It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[homwardbound]

Would it not be amazing if some man who is regarded in history as among the most vile, should turn up in Heaven because that wicked man trusted the Lord Jesus as His Savior right before He died, like the thief on the cross.

Manasseh was a very wicked king of Judah, yet he repented (had a change of mind) and was apparently saved.

Then imagine some Pharisaical person, who would not admit his depravity and insisted how he would be saved by his righteous good works, then finds out at the judgment how he is going to the Lake of Fire, but the vile sinner who cried out, "God be merciful to me a sinner," trusting the Lord Jesus and His atonement, went to Heaven. Chagrin time.

I do appreciate you atwood, glad you are not stuck on the cross, have left the wood for the next believer to see truth to the new life in Spirit and truth by the resurrection of Christ

1 Peter 2:24 who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
1 Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
and the more one sees their forgiveness in depth, the depth in return they forgive.
1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.

 

[homwardbound]

Kerry, eternal security is believing God's word how eternal life is God's free gift to those who confess how vile they are and trust the Lord Jesus as their SAvior. Rom 5 tells us what makes us bad or good. Our membership in Adam makes us bad; a membership in the Lord Jesus makes us good. The Lord Jesus paid for all our sins on the cross.

He offers the sinner transformation and eternal life as salvation. He does not offer a man validation of his works. All our righteousnesses are as filthy rags.


God commends His own love for us, in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us. (Rom 5).

He died on our behalf and instead of us doing the Lake of Fire.

We must trust Him to make us good; we look to Him and the Holy Spirit for the production of good fruit (Gal 5).

Eternal security is taking the Lord at His word.

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

Brother just so you know Kerry knows this as well, a little miscommunication took place here somewhere

 

[homwardbound]

Feel free to change this scripture to suit your doctrine because we know where liars go

1John 2 NIV
[SUP]3 [/SUP]We know[SUP](E)[/SUP] that we have come to know him[SUP](F)[/SUP] if we keep his commands.[SUP](G)[/SUP] [SUP]4 [/SUP]Whoever says, “I know him,”[SUP](H)[/SUP] but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person.[SUP](I)[/SUP] [SUP]5 [/SUP]But if anyone obeys his word,[SUP](J)[/SUP] love for God[SUP][a][/SUP] is truly made complete in them.[SUP](K)[/SUP] This is how we know[SUP](L)[/SUP] we are in him: [SUP]6 [/SUP]Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.[SUP](M)[/SUP]


KJV
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Just to be clear, are you making a judgment on me? What is it you are trying to convey to me, and if it is you think I am lying, okay, you have free choice to believe what you want to beleive as all do.
I just do not live like a refugee any more as did when i did take on works for eternal security, not Faith alone that brings about God's finished works to you and all that beleive
For I know this and have seen this many a times:
[h=3]Romans 14:4[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

god is Faithful to cause us to stand, and I have seen it, God is awesome friend

 

[homwardbound]

Oh, oh, I know, I know.......... law school.

I am so glad Jesus is my attorney, anyone else?

 

[homwardbound]

Don't be a castaway
dont give up the crown
pray and remain faithful to the word of God

Maybe pray and ask God how to?

 

[homwardbound]

The NIV is off the beam on this one:

And hereby we know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; but whoso keepeth his word, in him verily hath the love of God been perfected. Hereby we know that we are in him: he that saith he abideth in him ought himself also to walk even as he walked.

You don't walk as He walked, and neither does anyone else. He was perfect (and also commanded men to be perfect -- which they never are). Still the standard is the perfection of Christ.

The text says nothing about how to become a child of God or be saved. It is about assurance of salvation and knowing that you have come to know Him; good works must follow faith, which alone saves, but cannot be "alone."

Romans 11:6
But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

Romans 8:34
Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.


Ephesians 1:13
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

Hebrews 10:14
For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

You don't walk as He walked, and neither does anyone else. He was perfect (and also commanded men to be perfect -- which they never are). Still the standard is the perfection of Christ.

