It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security
- Thread starter Atwood
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Atwood, you invented that false teaching relatively in recent period. While Holy Church exists during almost two milleniums.[/quote]
I did not make up what the Word of God says in the Scripture, written 2 millennial ago. When will you enter the Church and be in the Body of Christ with me? When will you give up and trust the Lord Jesus to save you?
Why are you concerned about me? Read the scripture and apply it to yourself. There you and the Lord and the scripture are; what do I have to do with your need of a Savior? I already quoted you many whosoever / whoever verses, which apply to everyone. Why do you go on making claims for which you have no proof?
My ancestors? Confront yourself with the Word, Hobo. I was raised in religion like you apparently have been. Do you suppose that your POV is correct because you were born into some religion, like many others. Why assume you are correct because you were born into some religion? The same assumptions are world wide for many religions.
As for myself, I left the dead religion I was raised in, phony "Christianity." I have trusted My Savior for salvation and been born again, baptized by the Spirit into the Body of Christ. If you don't trust the Lord Jesus as Savior, then you are no part of that Body.
[/quote]meaning different prctices of protestant sects[/quote]
I deny being a protestant. But you can be of many denominations, even Prot or orthodox, or RCC and be in the Church, if you trust Christ as Savior.
I find nothing about any "sacraments" in my Bible. But it is not your attitude towards "sacraments" that makes you saved or lost -- unless you worship them in idolatry.
Believe God's Word:
End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.
What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? He who spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things?
Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God who justifies;
who is he who condemns?
It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
2 Tim 1:8-9
… God; who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal,
2 thes 2:16-17
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.
Rom 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
I did not make up what the Word of God says in the Scripture, written 2 millennial ago. When will you enter the Church and be in the Body of Christ with me? When will you give up and trust the Lord Jesus to save you?
Why are you concerned about me? Read the scripture and apply it to yourself. There you and the Lord and the scripture are; what do I have to do with your need of a Savior? I already quoted you many whosoever / whoever verses, which apply to everyone. Why do you go on making claims for which you have no proof?
My ancestors? Confront yourself with the Word, Hobo. I was raised in religion like you apparently have been. Do you suppose that your POV is correct because you were born into some religion, like many others. Why assume you are correct because you were born into some religion? The same assumptions are world wide for many religions.
As for myself, I left the dead religion I was raised in, phony "Christianity." I have trusted My Savior for salvation and been born again, baptized by the Spirit into the Body of Christ. If you don't trust the Lord Jesus as Savior, then you are no part of that Body.
[/quote]meaning different prctices of protestant sects[/quote]
I deny being a protestant. But you can be of many denominations, even Prot or orthodox, or RCC and be in the Church, if you trust Christ as Savior.
I find nothing about any "sacraments" in my Bible. But it is not your attitude towards "sacraments" that makes you saved or lost -- unless you worship them in idolatry.
Believe God's Word:
End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.
What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? He who spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things?
Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God who justifies;
who is he who condemns?
It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
2 Tim 1:8-9
… God; who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal,
2 thes 2:16-17
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.
Rom 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Atwood, same way as you try, the shaman of the Cargo cult, were reffered quotations of the Landing Instruction, to prove, that by whatsoever steps explained the Cargo will be finally landed.
Netherless, as we understand without an aircraft and pilot the Cargo never were landed independently of whatsoever proofs.
You may find hundred verbal proves throughout the Scpriptures in support for your claim to be saved.
But without eating true DNA of Jesus, you never can be abiding in Him.
That is a practical tool for the instruction (the Scriptures) you are trying to quote and proclaim as your PROOF!!!
DNA-cod of Jesus Christ = His flesh and His blood, which appear (in informational form) during church service of the true church of Jesus, is only way for living man to become himself a part of the body of Jesus Christ (apart from martyrous death for sake of Jesus).
That is an aircraft, to which the quoted by you instruction (the verses) should be applied.
You should either be murdered for Christ or eat His DNA-cod during your life.
Otherwise you never get the Cargo (salvation) which you are dare to claim you have got already.
Netherless, as we understand without an aircraft and pilot the Cargo never were landed independently of whatsoever proofs.
You may find hundred verbal proves throughout the Scpriptures in support for your claim to be saved.
But without eating true DNA of Jesus, you never can be abiding in Him.
That is a practical tool for the instruction (the Scriptures) you are trying to quote and proclaim as your PROOF!!!
DNA-cod of Jesus Christ = His flesh and His blood, which appear (in informational form) during church service of the true church of Jesus, is only way for living man to become himself a part of the body of Jesus Christ (apart from martyrous death for sake of Jesus).
That is an aircraft, to which the quoted by you instruction (the verses) should be applied.
You should either be murdered for Christ or eat His DNA-cod during your life.
Otherwise you never get the Cargo (salvation) which you are dare to claim you have got already.
Atwood posted:
"Romans 11:6
But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace."
Consequences are not their own cause. You may well argue that if going to Heaven must result from being saved, going to Heaven is a condition for going to Heaven.
Faith brings salvation. Salvation is salvation. You cannot be saved without being saved.
