Why do you believe the law is not binding on Christians?

RedTent · May 27, 2014

You are mixed up!! What Christ did for us is save us from dying for our sins, that has nothing to do with our need to obey law.

It would be impossible for a human to make themselves so perfect that they could have eternal life, from the time of Adam until now. It is only through grace anyone has ever been saved. After the resurrection, that grace was made perfect and complete, it wasn't perfect before. Nothing of the Old Testament was completely replaced, it was perfected. The spirit and truth of the law stayed, and the spirit of the law was explained thoroughly. We are given the HS to help us understand.

We MUST go back to the Old Testament sacrifices and law to see the base from which the new evolved. It is like going to grade school so we can understand high school, it is a necessary beginning. 78% of our scripture is in the OT, and the NT quotes directly from that more than 10% of the time. That is how important God though that scripture is to us.

notuptome · May 27, 2014

What is the question? Has the law changed? The law remains unchanged. The law teaches that man is a sinner. Transgression of the law is made personal.

Christ's death, burial and resurrection did not change the law but satisfied the law for the believer. There is now no condemnation to those who are saved by grace through faith. The law and Gods righteousness demand satisfaction either by your death or the death of Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

john832 · May 27, 2014

SeaBass said:

Murder wasn't a sin at the time of Cain?

Gen 4:7 If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it."
Gen 4:8 Now Cain talked with Abel his brother; and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother and killed him.

The Ten Commandments were not around at the time of Abraham?

Gen 26:5 because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws."

Word for Laws here is TORAH.

Gen 20:3 But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, "Indeed you are a dead man because of the woman whom you have taken, for she is a man's wife."
Gen 20:4 But Abimelech had not come near her; and he said, "Lord, will You slay a righteous nation also?
Gen 20:5 Did he not say to me, 'She is my sister'? And she, even she herself said, 'He is my brother.' In the integrity of my heart and innocence of my hands I have done this."
Gen 20:6 And God said to him in a dream, "Yes, I know that you did this in the integrity of your heart. For I also withheld you from sinning against Me; therefore I did not let you touch her.

Gen 20:9 And Abimelech called Abraham and said to him, "What have you done to us? How have I offended you, that you have brought on me and on my kingdom a great sin? You have done deeds to me that ought not to be done."

Even the Gentile king Abimelech knew something you don't seem to comprehend. The Law against adultery was in full force prior to Mt. Sinai

The Sabbath as well as the other nine Commandments were in force prior to Mt. Sinai...

Exo 16:28 And the LORD said to Moses, "How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws?

Using the Sabbath and the Feast Days as examples...

Isa 56:1 Thus says the LORD: "Keep justice, and do righteousness, For My salvation is about to come, And My righteousness to be revealed.
Isa 56:2 Blessed is the man who does this, And the son of man who lays hold on it; Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath, And keeps his hand from doing any evil."
Isa 56:3 Do not let the son of the foreigner Who has joined himself to the LORD Speak, saying, "The LORD has utterly separated me from His people"; Nor let the eunuch say, "Here I am, a dry tree."
Isa 56:4 For thus says the LORD: "To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths, And choose what pleases Me, And hold fast My covenant,
Isa 56:5 Even to them I will give in My house And within My walls a place and a name Better than that of sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name That shall not be cut off.
Isa 56:6 "Also the sons of the foreigner Who join themselves to the LORD, to serve Him, And to love the name of the LORD, to be His servants— Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath, And holds fast My covenant—
Isa 56:7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain, And make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices Will be accepted on My altar; For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations."

Here we see non-Israelites (read Gentiles here) keeping the Sabbath, the fourth Commandment.

Isa 66:22 "For as the new heavens and the new earth Which I will make shall remain before Me," says the LORD, "So shall your descendants and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass That from one New Moon to another, And from one Sabbath to another, All flesh shall come to worship before Me," says the LORD.

In the New Heavens and New Earth ALL FLESH will keep the Sabbath, the fourth Commandment.

At the return of Christ, ALL nations will keep the Feast of Tabernacles...

Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, on them there will be no rain.
Zec 14:18 If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the LORD strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.
Zec 14:19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.