You quoted that above and by his death, we are form Father's viewpoint seen as:
[h=3]Colossians 1:22[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]22 [/SUP]in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

[h=3]Colossians 1:23[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]23 [/SUP]if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;




Which you see from Father's vantage point not his world's, Father through Son makes one perfect in his death, to present one holy before Father to get the free gift in new life in Spirit and truth, via the resurrected Christ not the dead one

We move and have our dead beings by the Spirit of Father, as in the day of Pentecost, where Father leads, we just be God's vessel, like a water glass is a vessel to us

 

[homwardbound]

No, Dear Atwood!!!

It is practical. When Lord spoke about His flesh and His body, which disciples must eat for having eternal life (John 6:54) He directly told to His disciples about His DNA-code in the Holy Oblation.

Now, we know, what the DNA-code is. But two thousand years ago genetical science were unknown to His disciples.
So, words My flesh and My blood, perfectly explained the secret known now.

In the Holy Oblation of the true church during the service, DNA-code, of the living God = Jesus Christ appears in informational form.
While bread and wine and water remain the same, the Oblation get informative form of DNA-code of Jesus.

And only through eating it, one can get eternal life (apart of becoming murdered martyr).

But, I tell you the secret: Having eating DNA-code of Jesus is not enough (not everyone are saved who ever get eat it).

Same way as for succussful landing by aircraft, not only jet needed, but skill to land it.

For whosoever want be saved must not only eat DNA of Jesus, but keep it in himself till own death.
And in true christian life such skill is sure relaying upon Providence - heavenly care of God about the particular creature.

If anyone (even who eat DNA of Jesus) will tell to himself - I AM SAVED ALREADY!!!
It will be same as a pilot of the aircraft were said in the flight - I AM LANDED ALREADY!!! and so swittched off the auto-pilot system and felt asleep.

Naturally such behaivor will lead him not to the landing, but to the mortal accident.

Lilewise whosoever proclaim himself ALREADY SAVED rejects the Providence of God about his person, and felling asleep into further care about his salvation.

That is why the OSAS theory you relay on is a tool of Devil to get your souls in eternal darkness outside of Christ.

So you have eaten from the tree of life Jesus Christ and make such Judgments, is not it god who will cause his to stand, and so we are to edify one another, which from you I am not seeing to help each other grow, I detect a little selfisfness from you, is this true, our more enlightened one
please I think all, here want saved, and to know it, and true or not only God can confirm this:

[h=3]Romans 8:16[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]16 [/SUP]The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Now today, God has confirmed this in me and many others here and there. And we know we are saved and thank God continually, there is no falling asleep as the disciples did in the garden when Christ was there to pray
The dead Spirit in us in the flesh can be willing but is weak and can't.
The purpose for new life in Spirit and truth to walk as he walked in love to all
Romans 8:1
There is therefore now nocondemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 

[homwardbound]

Atwood, my nephew, who in his teens and 20's was a huge Jesus freak, now in his 30's says there is no God and that salvation in Jesus is a flat out lie.

So, because he accepted it in his early years, he does not suffer the same fate as all blasphemers now? That's an incredibly generous get-out-of-jail-free card you're selling there. Frankly, I hope you're right, but that's not what scripture says. That's what lawyers would say.

You're not a lawyer are you? Sure sounds like you should be.

Do you think God is not or is not continued to be with him, to return tom the truth that he knows is true, that would make God not Faithful, when God is, and so watch as he returns one day, For god does not forsake us or leave us in the pit we put ourselves in. I seen the return in this, not only in me, but in others as well. And as soon as one is in the flock of God not Church, God, the devil and evil flesh natures go to work to stop that one from telling others this great news of God to us all, while we were yet sinners God died for us, to give us new life in the resurrected Christ not the dead one. Until one sees this they will try to have new life by good works and be miserable insiode as many are and as I was, before seeing this fact, no brag, flesh can't please God. Only flesh that ever did was and is Christ's and he is not known in flesh today. Only in Spirit and truth

 

[homwardbound]

You assume an awful lot that you have no way of knowing. You know what happens when you assume things, right?

