Satan deceives w/ signs and wonders; when does that start?

[presidente]

Matthew 7 warns against false prophets, so apparently the audience in Jesus day were to be aware of them. The need to be wary of such things does not start in the distant future. It started at least by the time Jesus preached the sermon on the mount and continues through to this day.

Jesus warned against false prophets, telling of how even those who said they'd prophesied, cast out demons in Jesus' name, and did many wonderful works would be sent away because they were workers of iniquity. But Jesus also said, "Behold I send unto you, prophets, wise men, and scribes..." Jesus spoke of the importance of receiving a prophet in the name of a prophet. Ephesians 4 shows that Jesus gave gifts unto men. Among the gifts are prophets.

So there are true prophets and false prophets in this age. Christians should be wary. We should 'Quench not the Spirit. Despise not prophesyings. Prove all things. Hold fast to that which is good." If we despise prophesyings-- dismiss prophesyings out of hand, considering them all to be false, that is disobedience. But if we don't prove all things, that is also disobedience.

 

[presidente]

About the rapture, something to keep in mind is that II Thessalonians 1 shows that Jesus will return and give the church rest when he executes judgment on them that know not God, when He comes to be admired among them that believe. This passage doesn't say anything about waiting 7 years after rescuing the church to judge the wicked. We should keep chapter 1 in mind when we interpret chapter 2.

'All the bad stuff' doesn't happen after the rapture. Bad stuff can happen now, and we must all be discerning.

 

[faroukfarouk]

About the rapture, something to keep in mind is that II Thessalonians 1 shows that Jesus will return and give the church rest when he executes judgment on them that know not God, when He comes to be admired among them that believe. This passage doesn't say anything about waiting 7 years after rescuing the church to judge the wicked. We should keep chapter 1 in mind when we interpret chapter 2.

'All the bad stuff' doesn't happen after the rapture. Bad stuff can happen now, and we must all be discerning.

Are you really talking about the church? or about tribulation saints?

 

[saved1975]

Some can, some can't. We're all given different gifts.

The Gifts of the Spirit are a different thing to healing miracles and tongues.
For instance, the gift od miracles, 1 Cor 12: 10, Is "THE WORKING OF MIRACLES".
Healing is, "THE GIFTS OF HEALING". v9
Tongues, "ARE FOR INTERPERTING", v10.
And these gifts are given to some and not others.

But Jesus said EVERY BELIEVER shall do the signs, Mk 16: 17--18.
Everyone can speak in tongues, v17.
Everyone can heal the sick, v18.

If there was someone who had "Say", the gifts of healings, We should let them Minister to the sick.
But if there is no one around with the gifts of healings??. Then thank God any believer can lay hands on the sick, And they shall recover.

 

[saved1975]

2 thessalonians 2 says that day (rapture) will not come until the man of sin is revealed. rapture would be after that. if the 1st century church were burned alive, beheaded, tortured and murdered, and crucified, what makes us think we will be saved from it? how arrogant. nothing in scripture points to a "sneaking in and out" of Jesus. this is new doctrine not believed by the early church. when Jesus returns he's coming with force and with a shout of a trumpet like lightning across the sky and everyone will see him.

2 Thess 2: 3 7 Vs 6-7 says the man of sin cant come until the Church is raptured.

I don't think we will saved from the coming tribulation, I KNOW IT, Because the Bible teaches it.
You obviously didn't read my post, Or you don't believe the Bible.

 

[LEPIDUS]

Matthew 7 warns against false prophets, so apparently the audience in Jesus day were to be aware of them. The need to be wary of such things does not start in the distant future. It started at least by the time Jesus preached the sermon on the mount and continues through to this day.

Jesus warned against false prophets, telling of how even those who said they'd prophesied, cast out demons in Jesus' name, and did many wonderful works would be sent away because they were workers of iniquity. But Jesus also said, "Behold I send unto you, prophets, wise men, and scribes..." Jesus spoke of the importance of receiving a prophet in the name of a prophet. Ephesians 4 shows that Jesus gave gifts unto men. Among the gifts are prophets.

So there are true prophets and false prophets in this age. Christians should be wary. We should 'Quench not the Spirit. Despise not prophesyings. Prove all things. Hold fast to that which is good." If we despise prophesyings-- dismiss prophesyings out of hand, considering them all to be false, that is disobedience. But if we don't prove all things, that is also disobedience.