Eph 2:
Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Fruit doesn't make the nature of the tree; the nature of the tree makes fruit.
The argument is based on the nature of grace, not the the Law of Moses. Grace excludes works period.
Of course obedience resulting in doing commands of God means good works. Of course we owe it to God to obey. So then what will we do because we do not obey? What do we do when we find that all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags? Why we trust the Savior to change us and give us the indwelling Spirit who produces good works like fruit in our lives.
Do you mean the Sheep and Goat judgment of Mat 25? So far as I know, all judgment in the Bible is by works; but salvation is always by grace through faith.
What you say is contrary to scripture and the nature of grace:
"But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace."
It is possible to be near grace and walk away from it, yes. Is that where you are? Gal 2 " I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain."
The Lord IN GRACE (against all merit) has done so much to make salvation possible for you, that if you refuse it, that grace which paid for your sins become vain for you.
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God. 21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain. (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
Now is the day of salvation; why not take the knee right now and trust the Lord Jesus as your only and sufficient Savior?
What you say is contrary to the plain word of God. He died for all. But the value of His death is appropriated by whosoever believes in / trusts in the Lord Jesus.
All that is required is trusting Him.
Indeed, the Spirit and the Bride say come. Take of the free water of life.
If the promise is conditional upon us, then we are not sealed. But in fact believers are sealed.
The blood of Jesus Christ God's son cleanses from all sin.
If you want to argue something else, quote your scripture. I am weary of looking up your verses for you.
If you seek to be justified by law, then Christ's death does you no good.
Heb 10:
"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins, [going to the Jerusalem temple with your animals doesn't work; neither does the RCC mass] . . .
For yet a very little while,
He that cometh shall come, and shall not tarry.
But my righteous one shall live by faith:
And if he shrink back, my soul hath no pleasure in him.
But we are not of them that shrink back to perdition; but of them that have faith unto the saving of the soul. "
Those who trust Christ as Savior, those who have faith to the saving of the soul, do not "shrink back to perdition. Mere professors who never trusted Christ as Savior, but played church, depended on their works and water baptism, etc., may shrink back before they ever come to trusting Christ as Savior.
You made a lot of things up without proving them from scripture, which is so crystal clear. Give it up, your works, your filthy rags. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.
The perfection demanded is that of the Father. Christ's death perfects forever whoever trusts Him as SAvior.
Hallelujah! I am so glad you say that!
Of course, God's grace should lead us to love Him, appreciate His great benefits, and respond with presenting ourselves a living sacrifice. Salvation is free, but discipleship costs all.
Hallelujah.
Thus now, throw yourself on God's grace. Depend on Christ and His atonement for your salvation, transformation, and ticket to Heaven.
Take Care, and please don't be offended by my urging you to take the knee.
"Romans 11:6
But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace."
Consequences are not their own cause. You may well argue that if going to Heaven must result from being saved, going to Heaven is a condition for going to Heaven.
Faith brings salvation. Salvation is salvation. You cannot be saved without being saved.
Eph 2:
Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Fruit doesn't make the nature of the tree; the nature of the tree makes fruit.
The argument is based on the nature of grace, not the the Law of Moses. Grace excludes works period.
Of course obedience resulting in doing commands of God means good works. Of course we owe it to God to obey. So then what will we do because we do not obey? What do we do when we find that all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags? Why we trust the Savior to change us and give us the indwelling Spirit who produces good works like fruit in our lives.
Do you mean the Sheep and Goat judgment of Mat 25? So far as I know, all judgment in the Bible is by works; but salvation is always by grace through faith.
What you say is contrary to scripture and the nature of grace:
"But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace."
It is possible to be near grace and walk away from it, yes. Is that where you are? Gal 2 " I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain."
The Lord IN GRACE (against all merit) has done so much to make salvation possible for you, that if you refuse it, that grace which paid for your sins become vain for you.
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God. 21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain. (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
Now is the day of salvation; why not take the knee right now and trust the Lord Jesus as your only and sufficient Savior?
What you say is contrary to the plain word of God. He died for all. But the value of His death is appropriated by whosoever believes in / trusts in the Lord Jesus.
All that is required is trusting Him.
Indeed, the Spirit and the Bride say come. Take of the free water of life.
If the promise is conditional upon us, then we are not sealed. But in fact believers are sealed.
The blood of Jesus Christ God's son cleanses from all sin.
If you want to argue something else, quote your scripture. I am weary of looking up your verses for you.
If you seek to be justified by law, then Christ's death does you no good.
Heb 10:
"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins, [going to the Jerusalem temple with your animals doesn't work; neither does the RCC mass] . . .
For yet a very little while,
He that cometh shall come, and shall not tarry.
But my righteous one shall live by faith:
And if he shrink back, my soul hath no pleasure in him.
But we are not of them that shrink back to perdition; but of them that have faith unto the saving of the soul. "
Those who trust Christ as Savior, those who have faith to the saving of the soul, do not "shrink back to perdition. Mere professors who never trusted Christ as Savior, but played church, depended on their works and water baptism, etc., may shrink back before they ever come to trusting Christ as Savior.
