And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled [SUP]22 [/SUP]in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: [SUP]23 [/SUP]if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

 

[homwardbound]

But you would be promoting Calvinist theology if you are saying Paul is talking about the individual unconditionally being "saved" apart from the group "Christian".

Okay, are you confirmed yet?

 

[SeaBass]

[/FONT][/COLOR]It is not. The author of hebrews did not say they fell away, It says If they fall away. Huge difference.

"If" is a conditional word, it means it is possible they can fall away. While eternal security is unconditional, the word "if" is found in many salvic verses making salvation CONDITIONAL.

Which is exactly what you are teaching and promoting, You state the death of christ was not sufficient, For your belief to be true, there must be some sin CHrist did not die for. So if one fell away committing that sin, Christ must return to be crucified again for that sin.

The law put Christ to open shame, It said you could fall away and lose salvation. This is what the author of Hebrews is addressing. That is why, If (as the law states) one could fall away, they could never be renewed. Unless Christ came again.

Your belief puts Christ to shame, It states his death was not sufficient, Your no better then the jews following law eho believed the same thing. Only following different requirements.

Point me to the post where I have said the death of Christ is not sufficient.

Hopefully visitors to this forum will see that false teachers as yourself have make up false straw-man about what other people say in order to promote their false teachings.

You are exposing your gross misunderstanding of the bible when you post that Christ has to come back and be crucified again for Christians that fall away. I do not know how many times I have posted 1 Jn 1:7 on this forum that shows if a Christians falls away Christ's blood no longer washes away all his sins. So the Christian must repent and return to walking in the light where his sins will again all be washed away.

The Hebrew writer shows that as long as they remain in a present tense state of crucifying and putting to shame Christ it will be impossible for them to repent. But they can quit crucifying and putting to shame Christ and come back to repentance and walking in the light.

Christ is the reason one is forgiven ALL SIN. Without the death of Christ, No sin can be forgiven, period. But you want to work your own forgiveness. Good luck with that

Show us the verse that says Christ forgives the sins of those that do nothing.

 

[SeaBass]

this makes no sense, and is just another strawman

Anyone have any matches?

You kept posting verses where "saved" was in the past tense. So was Paul speaking of certain individuals God randomly chose unconditionally before the world began are saved in past tense?

 

[homwardbound]

If once saved always saved is not a heresay, then the demons are saved. Even demons believe that Jesus is Lord and tremble. DEMONS. No one denies that Jesus is Lord except those who do not obey the Holy Spirit when He speaks. Plain and simple.
You listen to flesh ... then it is your master and Jesus does not KNOW you.
Angels were all called sons of God. But the ones who fell still breed lies with men today and make big prideful babies. What is needed in the church today is more meat lovers out of the same people who have been on milk for years, for their own sakes or the Same Lord Jesus who overcame in the Flesh through the same Power will now come upon those like a thief. As one said...i commit adultery one night and i haven't repented and die 10 minutes later...will i be saved?? The answer: Not if He is the supposed Theif that comes unexpected. You have chosen already in whom you served.

The problem I see with demons that believe as many a mankind say they do as well is:
These do not exercise the Faith in Christ and thus the fruits of the Spirit of God are not shown by this exercising of belief, only in masquerading as those religious leaders were doing in the day of visitation

Just because one acts like a duck, smells like one as well, does not make one a duck does it?
So going to Church, reading the word in front of others and hooting and hollering, makes one no more a believer than going to a hen house, make one a hen, or does it?
What did Christ say about this public array in praying aloud and getting pats on the back? was this exposing the motives of us people for acceptation from one to the other?

 

[SeaBass]

Water baptism is merely an outward indicator of the inner cleansing done by the soul cleansing blood of Christ. To get saved, the only requirement is to believe. See the other thread for that. No reason to duplicate everything on this board.

Jesus never taught belief only saves, belief only only leaves one lost.