Ok so back to my first concern, there can be people now a days who prophesy and have gifts of the spirit for tongues, healing etc. ?

and how can one test/prove a spirit ?

 

[LEPIDUS]

Are you really talking about the church? or about tribulation saints?

Who are the tribulation saints? Never heard of that.

 

[john832]

The bible said if the prophecy not come to pass, then the prophet is not from the Lord.

There are some Benny Hinn prophecy not come to pass but he make a lot of miracle. Is the miracle from the Lord?

Can false prophet make miracle from the Lord?

Benny Hinn False Prophecies - Homosexuals, Castro, Appearance of Jesus - YouTube

Deu 13:1 "If there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he gives you a sign or a wonder,
Deu 13:2 and the sign or the wonder comes to pass, of which he spoke to you, saying, 'Let us go after other gods'—which you have not known—'and let us serve them,'
Deu 13:3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the LORD your God is testing you to know whether you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
Deu 13:4 You shall walk after the LORD your God and fear Him, and keep His commandments and obey His voice; you shall serve Him and hold fast to Him.

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

 

[Cobus]

Lepidus if I may use MYSELF as an example and how God showed me how I was mislead thinking HE HELAED the people I prayed for in the Name of Jesus.

Ok to understand how I was mislead you have to know it was possible to mislead me as I knew not GOD. I did not know the Word of God and the TRUTH of God. I knew NOTHING about God that was in TRUTH. I kknew of the Lord Jesus chrsit and he died for my sins and I will always be sinner but if I ask for forgiveness and all that NONSENSE about Jesus and how we are now saved... etc, etc. And yet I did not even know 1% of the Bible and WHO GOD REALLY is.

So here goes... First verses we have to look at is this.... Matthew 7:21 to 23. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Now let us make sure we all are in agreement on what is said here.... These people (like the OLD ME) healed people and did wonders IN THE NAME OF JESUS. Please do not overlook the fact that these people (like I did) did the miricles in HIS NAME!!!!! I was one of these people. I healed MANY people in the Name of Jesus. BUT! I also work iniquity.... I also SIN! You see working iniquity is DOING SIN!!!

Now imagine this... I pray for a person in the Name of Jesus, and that person is miraclously healed on the spot. How holy am I? Well not so holy as straight after the healing I go home to watch a porn movie.... And tomorrow who knows, maybe another miricle on healing.... then go and charm another man's wife.... WOW what a life I had.... And do not judge me, we will always be sinners right? WRONG!!!!!

Well this is all true. That is the OLD COBUS I am describing. Then one evening after the Jesus-film was shown I prayed for a two yearold boy. He had a deformed hip and I prayed for the hip, but the boy did not get healed. I went home furious with God... He was wasting my time with His games.... Why does He heal some of the time and when we can make a killing on MANY souls He does not do the miricle?

Then when I got home I got this message from God.... I asked the Lord... God this is your final chance with Cobus, I do NOT want to play this game.... Tell me ARE YOU REAL OR NOT.... WHY DID YOU NOT HEAL THE BOY TONIGHT?...

The answer... First God ROCKED my cstle and the cstle came tumbling down.... 1 John 3:9... Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

My response... NO GOD this Bible is LYING to me... we will always be sinners... Then God gave me the three verses in Matthew 7 we just read... NOt all who will say LORD LORD will enter.... And I saw myself.... I healed people in the Name of Jesus but I also worked the iniquity.... And god says if I am BORN OF GOD I sin not and cannot sin... WOW! How confused was I? All the people told me I was born again... but God says HE NEVER KNEW ME... WOW!!!! And he will tell me... GO AAY FROM ME, YOU THAT WORK THE INIQUITY....

Oh so only the ones that DO NOT WORK INIQUITY can go to GOD and GOD KNOWS THEM..... WOW, Maybe I should ASK GOD WHAT I SHOULD DO..... So I asked... LORD WHAT SHOULD I DO TO KNOW THEE AND FOR YOU TO KNOW ME?.... The answer... GENISIS 1:1 START!!!!!

Today I am a different person, and it is ALL to the glory of God and HIS work and Word in my life. Praise the Lord of Truth, He still do REVEAL TRUTH to those that huger and thirst for it... AMEN!