You made a lot of things up without proving them from scripture, which is so crystal clear. Give it up, your works, your filthy rags. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.
The perfection demanded is that of the Father. Christ's death perfects forever whoever trusts Him as SAvior.
Hallelujah! I am so glad you say that!
Of course, God's grace should lead us to love Him, appreciate His great benefits, and respond with presenting ourselves a living sacrifice. Salvation is free, but discipleship costs all.
Hallelujah.
Thus now, throw yourself on God's grace. Depend on Christ and His atonement for your salvation, transformation, and ticket to Heaven.
Take Care, and please don't be offended by my urging you to take the knee.
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The eating is figurative (the words were "spirit"). You receive Christ by believing in Him, see John 1:12.
For this is the will of my Father, that every one that beholdeth the Son, and believeth on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Hebrews 10:14
For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.
Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
John 4:14
But whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.
John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
Psalm 34:22
The Lord redeems the life of his servants; none of those who take refuge in him will be condemned.
Jude 1:24
Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy,
1 Peter 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time
For this is the will of my Father, that every one that beholdeth the Son, and believeth on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Hebrews 10:14
For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.
Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
John 4:14
But whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.
John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
Psalm 34:22
The Lord redeems the life of his servants; none of those who take refuge in him will be condemned.
Jude 1:24
Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy,
1 Peter 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time
That's false, they have always been Saints. They were sanctified by their Election in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4; Jude 1:1 and they were sanctified by Christ's death before they became believers Heb 10:10
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
That word sanctified means:
I.
to render or acknowledge, or to be venerable or hallow
II.
to separate from profane things and dedicate to GodA.
consecrate things to GodB.
dedicate people to God
That's what a Saint is !
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
That word sanctified means:
I.
to render or acknowledge, or to be venerable or hallow
II.
to separate from profane things and dedicate to GodA.
consecrate things to GodB.
dedicate people to God
That's what a Saint is !
No, Dear Atwood!!!
It is practical. When Lord spoke about His flesh and His body, which disciples must eat for having eternal life (John 6:54) He directly told to His disciples about His DNA-code in the Holy Oblation.
Now, we know, what the DNA-code is. But two thousand years ago genetical science were unknown to His disciples.
So, words My flesh and My blood, perfectly explained the secret known now.
In the Holy Oblation of the true church during the service, DNA-code, of the living God = Jesus Christ appears in informational form.
While bread and wine and water remain the same, the Oblation get informative form of DNA-code of Jesus.
And only through eating it, one can get eternal life (apart of becoming murdered martyr).
But, I tell you the secret: Having eating DNA-code of Jesus is not enough (not everyone are saved who ever get eat it).
Same way as for succussful landing by aircraft, not only jet needed, but skill to land it.
For whosoever want be saved must not only eat DNA of Jesus, but keep it in himself till own death.
And in true christian life such skill is sure relaying upon Providence - heavenly care of God about the particular creature.
If anyone (even who eat DNA of Jesus) will tell to himself - I AM SAVED ALREADY!!!
It will be same as a pilot of the aircraft were said in the flight - I AM LANDED ALREADY!!! and so swittched off the auto-pilot system and felt asleep.
Naturally such behaivor will lead him not to the landing, but to the mortal accident.
Lilewise whosoever proclaim himself ALREADY SAVED rejects the Providence of God about his person, and felling asleep into further care about his salvation.
That is why the OSAS theory you relay on is a tool of Devil to get your souls in eternal darkness outside of Christ.
It is practical. When Lord spoke about His flesh and His body, which disciples must eat for having eternal life (John 6:54) He directly told to His disciples about His DNA-code in the Holy Oblation.
Now, we know, what the DNA-code is. But two thousand years ago genetical science were unknown to His disciples.
So, words My flesh and My blood, perfectly explained the secret known now.
In the Holy Oblation of the true church during the service, DNA-code, of the living God = Jesus Christ appears in informational form.
While bread and wine and water remain the same, the Oblation get informative form of DNA-code of Jesus.
And only through eating it, one can get eternal life (apart of becoming murdered martyr).
But, I tell you the secret: Having eating DNA-code of Jesus is not enough (not everyone are saved who ever get eat it).
Same way as for succussful landing by aircraft, not only jet needed, but skill to land it.
For whosoever want be saved must not only eat DNA of Jesus, but keep it in himself till own death.
And in true christian life such skill is sure relaying upon Providence - heavenly care of God about the particular creature.
If anyone (even who eat DNA of Jesus) will tell to himself - I AM SAVED ALREADY!!!
It will be same as a pilot of the aircraft were said in the flight - I AM LANDED ALREADY!!! and so swittched off the auto-pilot system and felt asleep.
Naturally such behaivor will lead him not to the landing, but to the mortal accident.
Lilewise whosoever proclaim himself ALREADY SAVED rejects the Providence of God about his person, and felling asleep into further care about his salvation.
That is why the OSAS theory you relay on is a tool of Devil to get your souls in eternal darkness outside of Christ.
F
NO offense taken at all. If you that's what you feel i need to so, then you should urge me. That shows you care. This is why I am trying the same with you.