Whomever told you that the Commandments were only given to Israel, lied to you.

prove-all · May 27, 2014

if you keep gods laws and most importent thing his Sabbath

and do have his Holy spirit in you like he says

we will not even be in a judgement day,

but will allready be immortal for a 1000 years

putting the bad guys down with a rod of iron.

i don't want to be at the great white throne

where everyone judged by there works.

i would rather follow 10 laws now and not have to worry about the 2nd death

,

prove-all · May 27, 2014

yes Egypt will be desolate because they did not listen

and it should be proff for us now to keep

but let the unjust, be unjust still

for they not listen

prove-all · May 27, 2014

the last supper, the testement of new covent,

is about no more sacrifies of blood, he did for all

the old sacrifices of blood only lasted a year

and had to be done over and over

he did not remove Gods 10 commands here

and nowhere else he does away with them

if you love him keep his commandment he said

eternally-gratefull · May 28, 2014

john832 said:

paul is.

the law fulfilled its purpose in paul. it killed him. so he may come to christ.

thats the function of a schoolmaster.

some people I guess still need a schoolmaster after they have graduated?

eternally-gratefull · May 28, 2014

john832 said:

it must have failed for you. Your still trying to get right with God by it.

you evidently have not been killed by it yet (or better yet you do not think you have) thats why your still trying to follow it.

eternally-gratefull · May 28, 2014

RedTent said:

We are told that people in Paul's day spoke against Paul, just as Phil is doing.

Act 6:11 Then they persuaded some men to say, "We heard him speaking blasphemous words against Moses and God!" Act 6:12 They stirred up the people, the elders, and the scribes; so they came, dragged him off, and took him to the Sanhedrin. Act 6:13 They also presented false witnesses who said, "This man does not stop speaking blasphemous words against this holy place and the law. Act 6:14 For we heard him say that Jesus, this Nazarene, will destroy this place and change the customs that Moses handed down to us."

Paul was cleared of all these accusations then, and yet people are still making them. These accusers are not taking the time to find out what was going on that Paul had to correct at that time. The Jews were identifying their love of God by the things they did they set them apart from the gentiles like their diet and circumcision. They insisted that in order to accept God, first the gentiles needed to accept Jewish lifestyle. That was not the truth, and scripture tells us so.

This was the accepted way for people of that day to join in worship with the Jews, if they would have had newspapers in that day it would have been headline news that these things weren't required, headlines would have said the Law of Moses doesn't have to be followed to join the worship of God. No one would have said, as we do now, that it had anything to do with the ten commandments, everyone would have known it meant they didn't have to do any of what was considered weird practices of Jews.

Your right, they crucified pauls words. As you are doing.

Your still trying to have the schoolmaster lead ya. Like John you still have yet to be killed by the law. I pray it kills you soon, it is your only hope to find Christ.

eternally-gratefull · May 28, 2014

RedTent said:

Thanks. You just proved why we are no longer under the law. We can not keep it.

If we were still under the law. You just proved me right, we would be DOOMED. For "cursed is everyone who does not confirm ALL THE WORDS of this law and OBEY THEM.

As you just said, We can not do it.

Israel could not do it. The yoke was to severe. so why do you want to place us under the yoke Israel could not follow?

faroukfarouk · May 28, 2014

eternally-gratefull said:

Hebrews 7 says the law was changed. We now approach God by 'a better hope'.

john832 · May 28, 2014

eternally-gratefull said:

Oh and the parallel universe you live in has actually vanished? The real universe still has solid ground under our feet and sky above our head, so the conclusion we draw from this is...

Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail.

Not one tittle has failed.

john832 · May 28, 2014

faroukfarouk said:

Yes, something was changed (by the way it says changed not done away with), what was changed?

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.

The Priesthood was changed so a change in the Law was necessitated. Now which Law was changed? This one?

Exo 20:14 "You shall not commit adultery.

That determine the Priesthood does it? Or was it this one...

Exo 28:1 "Now take Aaron your brother, and his sons with him, from among the children of Israel, that he may minister to Me as priest, Aaron and Aaron's sons: Nadab, Abihu, Eleazar, and Ithamar.

Num 3:3 These are the names of the sons of Aaron, the anointed priests, whom he consecrated to minister as priests.

Num 3:6 "Bring the tribe of Levi near, and present them before Aaron the priest, that they may serve him.
Num 3:7 And they shall attend to his needs and the needs of the whole congregation before the tabernacle of meeting, to do the work of the tabernacle.
Num 3:8 Also they shall attend to all the furnishings of the tabernacle of meeting, and to the needs of the children of Israel, to do the work of the tabernacle.
Num 3:9 And you shall give the Levites to Aaron and his sons; they are given entirely to him from among the children of Israel.
Num 3:10 So you shall appoint Aaron and his sons, and they shall attend to their priesthood; but the outsider who comes near shall be put to death."

The Levites, namely Aarons descendants, were named Priests. Only they could be Priests and the Priesthood was determined by DNA.

So what changed?

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.
Heb 7:13 For He of whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no man has officiated at the altar.
Heb 7:14 For it is evident that our Lord arose from Judah, of which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning priesthood.

The Priesthood changed from Melchisidec to Aaronic and then back to Mechisidec. This was the change in the Priesthood that necessitated the change of the Law because Jesus Christ was disqualified from being a Priest by DNA. He was of the tribe of Judah...

Heb 7:13 For He of whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no man has officiated at the altar.

And because He will not violate the smallest, what we consider insignificant, portion of His Law, the Law had to be changed to allow Him to be the High Priest after the order of Melchisidec.