Jesus taught:

Jn 3:16--------- belief >>>>>>>>> not perish/saved
Lk 13:3,5--------repent>>>>>>>>> not perish/saved
Mat 10:32,33----confession>>>>>> saves/not denied
Mk 16:16--------baptized>>>>>>> saved

 

[Stephen63]

Well, go argue with some Prots, since I am not a Prot. I am catholic. A member of the Unversal Body of Christ, the only Church that ever existed.

It's universal, all right. The Universal church of Satan where all can go to heaven their own way. The one the Pope & Rick Warren goes to.

 

[SeaBass]

Understanding this scripture is in context from Heb. 5:11- 6:6 if god permits for my, yours or anyone elses maturity

there is plain and simply no more forgiveness to be executed from God to man after the cross it is don, finished for all that will come to belief and see:
Colossians 1:21-23

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]21 [/SUP]And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled [SUP]22 [/SUP]in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: [SUP]23 [/SUP]if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

If one is in and remains in a PRESENT TENSE state of crucifying and putting Christ to shame then it will be impossible for them to repent.

 

[Stephen63]

Is this a typical snark by Cassian?
The proof of theological assertions is Scripture.



For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.

Greek Strong's Number: 4102
Greek Word: πίστις
Transliteration: pistis
Phonetic Pronunciation:

pis'-tis
Root: from <G3982>
Cross Reference: TDNT - 6:174,849
Part of Speech: n f
Vine's Words: Assurance, Assure, Assuredly, Belief, Believe, Believers, Faith, Fidelity



Usage Notes:

English Words used in KJV:
faith 239
assurance 1
believe + <G1537> 1
belief 1
them that believe 1
fidelity 1
[Total Count: 244]

from <G3982> (peitho); persuasion, i.e. credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstract constancy in such profession; by extensive the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself :- assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.

The word believes denotes continuous action, meaning continually believing. So does most all the words translated believe. We are saved by grace through believing...... not for a moment, but always.

 

[homwardbound]

Not if he wanted to have the church grow in terms of # and $.
Seriously eternal security has to be preached to church under persecution, very much like Judah under siege when Habakkuk almost doubted his faith.

So isn't this why Paul did not charge and worked, for his living, to not harm the Gospel, mixing unrighteous mammon with truth?

 

[homwardbound]

See the problem isn't believing in eternal life.
That isn't the issue really. It is picking and choosing scriptures you want to obey and not the whole. Jesus brings eternal life, Period. Now, whether it is rising to live or rising to be condemned John 5:29

Yes, and so seeing the whole as a love letter to us from God, I see this as a whole not a piece of the pie, the whole pie, eat and digest little bits at a time as we can handle them, and know the whole is love to us from God's viewpoint. Is why he went to the cross for us to redeem us and give us new life in the resurrected Christ, and be at peace in him, learning truth over errors that we all have, not excusing our errors, actually learn from them, not in condemnation, rather is appreciation at least this is what I see, to this day now, and am still growing this amazing grace

 

[homwardbound]

I agree with this here also 100 percent. Another point: We can't judge someone as good either, nor bad by our own rights but by THE WORD, His Word. We judge by His Word... all mouth and more of actions coming from a heart. His word is given for us to judge both FOR OURSELVES to make sure we are in the faith believing HIS Words. We judge our actions good and bad.... before GOd will have to. Paul said and found this very thing to be true. Amen.

Was not Paul accused of using his liberty as a license to sin?
And did he not say, he will not be Judged of any other, nor does he Judge himself, for it is God that judgeth him, and that he is fine in that. Could it be:
[h=3]Romans 8:16[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]16 [/SUP]The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

 

[homwardbound]

it doesn't seem possible to me, that a person can come into a real relationship with Jesus, and then turn their back on Him. It doesn't seem like after seeing who Jesus is and being saved, that one would want to turn their back on Him. To me it would be like being in middle of ocean with a life preserver and poking hole in it. i believe once we truly come to Christ and have a good root system, there is no turning back.

You get confirmation as you have brother thank you
[h=3]Romans 8:16[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]16 [/SUP]The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

 

[homwardbound]

Good works. Sentence structure noun followed by verb. Not adjective followed by noun.