Romans 11:6 - Again, without the context being considered, this chapter will not make much sense, espellally if we atempt to make "works" speaking of ALL law in general, when it is strictly speaking of the law of Moses.
Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
He is strictly speaking of the Law of Moses. He is trying to convince them, if any justifaction came through the Law of Moses, by its sacrifices, rituals, offices, then it would no longer be grace. Reason being, they would be justified through eh law and by the law. If no one could keep the law perfectly, then something was needed, and this is where Grace was given.
You said im making things up, but if I continue to show you the context, and you insist this means "law" or "works" in general, then you're ignoring context and forcing a meaning that is not there.
We are under the law of Christ. We are expected to obey and fulfill the law of Christ - gal 6:2
We do not live under a covenant without any rules, (laws, works etc). I understand you know this, i guess the important question is, how to they play a role in salvation?
Well, again, if he is the author of Eternal salvation unto all them that obey - what does this imply?
Two things:
1. Faith alone does nothing as it should serve as motive to finish out what is required on our part obedience.
2. He is NOT the author of salvation unto all them that do NOT obey him.
If one does not obey, and he was never saved is the answer, that does not take away that obedience is essential to salvation.
Also, if that is the case then everyone who fell back into sin would never know if they were ever saved to begin with, so where is the security in that?
Or
One falls back into living in sin and knows he is still saved even in his disobedient state of life, then that contradicts Heb 5:9.
No doubt yet the argument is NOT does faith bring salvation, it is does faith ALONE bring salvation, in which you already answered that when you implied works must follow. If not then what is that faith going to bring?
Again, Grace is undeserved is the message here.
This is not speaking of how grace is received by an individual. This is speaking of how grace is given to the world.
Before you try and say there is no difference, consider Tit 2:11
Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
So this IS the gift. The fact that it has appeared unto ALL men, it is in the reach of anyone who hears the gospel. There is our gift. It's free, it's there. It's not there for ALL men because of works, but because of Grace.
Now how does this free gift that is there for all differ upon each individual?
You know not ALL our saved, yet is has appeared unto all.
Why are not all saved then? Because not ALL will DO what is required.
So then if it's faith only, then not ALL will have this faith. yet if works must follow to quailfy this faith, then not ALL will DO these works of obedience therefore they may have believed, but the grace was in VAIN upon that individual.
Which is why Pual says "as laborers" (workers) together with you ...receive not the grace of God in vain".
He told this to Christians. If they did receive the grace of God in vain...why? Was it not a free gift in their reach? So what happened?
Is it God's fault if they receive His grace in vain..or is it something they did or did not do?
Of course it's not God's fault. So if they were never saved to begin with, or if they walked away from salvation does not matter. The fact that what they did do or not do, cost them salvation. So faith alone? No
The next verse 12
Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
So how do we receive the grace of God in vain - by denying (our obedience or disobedience) what grace TEACHES
It teaches us to repent of sin. Which is essential to be saved.
Wrong. It is contextually speaking of grace in contrast to the works under the law - for the purpose of showing these Christians they are not better than the Jews who may have lost salvation, because salvation came also through their unbelief.
This context in no way is implying grace is not to be obeyed because it was given to all men freely.
Titus 2:10-11 is speaking of the nature of grace, as well II Cor 6:2 and Gal 5. It is a free gift that if we as individuals choose not to obey what Grace teaches (denying flesly lusts, etc ) then we receive this in vain and it BECOMES of no effect to us.
"What will we do"? Exactly what he told us to do in Luke 17:10 we will say "we are unprofitable servants who have only done that which is our duty". he told this to the servants even after "they have kept all that was commanded".
So then, we will not "find out" these things, we already know them as we do them, with a humble attitude, because we already know this.
More of a reason in which we know we must carry this out in order to go to heaven.
What does our obedience being filty rags do with if must have them or not?
Again Tit 2:10-11 what does grace teach you? True Faith. Only one way to have that -obedience thus making it essential to salvation, and rendering faith alone, usless, unless Faith is defined, "belief plus obedience" then it's faith only.
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God. 21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain. (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
My friend, I will never bow to this doctrine, as I know it is false. Too many passages that are plain. Faith only, OSAS are not in accordance with what grace is, what it teaches, nor how we receive it.
If you really trust the Lord, then you will trust his warnings as well as promises. Accordance with this, would be leaving the light headed into darkness.
As for someone never having been saved. that is only said to try and explain away so much that shows repentance is a must.
No one can say if a person was ever saved or not, only God can do that. All we can do is read what he has revealed and use that to make righteous judgment.
Not because we are righteous but because HE is, and His word is, and this word is given to us, which brings grace with it.
What you say is contrary to the plain word of God. He died for all. But the value of His death is appropriated by whosoever believes in / trusts in the Lord Jesus.
All that is required is trusting Him.
Indeed, the Spirit and the Bride say come. Take of the free water of life.
If the promise is conditional upon us, then we are not sealed. But in fact believers are sealed.
The blood of Jesus Christ God's son cleanses from all sin.
If you want to argue something else, quote your scripture. I am weary of looking up your verses for you.
