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S
So a homosexual couple it's going to the church, that's a BIG problem. One only? You are doing it wrong! All the sinners should be in the church, actually the church it's full of them, but most aren't aware, I mean, all the sinners that are out of the church should be invited to join.
Should people stop worrying about how bad display of sin it's going to affect those who already go to the church and starting thinking how will change the "sinners" to be able to meet other Christians and have a moment of peace listening God's preach?
Maybe, you can just pray for them so they find the truth, maybe they are praying too for finding acceptance, love, support, happiness...
Be happy for them that they are there, celebrate that they may get closer to God. You can be the one that make the difference, the one that embrace them and make their faith to grow, the one that holds their hand and tell them what the love of God is about.
Luke 19:1-10
But I'm a "worldly"... Should you take an advice from me? I suggest not.
Should people stop worrying about how bad display of sin it's going to affect those who already go to the church and starting thinking how will change the "sinners" to be able to meet other Christians and have a moment of peace listening God's preach?
Maybe, you can just pray for them so they find the truth, maybe they are praying too for finding acceptance, love, support, happiness...
Be happy for them that they are there, celebrate that they may get closer to God. You can be the one that make the difference, the one that embrace them and make their faith to grow, the one that holds their hand and tell them what the love of God is about.
Luke 19:1-10
But I'm a "worldly"... Should you take an advice from me? I suggest not.
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U
Actually, church is made for Christians, not the unsaved. Church is where we fellowship, grow, learn and are equipped to go out into the world to help guide others to salvation. We are to go into the world, not bring the world into us. If we invite the world to church, when do we ever get a time of rest, learning and fellowship? It makes it harder for people to grow because messages are always fluff for new or non-believers.
Treat it like fornicators in I Corinthians 5.
If they are both unbelievers... seekers, then let them come to classes, but not take communion. If they claim to be brethren, then if they are in sin, the church puts away the evil from among them. But this needs to be done in a Biblical way, and consistently. It is wrong to turn a blind eye to teens fornicating and adulterous remarriage relationships, but single out homosexuals.
Another issue is if two guys are going to church, are you going to accuse them of sodomy? If they say they are gay, that's one thing. But if they both speak with a lisp, does that prove what they do?
Another issue is that the church needs to be clear about is that this is about specific sins. If they are living in sexual sin, then that is the issue addressed, not some kind of gay identity. Not orientation.
I think it's wise to follow something along the lines of Matthew 18. It's not a sin against another individual in the church beside them. You can also look at Galatians 6:1. I believe they need to be confronted and confronted with witnesses.
Then, if they won't repent, then they should be brought before the assembly. In I Corinthians 5, the man was to be delivered over to Satan when the church was assembled. Jesus said of the Matthew 18 situation to take it before the church-- the assembly, the congregation. Not just the pastors or elders.
So I think you should talk to the pastors of the church about this.
If they are both unbelievers... seekers, then let them come to classes, but not take communion. If they claim to be brethren, then if they are in sin, the church puts away the evil from among them. But this needs to be done in a Biblical way, and consistently. It is wrong to turn a blind eye to teens fornicating and adulterous remarriage relationships, but single out homosexuals.
Another issue is if two guys are going to church, are you going to accuse them of sodomy? If they say they are gay, that's one thing. But if they both speak with a lisp, does that prove what they do?
Another issue is that the church needs to be clear about is that this is about specific sins. If they are living in sexual sin, then that is the issue addressed, not some kind of gay identity. Not orientation.
I think it's wise to follow something along the lines of Matthew 18. It's not a sin against another individual in the church beside them. You can also look at Galatians 6:1. I believe they need to be confronted and confronted with witnesses.
Then, if they won't repent, then they should be brought before the assembly. In I Corinthians 5, the man was to be delivered over to Satan when the church was assembled. Jesus said of the Matthew 18 situation to take it before the church-- the assembly, the congregation. Not just the pastors or elders.
So I think you should talk to the pastors of the church about this.
My understanding is that church is a hospital for sinners - so why would we be surprised if homosexuals were attending church? There are all kinds of sinners at church, gossipers, liars, thieves, murderers, adulterers, and many more.... all you have to do is look at the person next to you. Yep their a sinner too and then look in the mirror you got it - You are a sinner too.
We all have fallen short of God's glory so instead of worrying about the next guy - gay or not how about we get our own hearts right with God and love the person that sits next to us in the pew - after all each one of us has to work out our salvation with God it is an individual task that each one of us has to take up on a daily basis.
