Sabbath or Sunday which one is for the true followers of Chirst?

[kennethcadwell]

Read Romans 14:5. It sums it up on the Sabbath and how now it is to be observed.

The early church and Jesus observed the Sabbath as being on Saturdays. It was later changed by Constantine to Sunday and he was backed by the Catholic church. They did this as a way to not cause a stumbling block to new converts.

Holding the Sabbath to me by the new testament way is not the same traditional way as the old testament. By the new testament as long as we do every thing on that day, we do it with respect to God and therefore are keeping it holy.

 

[Flamingspirit]

where does the scripture say that the 7th day Sabbath was a shadow?

My question is in regards to the 7th day/weekly Sabbath and not the feast Sabbaths which indeed were shadows. But the Sabbath does not point forward but backwards to creation. The 7th day Sabbath came after creation not before.

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Which sabbath are you referring to? The one you mentioned here never ended. Only that He rested in it. This is the high sabbath in which we were all born on, even the Lord of the sabbath. The one according to the commandment was a release point for man in all his burdens.

 

[Flamingspirit]

So why did Jesus go in on the Sabbath. I do agree that the after the 6000 years will become the 7000th year because a day to the Lord is a 1000 years but when dealing with flesh and blood the Lord set up the commandment of the weekly Sabbath.

Because it was customary of the people. In otherwords one could find most people there at that time.

 

[Billyd]

In fact the Sabbath for strangers/gentiles in chapter 56 of Isaiah is prophetic and finds its fullest fulfillment after the death resurrection and ascension of Jesus.

Isa 56:7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
Isa 56:8 The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.

There is only one weekly Sabbath mentioned in the bible.

Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

God spoke it God wrote it.

God says the 7th day is the Sabbath, Man says its Sunday or any day you like.

Mat_15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

either God is right or man:

Rom_3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar...

I am going to go with God.

There is not one scripture that says the 7th day Sabbath is changed.
There is not one Scripture that says that Sunday is the Sabbath or for that matter any other day other than the 7th.
There is not one scripture that says that rest in Jesus replaces the 7th day Sabbath.

All man made doctrine.

This is a ridiculous argument. The calendar has had so many adjustments, that the Sabbath may be any day of the week. Will observing the Sabbath on the wrong day prevent us from entering the Kingdom of God. No! Only the denial of Christ as you Savior will. I pray that no one will deny Him.

Christians all agree that the Sabbath is on Saturday. It is a day of rest, that is poorly observed by both Christians and Jews. (again, study the Law as it relates to what man can do on the Sabbath) Now the difference. We also celebrate the resurrection of our Lord and Savior on Sunday. This is not an observance of the Sabbath. It is the day that we take to prepare for the next week.

 

[JosephIsrael]

Constantine origin was pagan research it.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

It always astounds me out of all that is in the Bible and Christianity today, that the Sabbath of all things is actually still debateable.

I believe Jesus settles all Sabbath Debates once and for all.

Mark 2:23-28


[SUP]23 [/SUP]And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him?
[SUP]26 [/SUP]How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him?
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

 

[JosephIsrael]

Because it was customary of the people. In otherwords one could find most people there at that time.

Read Luke 13:14-16

 

[JosephIsrael]

It always astounds me out of all that is in the Bible and Christianity today, that the Sabbath of all things is actually still debateable.

I believe Jesus settles all Sabbath Debates once and for all.

Mark 2:23-28


[SUP]23 [/SUP]And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him?
[SUP]26 [/SUP]How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him?
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

So you agree with the law that Jesus gave Moses in Exodus 20:8. Because that is Jesus too, and the Lord does not change his mind.

 

[kennethcadwell]

I did research it, and Constantine when he was converted wanted all his troops that followed him to be converted to Christianity as well. He noticed that his followers did not want to give up some of their traditions like Sunday worship, so he let them keep that tradition as their Sabbath day. He also let them keep other traditions as well to not cause stumbling blocks on their spiritual growth.

Even our Lord Jesus said not to cause stumbling blocks on new converts, and Paul got on to Peter about him trying to force the old traditions on gentiles that were becoming Christians.

Constantine origin was pagan research it.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

So you agree with the law that Jesus gave Moses in Exodus 20:8. Because that is Jesus too, and the Lord does not change his mind.

I agree with what Jesus said;

"The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath."

 

[JosephIsrael]

I did research it, and Constantine when he was converted wanted all his troops that followed him to be converted to Christianity as well. He noticed that his followers did not want to give up some of their traditions like Sunday worship, so he let them keep that tradition as their Sabbath day. He also let them keep other traditions as well to not cause stumbling blocks on their spiritual growth.

Even our Lord Jesus said not to cause stumbling blocks on new converts, and Paul got on to Peter about him trying to force the old traditions on gentiles that were becoming Christians.

Mark 7:7 [SUP] [/SUP]Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

You just gave facts to confirm the truth of this scripture.

Where did Jesus allow the Gentiles to keep their traditions. You are a little confused about the circumcision debate that Paul and Peter had.

 

[chubbena]

Again not what I'm saying. I'm saying going to church on Saturday is no better or worse than going to one in Sunday. When the true sabbath of the commandment is instituded even the animals will rest. All is ran by money. Who will work without a paycheck?

Those meet at home like those met at home whom Paul saluted to in Romans 16.
Paul worked without a paycheck unlike those (mis)quote him receiving one. Those receiving one would not stop the money tree from producing on any day.
Saturday is best for business. Follow the money and one should know why it's spoken against to rest.

 

[chubbena]

Read Romans 14:5. It sums it up on the Sabbath and how now it is to be observed.