So do not assume, ask God to know, but be careful not to ask amiss.

 

[homwardbound]

So who are you judging? Your nephew or God? God does see things from a different perspective.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Seeing from God's point of view takes:
Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

 

[Kingdom_Mystic]

So do not assume, ask God to know, but be careful not to ask amiss.

Wow Homwardbound you are the steady eddy on this thread. God bless your patience on this and continual diligent guidance on this thread. I would have given up long ago. God Bless!

 

[homwardbound]

Kind of a big thing to assume that God is always right. I never worry when I trust the Lord.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

you know what makes it so hard to trust God whom we do not see is:
Our bad experiences in life where we have put trust in someone or something to be foiled and taken for granted as what we as people have done or still do to others to this very day out of using the excuse kill or be killed, backed into a croner seeing this from our view and not God's

Moses was as this, blocked in and the Egyptians coming, against the Red Sea, and the power of God through Moses is shown forth, God Brethren is our only escape. Stand fast in the Faith of god that God loves you so much that God went to the cross for you to redeem you and give you new life in Spirit and truth.

Which today after the cross is the only way Father can be worshiped in Spirit and truth

• John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
  John 4:22-24 (in Context) John 4 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
• John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
  John 4:23-25 (in Context) John 4 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
• John 14:17 even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
  John 14:16-18 (in Context) John 14 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
• John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
  John 16:12-14 (in Context) John 16 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
• Ephesians 5:9 (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth
  Ephesians 5:8-10 (in Context) Ephesians 5 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
• 2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
  2 Thessalonians 2:12-14 (in Context) 2 Thessalonians 2 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
• 1 John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
  1 John 4:5-7 (in Context) 1 John 4 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
• 1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

 

[SeaBass]

SeaBass,

The jailer was only commanded to believe. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. Nothing else. It is an offer of salvation from God via prophet Paul. Nothing else can be essential on man's part for salvation. If A, then B.

Why should anyone be so heavily invested in denying that Christ saves? He is the Savior. We (if we trust him) are the savees.

This offer of salvation / justification just for trusting the Savior is repeated over and over again. Neither you nor I could merit salvation by works. We find ourselves depraved sinners. We must have a Savior.

For by grace you have been saved THROUGH FAITH, and that not of yourselves, not of works lest anyone should boast.,

End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.

What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? He who spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things?
Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God who justifies;
who is he who condemns?
It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fades not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith to a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Acts 16:30ff

30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washedtheir stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
34 And he brought them up into his house, and set food before them, and rejoiced greatly, with all his house, having believed in God.

I reiterate the point that nowhere ever was the jailer commanded to "believe only"

When the jailer was commanded to believe in verse 31, it was not until verse 32 the jailer was told what to believe > the word of the Lord. It was after he was told what to believe (word of the Lord) that he was baptized. So the jailer in verse 32 was told "the word of the Lord" and the word of the Lord includes baptism, Mk 16:16.



Who is arguing Christ does not save? Christ does save but saves those that obey Him, Heb 5:9.

 

[homwardbound]

Here is some questions based upon these passagesWhich always get ignored)
1Pe 1:21 who through him are believers in God, that raised him from the dead, and gave him glory; so that your faith and hope might be in God.
1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in your obedience to the truth unto unfeigned love of the brethren, love one another from the heart fervently:

1. Why is Peter telling them "YE" or "YOU" have purified your souls in your obedience to the truth?
2. Could these Christians now boast "because of our obedience we have purified our souls?" - No and it would be evil to accuse them of such.
3. Did this mean they did not trust Christ, sense their souls were purified "by their obedience to the truth"?
4. Would any of you accuse them of such?
5. was their obedience a work on their part?
6. If they had not had "obedience to the truth" would their souls still have been purified?

It would be evil to accuse these not trusting God, and earning salvation, because they purified their souls through their obedience. So why are we being accused of such?