You said "by law"? You leave out the DA "the" do you mean law in general? Like we have no rules that MUST be followed? Or your saying we do have laws under tht NT but it's not a MUST that we obey them?
"The law" is what scripture refers to, and it's referring to "the law of Moses" in it's correct context. Nowhere does it the bible say, imply, nor can we infer we have no law under the NT. The NT is filled with laws.
So Must we keep them in order to be saved? heb 5:9 what are we supposed to obey?
By Gods grace, we are given the oppurity to repent (part of NT law) turn from our sins. To be justified does not mean to deserve. Matt 24 were these being justified by law? those who entered heaven according to there works?
If no, then by what, and why did Jesus base heaven on what they did?
If yes, then you admit it.
Amen. Great words of encouragement to any Christian.
Please explain what you interpret these passages as meaning (the part you highlighted)
Does this mean it is impossible for the Christian to fall back into sin?
Or
he can but will not go to hell?
I have proved much here, you can ignore it if you want, I also keep things in context, but you seem to ignore that too. So your telling me to "give up my obedience" because their fifthly, and this will save me?
Now your really confusing me, in what you believe.
How does one "trust" him. Must we do it, or does God do it for us?
Is "trust" the same as faith? Does "trust" need obedience to follow for it to be trust?
Take Care
F
I forgot to put that in quotes above in my post, I dint say this Atwood did.
As for you posting scirpture me, I have put the scirpture you post in the right context, and explained them correctly where you can see you're misusing them. Please address that, and I have posted enough scripture what has not even been addressed. Ill list them again in a bit and you can deal with them if you want.
feed
That's false, he is speaking of works in general. Paul was speaking to both jews and gentiles. Rom 11:5-6
Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Tools specific to Rom 11:6
Rom 11:6
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
The word works ergon means:
I.
business, employment, that which any one is occupied
A.
that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking
II.
any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind
III.
an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work
érgon (from ergō, "to work, accomplish") – a work or worker who accomplishes something. 2041 /érgon ("work") is a deed (action) that carries out (completes) an inner desire (intension, purpose).
When Paul means the Law of Moses to make a point, the greek article is used The Law, Paul rarely uses that because His Ministry was mainly to the Gentiles.
The word work ergon does include the law of moses but does not restrict to that, you made a false claim !
That's false, he is speaking of works in general. Paul was speaking to both jews and gentiles. Rom 11:5-6
Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Tools specific to Rom 11:6
Rom 11:6
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
The word works ergon means:
I.
business, employment, that which any one is occupied
A.
that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking
II.
any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind
III.
an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work
érgon (from ergō, "to work, accomplish") – a work or worker who accomplishes something. 2041 /érgon ("work") is a deed (action) that carries out (completes) an inner desire (intension, purpose).
When Paul means the Law of Moses to make a point, the greek article is used The Law, Paul rarely uses that because His Ministry was mainly to the Gentiles.
The word work ergon does include the law of moses but does not restrict to that, you made a false claim !
atwood
That's not what Heb 10:14 says, it says this:
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
His death has perfected forever them that are being sanctified, which are those Christ died for Heb 10:10
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Their trusting is not the condition of but the fruit of their being made Perfect by the death of Christ !
That's not what Heb 10:14 says, it says this:
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
His death has perfected forever them that are being sanctified, which are those Christ died for Heb 10:10
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Their trusting is not the condition of but the fruit of their being made Perfect by the death of Christ !
F
No, again the context is speaking of works under the law of Moses. This is what the chapter is about. Isreal. NOt laws in general.
If that was the case, are you saying NT laws have nohting to do with salavtion? Then as I have asked everyone, please explain Heb 5:9.
What are we to obey?
Why is he the author or eternal salvation to those that obey it?
What about those that do not?
A remnant out of what? God's chosen people, those who left the Law (and it's works) for the new covanant that Christ brought. Not all of them were lost.
NOw that they have came to his, they are expected to obey (Heb 5:9, 10:26) Christ, NOT Moses. There is nothing in this chapter speaking of laws in general.
"no more of works" no need to CONTINUE under the works of the law, they are now to be dead to the law of Moses. Not dead to all law.
If you became dead to all law, you would be the most disobedient person, how could you be saved being dead to all law, this would include NT law?
That is just silly to try and force law in general into a book that tells us we are under the NT law - Rom 6:1-f.
Thank you. I have been trying to point this out forever on here. You're right, "works" in EPH 2, and here are speaking of deed type work. Which was the case also in the works of the law of Moses.
Now what about the word for "duty" in Luke 17:10?
Luk 17:10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.
opheilō opheileō
of-i'-lo, of-i-leh'-o
Including its prolonged form (second form) used in certain tenses. Probably from the base of G3786 (through the idea of accruing); to owe (pecuniarily); figuratively to be under obligation (ought, must, should); morally to fail in duty: - behove, be bound, (be) debt (-or), (be) due (-ty), be guilty (indebted), (must) need (-s), ought, owe, should. See also G3785.
So if "keeping all that is commanded" is our "Duty" then we have a NT law that we are under, and its imperative to obey - HEB 5:9
So it is something owed, a debt.