 

[LEPIDUS]

Lepidus if I may use MYSELF as an example and how God showed me how I was mislead thinking HE HELAED the people I prayed for in the Name of Jesus.

Ok to understand how I was mislead you have to know it was possible to mislead me as I knew not GOD. I did not know the Word of God and the TRUTH of God. I knew NOTHING about God that was in TRUTH. I kknew of the Lord Jesus chrsit and he died for my sins and I will always be sinner but if I ask for forgiveness and all that NONSENSE about Jesus and how we are now saved... etc, etc. And yet I did not even know 1% of the Bible and WHO GOD REALLY is.

So here goes... First verses we have to look at is this.... Matthew 7:21 to 23. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Now imagine this... I pray for a person in the Name of Jesus, and that person is miraclously healed on the spot. How holy am I? Well not so holy as straight after the healing I go home to watch a porn movie.... And tomorrow who knows, maybe another miricle on healing.... then go and charm another man's wife.... WOW what a life I had.... And do not judge me, we will always be sinners right? WRONG!!!!!

Well this is all true. That is the OLD COBUS I am describing. Then one evening after the Jesus-film was shown I prayed for a two yearold boy. He had a deformed hip and I prayed for the hip, but the boy did not get healed. I went home furious with God... He was wasting my time with His games.... Why does He heal some of the time and when we can make a killing on MANY souls He does not do the miricle?

Oh so only the ones that DO NOT WORK INIQUITY can go to GOD and GOD KNOWS THEM..... WOW, Maybe I should ASK GOD WHAT I SHOULD DO..... So I asked... LORD WHAT SHOULD I DO TO KNOW THEE AND FOR YOU TO KNOW ME?.... The answer... GENISIS 1:1 START!!!!!

Today I am a different person, and it is ALL to the glory of God and HIS work and Word in my life. Praise the Lord of Truth, He still do REVEAL TRUTH to those that huger and thirst for it... AMEN!

Thank you, I don't judge you but appreciate the example you used of yourself. And yes although some of my questions are in the air I will refer to study the bible. I guess I wanted an outline of a sort (for lack of a better term) so that I could verify my interpretation, if that makes sense? But how can it be verified with so many different interpretations, right?

lol If while in my pursuit for the Truth shall a question arise I may still post it here to get understanding haha

 

[john832]

About the rapture, something to keep in mind is that II Thessalonians 1 shows that Jesus will return and give the church rest when he executes judgment on them that know not God, when He comes to be admired among them that believe. This passage doesn't say anything about waiting 7 years after rescuing the church to judge the wicked. We should keep chapter 1 in mind when we interpret chapter 2.

'All the bad stuff' doesn't happen after the rapture. Bad stuff can happen now, and we must all be discerning.

Here is something to consider about whether the saints will undergo tribulation and persecution...

Setting the time frame...

Dan 7:23 "Thus he said: 'The fourth beast shall be A fourth kingdom on earth, Which shall be different from all other kingdoms, And shall devour the whole earth, Trample it and break it in pieces.
Dan 7:24 The ten horns are ten kings Who shall arise from this kingdom. And another shall rise after them; He shall be different from the first ones, And shall subdue three kings.

Rev 17:12 "The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast.
Rev 17:13 These are of one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast.
Rev 17:14 These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful."

These ten kings are extant for a short time (one hour) and make war with the Lamb. This is the end time.

Dan 7:25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, Shall persecute the saints of the Most High, And shall intend to change times and law. Then the saints shall be given into his hand For a time and times and half a time. - NKJV

The Beast will persecute and "wear out" the saints for 3-1/2 years. Have any of our brethren ever been persectued to death?

Rev 6:11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.

Heb 11:35 Women received their dead raised to life again. Others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection.
Heb 11:36 Still others had trial of mockings and scourgings, yes, and of chains and imprisonment.
Heb 11:37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two (Isaiah, for one), were tempted, were slain with the sword. They wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented—
Heb 11:38 of whom the world was not worthy. They wandered in deserts and mountains, in dens and caves of the earth.

This false notion invented by Fransisco Ribera and perpetrated by John Nelson Darby about a "rapture" to keep the saints from trial and tribulation is going to bring heartache and misery to many deceived by it.