OR MAYBE they and Paul understood it was ONLY because of God's grace that their obedience to the truth was able to do anything to their souls which deserved death instead of purification. But also understood it is by grace, and grace demands obedience.

You people really need to pay attention to these things. As said, it would be evil to accuse them of the things that are being said to those who understand they must obey God. Ask yourself where you message is really coming from? Better yet who is it really coming from?

Without reading anything into those two passages a great deal is revealed. When you start reading into them what is not there, a great deal is blocked, yet it changes nothing, the truth remains.

Those who have suffered in the flesh have ceased from sin or if do suffer still are possibly being perfected in Spirit and truth and are about to cease from any flesh good behavior efforts, and turn to the living God to trust God for any and all, whether viewed good or bad

 

[RickyZ]

So do not assume, ask God to know, but be careful not to ask amiss.

That was about Atwood's assumptions on things he has no knowlege of. And you're right, he should make no such assumptions. But since you brought it up, let me go on to say that when people interlace their scriptures with unprovoked personal attacks, that tells me they are speaking from the flesh and not the Spirit. And since the Spirit and the flesh are at odds with each other, that makes them and their testimony highly suspect.

 

[SeaBass]

[/B]


The Lord does not forsake his saints. Therefore, if you are a saint, you are not forsaken. When you are a saint, you have the promise of not being forsaken. You make up something not in the text. You postulate that a saint is not preserved, but the Word says that he is. You twist the words to deny preservation. If you are preserved forever, you cannot be unpreserved.

Christians have "an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."

Example of preservation:

Luke 22: "Simon, Simon, behold, Satan asked to have you, that he might sift you as wheat: but I made supplication for thee, that thy faith fail not;

IF IF IF one is in this preserved group Christian/Saint they will be preserved. But one can fall away from this preserved group and be come "unpreserved"/lost.



Lk 22 why make supplication that his "faith fail not"? Failing faith is IMPOSSIBLE if ES were true.

 

[SeaBass]

SeaBass,
Doctrine is not proven by parables, but by propositional teaching. Also, it is an interpretive error to try to make a parable go on all fours. It is an error to try to allegorize all the details.

The Word is so clear. We must drop our self-righteous fantasies that we are able to get to Heaven by our works. There is none that doeth good, no not one. All our righteousnesses are as filthy rags.

Rom 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 10:27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Truth is presented in parables. And there is no truth to the fact one can live in sin/spend money on harlots and maintain his salvation.

 

[SeaBass]

seabass



Please provide the scripture that says that ?

Jude 1:1 is one verse "Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

Preservation is IN JESUS CHRIST and no individual is unconditionally preserved outside of Christ before the world began by a random choice of God.

 

[homwardbound]

We may agree to disagree on minor issues,
but there are major issues for which the Christian is called to earnestly contend for the faith.

therefore in the love per 1 cor 13:4-13, we embark with no condemnation, God's type of love to all for us to respond in thanksgiving and praise in all appreciation, not to take for granted and use as an occasion to sin since by God we are forgiven
Never was meant to take for granted:
Hebrews 2:3 how shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

 

[Alligator]

SeaBass,
Doctrine is not proven by parables, but by propositional teaching. Also, it is an interpretive error to try to make a parable go on all fours. It is an error to try to allegorize all the details.

The Word is so clear. We must drop our self-righteous fantasies that we are able to get to Heaven by our works. There is none that doeth good, no not one. All our righteousnesses are as filthy rags.

Rom 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 10:27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Truth is presented in parables. And there is no truth to the fact one can live in sin/spend money on harlots and maintain his salvation.

Atwood, please look closely at John 10:27-29. Christ says my sheep hear my voice and FOLLOW ME. So who are those who He will never cast out? Those that FOLLOW HIM. IT IS CONDITIONAL. Also, it says no one will be able to snatch them out of my Father's hand, but it doesn't say we can't withdraw ourselves and stop following Christ on our own choosing.