So Jesus is saying we are "obligated, bound, we owe. it's our debt" to keep all that is commanded. So is this a work? NO it's not a deed, it's a duty, big difference.
SO what about those who refuse their duty? Loose salvation? Were never saved? Either way then, our DUTY is essential to salvation.
Yes but "the works" is never used. Just "works". So in order to understand what "works" are refering to, you must use the immediate context, which you're ignoring. In the Context of Rom 11 there is no doubt "works" are referring to the works under the law of Moses.
This is what the entire chapter is speaking of.
Not a false claim. Read what I said - "the law" never mentioned "the" being in front of works. ANd "the law" is mentioned more times than I can count.
If you ignore context, then sure, you can claim that we have no law under the NT, or that it is unimportant. That is deceitful, when the entire chapter is speaking of Jews, under the law, who sought to be saved by it and rejected Christ.
Now why in the world would i read about that, and then throw all of that out, when I see "works" as if he stopped speaking of Jews who sought to be saved under the law, and is now changing mid sentence into a discussion about all laws in General including the one in the NT.
So do you even believe we have laws under the NT?
If that was the case, are you saying NT laws have nohting to do with salavtion? Then as I have asked everyone, please explain Heb 5:9.
What are we to obey?
Why is he the author or eternal salvation to those that obey it?
What about those that do not?
A remnant out of what? God's chosen people, those who left the Law (and it's works) for the new covanant that Christ brought. Not all of them were lost.
NOw that they have came to his, they are expected to obey (Heb 5:9, 10:26) Christ, NOT Moses. There is nothing in this chapter speaking of laws in general.
"no more of works" no need to CONTINUE under the works of the law, they are now to be dead to the law of Moses. Not dead to all law.
If you became dead to all law, you would be the most disobedient person, how could you be saved being dead to all law, this would include NT law?
That is just silly to try and force law in general into a book that tells us we are under the NT law - Rom 6:1-f.
Thank you. I have been trying to point this out forever on here. You're right, "works" in EPH 2, and here are speaking of deed type work. Which was the case also in the works of the law of Moses.
Now what about the word for "duty" in Luke 17:10?
Luk 17:10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.
opheilō opheileō
of-i'-lo, of-i-leh'-o
Including its prolonged form (second form) used in certain tenses. Probably from the base of G3786 (through the idea of accruing); to owe (pecuniarily); figuratively to be under obligation (ought, must, should); morally to fail in duty: - behove, be bound, (be) debt (-or), (be) due (-ty), be guilty (indebted), (must) need (-s), ought, owe, should. See also G3785.
So if "keeping all that is commanded" is our "Duty" then we have a NT law that we are under, and its imperative to obey - HEB 5:9
So it is something owed, a debt.
So Jesus is saying we are "obligated, bound, we owe. it's our debt" to keep all that is commanded. So is this a work? NO it's not a deed, it's a duty, big difference.
SO what about those who refuse their duty? Loose salvation? Were never saved? Either way then, our DUTY is essential to salvation.
Yes but "the works" is never used. Just "works". So in order to understand what "works" are refering to, you must use the immediate context, which you're ignoring. In the Context of Rom 11 there is no doubt "works" are referring to the works under the law of Moses.
This is what the entire chapter is speaking of.
Not a false claim. Read what I said - "the law" never mentioned "the" being in front of works. ANd "the law" is mentioned more times than I can count.
If you ignore context, then sure, you can claim that we have no law under the NT, or that it is unimportant. That is deceitful, when the entire chapter is speaking of Jews, under the law, who sought to be saved by it and rejected Christ.
Now why in the world would i read about that, and then throw all of that out, when I see "works" as if he stopped speaking of Jews who sought to be saved under the law, and is now changing mid sentence into a discussion about all laws in General including the one in the NT.
So do you even believe we have laws under the NT?
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Atwood, my nephew, who in his teens and 20's was a huge Jesus freak, now in his 30's says there is no God and that salvation in Jesus is a flat out lie.
So, because he accepted it in his early years, he does not suffer the same fate as all blasphemers now? That's an incredibly generous get-out-of-jail-free card you're selling there. Frankly, I hope you're right, but that's not what scripture says. That's what lawyers would say.
You're not a lawyer are you? Sure sounds like you should be.
So, because he accepted it in his early years, he does not suffer the same fate as all blasphemers now? That's an incredibly generous get-out-of-jail-free card you're selling there. Frankly, I hope you're right, but that's not what scripture says. That's what lawyers would say.
You're not a lawyer are you? Sure sounds like you should be.
What's a Mattuh foe you?
Attention, those who cannot trust the Lord Jesus with your transformation and destiny, though eternal life is offered as a free gift to men, having cost the Lord Jesus unmeasurable pain on the cross:
What is your problem?
Is it that you just can't trust the Lord Jesus?
or is it that you can't admit that you are too depraved to ever earn salvation by good works?
The word assures the natural man that all his righteousnesses are as filthy rags.
Is there any way you can bring yourself around to this frame of mind:
Amazing grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me.
"Him who knew no sin he made to be sin on our behalf; that we might become the righteousness of God in him."