Now what does this changed in the Law of the Priesthood have to do with...

Exo 20:13 "You shall not murder.

Nothing! If one reads the whole of chapter 7 of Hebrews, it is quite plain the author is speaking to the change of the Priesthood from the Aaronic to that of Melchisidec.

To pull one verse out of context here and try to say the Law is done away is ludicrous. It is akin to doing this...

Mat 27:5 Then he threw down the pieces of silver in the temple and departed, and went and hanged himself.
Luk 10:37 And he said, "He who showed mercy on him." Then Jesus said to him, "Go and do likewise."
Joh 13:27 Now after the piece of bread, Satan entered him. Then Jesus said to him, "What you do, do quickly."

Pulled directly out of scripture and just as relevant as saying the Law was changed,as in done away, meaning all the Law .

eternally-gratefull · May 28, 2014

john832 said:

I agree 100 %, It has not failed. It did what it was supposed to do for me. it proved I was a sinner, and needed salvation.

I was not talking about me. I was talking about you.

john832 · May 28, 2014

Jackson123 said:

After all of this and you telling us that we do not do sacrifices anymore, what part of this don't you understand?

Heb 9:22 And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.

No, love is NOT all you need. We must have blood shed in our place or our blood will be shed. Sin requires blood and that is what Christ did...

Heb 9:11 But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation.
Heb 9:12 Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.
Heb 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh,
Heb 9:14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Love, love, love, love is all you need. Christ is love and we should just love one another.

Yes we should practice love but ignoring what redemption cost is an affront to Jesus Christ and His sacrifice.

john832 · May 28, 2014

SeaBass said:

What Law are you speaking of? The Law of animal sacrifices, which by the way, was fulfilled by Christ, not done away. If the rest of the Law is done away, then there is no need for Christ's sacrifice to remit sin...

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

So, if the Law was dones away at the crucifixion, anyone alive then or after does not need Christ's sacrifice because there is no sin. Sin is not imputed when there is no Law. No sin, no need for a Savior.

Please not what Paul actually said...

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

Read this carefully, it says that people sinned from the time of Adam to Moses and the death penalty was exacted. Why?

1Jn 3:4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.

Christ did not come to do away with the Law, He came to pay the penalty for breaking the Law. He died in our stead because sin requires blood...

Heb 9:22 And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.

And what is sin?

1Jn 3:4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.

And what is the purpose of the Law?

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, "YOU SHALL NOT COVET."

The Law defines right and wrong. It tells us what sin is. The Law does not save us or condemn us. It defines sin. Sin condemns us to death and Crhist shed blood remits that sin.

svedbygrace · May 28, 2014

The Law is not binding on the True Christian simply because it is being fulfilled in them by Faith upon what Christ has done for them regarding the Law Rom 8:3-4

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

wordhelpsme · May 28, 2014

Romans 10:4 says: Christ ended the law so that everyone that believes in him is made right with God.

svedbygrace · May 28, 2014

wordhelpsme said:

Everyone Christ died for believes in Him, if they don't, thenthey were not of His Sheep Jn 10:26.

Also, a person does not have to believe in order to be made right with God, that is false teaching, the scripture says plainly that by the obedience of one many are made right with God Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one not two shall many be made righteous.

john832 · May 28, 2014

wordhelpsme said:

So, if someone comes around your house tonight, breaks down the door, has his way with you, steals all of your belongings and then burns your house down, he has not done anything unlawful because there is no Law?

Romans 10:4 says no such thing. Here is what it says...

Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

The word for "end" here is...

G5056
τέλος
telos
tel'-os
From a primary word τέλλω tellō (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly the point aimed at as a limit, that is, (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination [literally, figuratively or indefinitely], result [immediate, ultimate or prophetic], purpose); specifically an impost or levy (as paid): - + continual, custom, end (-ing), finally, uttermost. Compare G5411.

It means outcome or point aimed at. This word, G5056 τέλος, is used other places in the N.T., let's look at them...

1Pe 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Yep, G5056 τέλος is the word used here for end. So, is your faith obliterated? Done away with? Brought to an end? or is it brought to an outcome of salvation?

Jas 5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

Same word, G5056 τέλος, for end here. Is this the obliteration of the Lord? The doing away with Him? The use of the word is determined by context. Let's see how a few other translations render it...

New International Version:
Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

International Standard Version:
For the Messiah is the culmination of the Law as far as righteousness is concerned for everyone who believes

Aramaic Bible in Plain English:
For The Messiah is the consummation of The Written Law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

The sense of it is the end result, not the obliteration.

Why do you say it is condemnation to obey? The implication is that we are justified by disobeying the Law. Care to show me a scripture for that? Here is one to chew on...

Rom 2:13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;

I wish I had a nickel for every time someone has misused Rom 10:4

Why do you believe the law is not binding on Christians?

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