Those who are made good by Gods righteousness in Christ work to demonstrate Gods love for the lost sheep.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Yes, indeed and have the peace that passes all understanding, Amen Brother, so these whistle while at work you think?

 

[Atwood]

OSAS is a wrong concept = Once Saved Always Saved.

A proper designation is "eternally secure."

The Biblical concept is saved. If a man is saved, then he is saved. (duh, rocket science). The expression "always saved," suggests that there is such a thing as temporary saved. But a temporary opportunity to be saved is not saved. It is just a chance to be saved. You may as well talk about square circles.

To claim one can be saved, not not always saved, is a denial of salvation, and a denial that we have a Savior who has saved us.

We are secure in Him.

Complete in thee,
No work of mine,
Can take, dear Lord,
The place of thine;
Thy blood hath pardon bought for me;
And I am now,
Complete in thee.

"For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified." Heb 10

"For I am persuaded, that
neither death, nor life;
nor angels, nor principalities;
nor things present, nor things to come;
nor powers;
nor height, nor depth,
nor any other creature,
shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

 

[phil112]

Jesus never taught belief only saves, belief only only leaves one lost.

..................

"Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved"

That is what Paul told the jailer. Pretty sure Paul knew what he was talking about. That's all, and exactly, what he said: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ"

"Then Simon himself believed also"............Simon fulfilled all requirements laid out by Christ and relayed by Paul. Simon was saved at that moment.

That is bible. That is not a parable. That is indisputable. That is Paul's gospel that he obtained directly from Christ.

Myself, I would stop well short of calling Paul a liar. You seem to be doing just that. You may want to rethink what you said.

 

[homwardbound]

Brother, regarding to your humility, I would like you to point that acctually the disput not about the OSAS theory, but about the manifested way of applying it to its funs.

Nobody, would argye the verses. Nobody would argue that apostols John and Paul once being saved, always remained saved. As well as the vrious martyrs and saints who proved it by their deaths (not denying Jesus under tortures) and by the miracles done by them during their lives and after their deaths.

You know, in eastern practice of monkery, such personal condition of soul also is known. When hermit reach such true indweling of Holy Spirit, that he become unable to sin (by significant sins). And it is really rare cases, and always them who reached the level were glorified by God by obvious open miracles.

Yes, it is possible.

But we argue, acctually another thing. That Atwood and his co-sectants, (using the true verses and the true rare cases), are manifesting themselves as persons who reached such level of sanctifity, due to their primitive refers to ACCEPTING JESUS WITH ALL HEART.

And they not only show in this their radical indecency and arrogancy. But also are trying to peach such imagenary easiest way to salvation, through attempts to recruit anyone in that sect of SYN = SAVE YOURSELF NOW.

Not a single monk (neither saint) who ever reached the level of sanctifity proclaimed himself as a surely saved person (besides the apostol, who was inspired to that by Spirit).

Cause indiscretion and the true Holy Spirit indwelling are always inconsistent!!!

Could you also would argue the verses: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’ Matthew 4:7

Are you absolutely sure, that Atwood and all who agreed and accepted the illussion (the personal claim of being saved already) will not deny Jesus under tortures????

If the manifested and preached by them short way to salvation were really work, we would be seing great number of wonderworkers out of their community, like in the times of apostols.

But it (such applying of OSAS to themselves) is obviously a work of Satan, by which he tries to catch easily-trusted souls in privitive trap of the illusive selfdeception, which directed in hell.

What you posted is summed up in:
Hebrews 2:3 how shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
Galatians 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
Hebrews 10:28 He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

Moses understood the Law and even said there would be one that came after him, and this today has happened in Christ
To come to life in Spirit and truth as Moses saw afar off as Noah did, with Abraham and many Saints Heb. 11, a great cloud of witnesses to, for God, in knowing and showing, God does just love us, and so maybe time to respond as King David did

Psalm 100:4 Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name.