In Him will your righteousness be found, or it will never be found. You must be made righteous, you can't work it up yourself.
Rom 5
But not as the trespass, so also is the free gift. For if by the trespass of the one [Adam] the many died, much more did the grace of God, and the gift by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many. And not as through one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment came of one to condemnation, but the free gift came of many trespasses unto justification. For if, by the trespass of the one,
[King] death reigned through the one; much more shall they
[King Christian] who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one, even Jesus Christ. So then as through one trespass the judgment came to all men to condemnation; even so through one act of righteousness [by the Lord Jesus] the free gift came unto all men to justification of life. For as through the one man’s [Adam's] disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the one [the Lord Jesus] shall the many be made righteous. And the law came in besides, that the trespass might abound; but where sin abounded, grace did abound more exceedingly: that, as
[King] Sin reigned in death, even so might
[King] Grace reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Attention, those who cannot trust the Lord Jesus with your transformation and destiny, though eternal life is offered as a free gift to men, having cost the Lord Jesus unmeasurable pain on the cross:
What is your problem?
Is it that you just can't trust the Lord Jesus?
or is it that you can't admit that you are too depraved to ever earn salvation by good works?
The word assures the natural man that all his righteousnesses are as filthy rags.
Is there any way you can bring yourself around to this frame of mind:
Amazing grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me.
"Him who knew no sin he made to be sin on our behalf; that we might become the righteousness of God in him."
In Him will your righteousness be found, or it will never be found. You must be made righteous, you can't work it up yourself.
Rom 5
But not as the trespass, so also is the free gift. For if by the trespass of the one [Adam] the many died, much more did the grace of God, and the gift by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many. And not as through one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment came of one to condemnation, but the free gift came of many trespasses unto justification. For if, by the trespass of the one,
[King] death reigned through the one; much more shall they
[King Christian] who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one, even Jesus Christ. So then as through one trespass the judgment came to all men to condemnation; even so through one act of righteousness [by the Lord Jesus] the free gift came unto all men to justification of life. For as through the one man’s [Adam's] disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the one [the Lord Jesus] shall the many be made righteous. And the law came in besides, that the trespass might abound; but where sin abounded, grace did abound more exceedingly: that, as
[King] Sin reigned in death, even so might
[King] Grace reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
F
Luk 17:10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.
Mat 24:45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
Mat 24:46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
Mat 24:47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
Mat 24:48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
Mat 24:49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
Mat 24:50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
Mat 24:51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Believe+Obey = True Faith
Cant have one without the other. No faith worthless obedience, no obedience worthless faith.
Heb 5:9 and having been made perfect, he became unto all them that obey = him the author of eternal salvation;
Rom 2:7 to them that by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and incorruption, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 but unto them that are factious, and obey not the truth, but obey unrighteousness, shall be wrath and indignation,
Rom 2:9 tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that worketh evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Greek;
1Pe 1:21 who through him are believers in God, that raised him from the dead, and gave him glory; so that your faith and hope might be in God.
1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in your obedience to the truth unto unfeigned love of the brethren, love one another from the heart fervently:
Again: Faith+obedience= True faith. What if they had no obedience to the truth?
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fierceness of fire which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 A man that hath set at nought Moses law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant wherewith he was sanctified an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
Rev 2:1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
Rev 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
Rev 2:3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.
Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Please pay close attention to these passages before you hit me with "but there are none righteous..thebible says"..
Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
From the OT, describing the condition of Israel. Paul makes this point that none were righteous, so the Gentiles were not better than the Jews, even though the Jews killed the Messiah, is the point of Romans.
Yet, through Jesus Christ we can be righteous, as the Bible tells it is the Righteous that will be saved. We should not go around calling ourselves the righteousness in some prideful sense, but this is what scripture teaches.
NOw this is important when it comes to understanding God's grace:
Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Rom 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
Rom 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
That is important: "Grace reigns through righteousness UNTO eternal life". Grace reigns or "rules" is "effective" through righteousness - NOT unrighteousness which is sin.
So anyone can see the logical conclusion, if it is through righteousness one obtains grace then we MUST obtain righteousness THROUGH and BY Christ. How?
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Get that? Grace through righteousness, righteousness UNTO eternal life
So here is the plan for us - Grace = Teaches us = Obedience, and Obedience is UNTO righteousness and righteousness is Unto Eternal life
So again "by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. " The only way to become righteous through Christ is by obedience.
By the obedience of one - please do not think YOUR LORD had to obey to make you righteous and you do not! Is the servant above his master?
Our righteousness comes through living by His example and following his commands to the best of our ability.
Does not matter what we believe, if we do not obey, we have not came to righteous through Christ, and cannot have eternal life because grace does NOT reign through unrighteousness.
How many more do we need? How much explaining do these need? how many things must we focus on in these passages that are NOT mentioned, in order to believe these passages are not instructing us we MUST obey? How purposely blind must we become to accept a false doctrine?
Mat 24:45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
Mat 24:46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
Mat 24:47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
Mat 24:48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
Mat 24:49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
Mat 24:50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
Mat 24:51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Believe+Obey = True Faith
Cant have one without the other. No faith worthless obedience, no obedience worthless faith.