The early church and Jesus observed the Sabbath as being on Saturdays. It was later changed by Constantine to Sunday and he was backed by the Catholic church. They did this as a way to not cause a stumbling block to new converts.

Holding the Sabbath to me by the new testament way is not the same traditional way as the old testament. By the new testament as long as we do every thing on that day, we do it with respect to God and therefore are keeping it holy.

And you are saying it's different from the OT? If such is the case they would have charged the Messiah with breaking the Sabbath.

 

[gotime]

This is a ridiculous argument. The calendar has had so many adjustments, that the Sabbath may be any day of the week. Will observing the Sabbath on the wrong day prevent us from entering the Kingdom of God. No! Only the denial of Christ as you Savior will. I pray that no one will deny Him.

Christians all agree that the Sabbath is on Saturday. It is a day of rest, that is poorly observed by both Christians and Jews. (again, study the Law as it relates to what man can do on the Sabbath) Now the difference. We also celebrate the resurrection of our Lord and Savior on Sunday. This is not an observance of the Sabbath. It is the day that we take to prepare for the next week.

I am sorry friend but this is simply not true. I refer to your point:

"This is a ridiculous argument. The calendar has had so many adjustments, that the Sabbath may be any day of the week."

By this I know you have not even tried to see if we do know the day or not. We do know the day very clearly. if you had studied into this you would know that while the calendar has changed the days of the week never have. while the 2nd day has always been followed by the 3rd. but the date changed. so the 2nd may have been the 12th of march and then the 3rd became the 18th of march. my point is that the days of the week have not changed just the date applied to them.

The day has even changed name but the cycle has remained the same. If you really want to know which day is the 7th you need only go to the Jewish nation. They have a history which is recorded in the bible. God told them in exodus 16 to obey the Sabbath.

Does God know which day it was? Yes.

The Jewish nation followed that because it was in grained in them for 40 years in the desert by the falling of manna.

The bible also tells us which day it is,

Luk 23:54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.
Luk 23:55 And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.
Luk 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
Luk 24:1 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.
Luk 24:2 And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre.


Luke tells us what Day the Sabbath is everyone knows that Jesus rose on the Sunday. this is where Christians get their tradition of Sunday Sabbath from. Funny how many claim the knowledge of the day He rose but seem ignorant of the day he rested just before. which like says was the Sabbath according to the commandment.

Now lets apply a little logic, what day comes before Sunday?

Answer: what we call Saturday. see it was not that hard.

You know this as your post suggests in the second paragraph so why does your first paragraph say what it does. we do know very clearly which day is the 7th.

It is poorly observed but not by all. most do however not observe it at all. By the law is the knowledge of sin. so that fact that you know this does not bode well for you now does it.

 

[kennethcadwell]

No I am not confused about that debate. But you have to separate the tradition and law do to the changes that were made between the old testament ( old covenant ) and the new testament ( new covenant ). This is an area some Christians don't like to accept, that there was changes made. And from our Lord Jesus to the writings from Paul, Peter, James, and John you can read those changes.

That and th

Mark 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

You just gave facts to confirm the truth of this scripture.

Where did Jesus allow the Gentiles to keep their traditions. You are a little confused about the circumcision debate that Paul and Peter had.

 

[chubbena]

I agree with what Jesus said;

"The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath."

The Jesus I believe happened to be the Word of God who spoke back then. If only one looks from this perspective...

 

[kennethcadwell]

You forgot they wanted to, but He rebutted them.

And you are saying it's different from the OT? If such is the case they would have charged the Messiah with breaking the Sabbath.

 

[Bookends]

So you agree with the law that Jesus gave Moses in Exodus 20:8. Because that is Jesus too, and the Lord does not change his mind.

Exodus 32: 14 So the Lord changed His mind about the harm which He said He would do to His people.

 

[chubbena]

You forgot they wanted to, but He rebutted them.

Don't you think they could have use this as the reason to crucify Him at the trial?
On the other hand we may read how He rebutted them to know how the Sabbath is to be observed. After all He's the author of the law.

It does not mean I did not agree with you but we all have to agree with Him.

 

[RedTent]

I did research it, and Constantine when he was converted wanted all his troops that followed him to be converted to Christianity as well. He noticed that his followers did not want to give up some of their traditions like Sunday worship, so he let them keep that tradition as their Sabbath day. He also let them keep other traditions as well to not cause stumbling blocks on their spiritual growth.

Even our Lord Jesus said not to cause stumbling blocks on new converts, and Paul got on to Peter about him trying to force the old traditions on gentiles that were becoming Christians.

Constantine was a complicated man, but as a man who murdered his wife, I don't think he was really Christian. He was a smart Emperor who knew how to lead his people. I've read lots of the letters he wrote, and what writing he did that is preserved for us and he would want to get the cooperation of the Romans so they would agree to one religion and he chose Christianity as long as it had nothing to do with anything Jewish, but he didn't think about stumbling blocks.

The whole idea started soon after the last disciple died, and it was to think of Christ as far from His Father as possible. They worshipped on Sunday, they had a spring festival and a winter one, so they would just Christianize those and change as little as possible.

So we say Sabbath isn't for Christians, although at creation, the seventh day was set aside by God and blessed by God.

We say we should follow 1st century Christians rather than the bible.

We say what God tells us about Himself in the OT is only for Israel, and we aren't grafted in but separate.

We say because God is with us every day, there should not be a special day.

We say Saturday is only of the old (God is old?) and we are new in Christ.

We say it is of the shadow, and the shadow has nothing to do with what it is a shadow of!!

We say Sabbath has to do with a building (brand new idea not scripture) so we should not have Sabbath.

None of this is good thinking, and none of it is following scripture.