 

[RickyZ]

The Gifts of the Spirit are a different thing to healing miracles and tongues.
For instance, the gift od miracles, 1 Cor 12: 10, Is "THE WORKING OF MIRACLES".
Healing is, "THE GIFTS OF HEALING". v9
Tongues, "ARE FOR INTERPERTING", v10.
And these gifts are given to some and not others.

But Jesus said EVERY BELIEVER shall do the signs, Mk 16: 17--18.
Everyone can speak in tongues, v17.
Everyone can heal the sick, v18.

If there was someone who had "Say", the gifts of healings, We should let them Minister to the sick.
But if there is no one around with the gifts of healings??. Then thank God any believer can lay hands on the sick, And they shall recover.

I've often wondered if a sick person sought healing, would any believer really say "sorry I only do words of wisdom".

 

[RickyZ]

and how can one test/prove a spirit ?

Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says "Jesus is accursed!" and no one can say "Jesus is Lord" except in the Holy Spirit.
(1Co 12:3)

*******

1 John 4:1-6

English Standard Version (ESV)

Test the Spirits

4 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already. 4 Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. 5 They are from the world; therefore they speak from the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us; whoever is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

---------------

Matthew 7:15-20

English Standard Version (ESV)

A Tree and Its Fruit

15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. 18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.


These are how you test them.

 

[notuptome]

All things are tested by application of the word of God. The men at Berea should come to mind. Acts 17:10-11

Seems this could be an uncomfortable subject for our Pentecostal and charismatic friends..

Who is being deceived by the signs and wonders? Who is it that looks for signs and wonders? To whom did God send signs and wonders to testify of His power and glory?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[RickyZ]

All things are tested by application of the word of God. The men at Berea should come to mind. Acts 17:10-11

Seems this could be an uncomfortable subject for our Pentecostal and charismatic friends..

Who is being deceived by the signs and wonders? Who is it that looks for signs and wonders? To whom did God send signs and wonders to testify of His power and glory?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Acts 17: [SUP]10 [/SUP]As soon as it was night, the believers sent Paul and Silas away to Berea. On arriving there, they went to the Jewish synagogue. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

Excellent reference.

God sent signs and wonders to all of us, praise His power and glory!

 

[crossnote]

2 thessalonians 2 says that day (rapture) will not come until the man of sin is revealed. rapture would be after that. if the 1st century church were burned alive, beheaded, tortured and murdered, and crucified, what makes us think we will be saved from it? how arrogant. nothing in scripture points to a "sneaking in and out" of Jesus. this is new doctrine not believed by the early church. when Jesus returns he's coming with force and with a shout of a trumpet like lightning across the sky and everyone will see him.

2 Thessalonians 2:2-8 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

I see no rapture here. 'That Day' always refers to the Day of tribulation/judgement.

 

[ForthAngel]

2 Thessalonians 2:2-8 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

I see no rapture here. 'That Day' always refers to the Day of tribulation/judgement.

Agreed. I should have put rapture in quotes. The collecting of the body together with Christ will be the very end. Judgement day. No sneaking in and out. Once and for all with a hundred million angels at the blast of a trumpet. Instantly, unexpectedly and with great force.

 

[LEPIDUS]

Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says "Jesus is accursed!" and no one can say "Jesus is Lord" except in the Holy Spirit.
(1Co 12:3)

*******

1 John 4:1-6

English Standard Version (ESV)

Test the Spirits

4 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already. 4 Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. 5 They are from the world; therefore they speak from the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us; whoever is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

---------------

Matthew 7:15-20

English Standard Version (ESV)

A Tree and Its Fruit

15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. 18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.


These are how you test them.

Yes I am familiar with this scripture but the question still remains I mean because it also says in the bible how he will tell some depart from me I never knew you, and how they will say did we not cast out demons in your name..

So to me these people claiming to cast demons out also professed Jesus is the Savior how can one know ?

 

[LEPIDUS]

Acts 17: [SUP]10 [/SUP]As soon as it was night, the believers sent Paul and Silas away to Berea. On arriving there, they went to the Jewish synagogue. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

Excellent reference.

God sent signs and wonders to all of us, praise His power and glory!

I guess I should have kept reading. haha

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

i don't think charismatic miracle scams are satanic signs and wonders...

i think for the most part it is a combination of bad acting and snake oil manipulation...