Heb 5:9 and having been made perfect, he became unto all them that obey = him the author of eternal salvation;
Rom 2:7 to them that by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and incorruption, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 but unto them that are factious, and obey not the truth, but obey unrighteousness, shall be wrath and indignation,
Rom 2:9 tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that worketh evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Greek;
1Pe 1:21 who through him are believers in God, that raised him from the dead, and gave him glory; so that your faith and hope might be in God.
1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in your obedience to the truth unto unfeigned love of the brethren, love one another from the heart fervently:
Again: Faith+obedience= True faith. What if they had no obedience to the truth?
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fierceness of fire which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 A man that hath set at nought Moses law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant wherewith he was sanctified an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
Rev 2:1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
Rev 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
Rev 2:3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.
Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Please pay close attention to these passages before you hit me with "but there are none righteous..thebible says"..
Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
From the OT, describing the condition of Israel. Paul makes this point that none were righteous, so the Gentiles were not better than the Jews, even though the Jews killed the Messiah, is the point of Romans.
Yet, through Jesus Christ we can be righteous, as the Bible tells it is the Righteous that will be saved. We should not go around calling ourselves the righteousness in some prideful sense, but this is what scripture teaches.
NOw this is important when it comes to understanding God's grace:
Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Rom 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
Rom 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
That is important: "Grace reigns through righteousness UNTO eternal life". Grace reigns or "rules" is "effective" through righteousness - NOT unrighteousness which is sin.
So anyone can see the logical conclusion, if it is through righteousness one obtains grace then we MUST obtain righteousness THROUGH and BY Christ. How?
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Get that? Grace through righteousness, righteousness UNTO eternal life
So here is the plan for us - Grace = Teaches us = Obedience, and Obedience is UNTO righteousness and righteousness is Unto Eternal life
So again "by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. " The only way to become righteous through Christ is by obedience.
By the obedience of one - please do not think YOUR LORD had to obey to make you righteous and you do not! Is the servant above his master?
Our righteousness comes through living by His example and following his commands to the best of our ability.
Does not matter what we believe, if we do not obey, we have not came to righteous through Christ, and cannot have eternal life because grace does NOT reign through unrighteousness.
How many more do we need? How much explaining do these need? how many things must we focus on in these passages that are NOT mentioned, in order to believe these passages are not instructing us we MUST obey? How purposely blind must we become to accept a false doctrine?
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Here is some questions based upon these passages
Which always get ignored)
1Pe 1:21 who through him are believers in God, that raised him from the dead, and gave him glory; so that your faith and hope might be in God.
1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in your obedience to the truth unto unfeigned love of the brethren, love one another from the heart fervently:
1. Why is Peter telling them "YE" or "YOU" have purified your souls in your obedience to the truth?
2. Could these Christians now boast "because of our obedience we have purified our souls?" - No and it would be evil to accuse them of such.
3. Did this mean they did not trust Christ, sense their souls were purified "by their obedience to the truth"?
4. Would any of you accuse them of such?
5. was their obedience a work on their part?
6. If they had not had "obedience to the truth" would their souls still have been purified?
It would be evil to accuse these not trusting God, and earning salvation, because they purified their souls through their obedience. So why are we being accused of such?
OR MAYBE they and Paul understood it was ONLY because of God's grace that their obedience to the truth was able to do anything to their souls which deserved death instead of purification. But also understood it is by grace, and grace demands obedience.
You people really need to pay attention to these things. As said, it would be evil to accuse them of the things that are being said to those who understand they must obey God. Ask yourself where you message is really coming from? Better yet who is it really coming from?
Without reading anything into those two passages a great deal is revealed. When you start reading into them what is not there, a great deal is blocked, yet it changes nothing, the truth remains.
Which always get ignored)1Pe 1:21 who through him are believers in God, that raised him from the dead, and gave him glory; so that your faith and hope might be in God.
1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in your obedience to the truth unto unfeigned love of the brethren, love one another from the heart fervently:
1. Why is Peter telling them "YE" or "YOU" have purified your souls in your obedience to the truth?
2. Could these Christians now boast "because of our obedience we have purified our souls?" - No and it would be evil to accuse them of such.
3. Did this mean they did not trust Christ, sense their souls were purified "by their obedience to the truth"?
4. Would any of you accuse them of such?
5. was their obedience a work on their part?
6. If they had not had "obedience to the truth" would their souls still have been purified?
It would be evil to accuse these not trusting God, and earning salvation, because they purified their souls through their obedience. So why are we being accused of such?
OR MAYBE they and Paul understood it was ONLY because of God's grace that their obedience to the truth was able to do anything to their souls which deserved death instead of purification. But also understood it is by grace, and grace demands obedience.
You people really need to pay attention to these things. As said, it would be evil to accuse them of the things that are being said to those who understand they must obey God. Ask yourself where you message is really coming from? Better yet who is it really coming from?
Without reading anything into those two passages a great deal is revealed. When you start reading into them what is not there, a great deal is blocked, yet it changes nothing, the truth remains.