Mean while back to sharing the gospel with those who don't know Jesus around us - who have you shared with today?
We all have fallen short of God's glory so instead of worrying about the next guy - gay or not how about we get our own hearts right with God and love the person that sits next to us in the pew - after all each one of us has to work out our salvation with God it is an individual task that each one of us has to take up on a daily basis.
Mean while back to sharing the gospel with those who don't know Jesus around us - who have you shared with today?
J
First off I would like to thank everyone who has replied, I asked a question and you generously took you time to answer, for that I thank you.
That said, I feel led to address an issue that has been laid on my heart by the responses to this post. The overwhelming verdict from many is to love, just love, love is all you need. Don't judge someone living in blatant sin only look at the sin in yourself. Well I think maybe some (not all) of you need to examine yourselves; have you really become that lukewarm?
I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent.
Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me Revelation 3:15-20
For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions 2 Timothy 4:3
Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? 2 Corinthians 6:14
I am trying to point everyone I come across to The Living God, but that requires people need to realize they need to be saved. How can they realize this if y'all are playing pattycake with their sins because it makes you uncomfortable to label sin a sin versus letting people off the hook with "we are all sinners" Is it possible that you don't want to confront others in their sin because you are scared if you do others will confront you in yours?
Love is not just take care of your own business and extend grace and gentleness to obvious sin. Love is taking a stand against the sickness and decaying of sin and getting treatment to those who may not know they need it. It can be that it is telling people we don't accept their blatant sin in our midst and to repent if fellowship is desired. I bet if I changed the story to a husband bringing his mistress behind his wife's back and sitting in church cuddling with her the responses would have been different. Why, because that sin is not politically correct.
Also, many of you need to examine your hearts on your ability to rake a sister in Christ across the coals while patting yourselves on the back thinking you are so loving for standing up for the helpless homosexual couple.
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another. John 13:34&35
Let love be genuine. Abhor what is evil; hold fast to what is good. Roman 12:9
So yes, I am calling some of you out on what you posted. Examine yourselves, stop allowing Satan to use you to pummel believers and love sinners, whose work are you trying to accomplish? Stop being so lazy and lukewarm about what is happening in our churches! Realize we are in a war and Satan is storming the gates of our churches! Hold fast in the assault, quit surrendering without so much as a fight!
Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. Resist him, standing firm in the faith, because you know that the family of believers throughout the world is undergoing the same kind of sufferings. 1 Peter 5:8-9
That said, I feel led to address an issue that has been laid on my heart by the responses to this post. The overwhelming verdict from many is to love, just love, love is all you need. Don't judge someone living in blatant sin only look at the sin in yourself. Well I think maybe some (not all) of you need to examine yourselves; have you really become that lukewarm?
I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent.
Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me Revelation 3:15-20
For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions 2 Timothy 4:3
Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? 2 Corinthians 6:14
I am trying to point everyone I come across to The Living God, but that requires people need to realize they need to be saved. How can they realize this if y'all are playing pattycake with their sins because it makes you uncomfortable to label sin a sin versus letting people off the hook with "we are all sinners" Is it possible that you don't want to confront others in their sin because you are scared if you do others will confront you in yours?
Love is not just take care of your own business and extend grace and gentleness to obvious sin. Love is taking a stand against the sickness and decaying of sin and getting treatment to those who may not know they need it. It can be that it is telling people we don't accept their blatant sin in our midst and to repent if fellowship is desired. I bet if I changed the story to a husband bringing his mistress behind his wife's back and sitting in church cuddling with her the responses would have been different. Why, because that sin is not politically correct.
Also, many of you need to examine your hearts on your ability to rake a sister in Christ across the coals while patting yourselves on the back thinking you are so loving for standing up for the helpless homosexual couple.
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another. John 13:34&35
Let love be genuine. Abhor what is evil; hold fast to what is good. Roman 12:9
So yes, I am calling some of you out on what you posted. Examine yourselves, stop allowing Satan to use you to pummel believers and love sinners, whose work are you trying to accomplish? Stop being so lazy and lukewarm about what is happening in our churches! Realize we are in a war and Satan is storming the gates of our churches! Hold fast in the assault, quit surrendering without so much as a fight!
Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. Resist him, standing firm in the faith, because you know that the family of believers throughout the world is undergoing the same kind of sufferings. 1 Peter 5:8-9
A
Years ago I went to a church where two of the elementary school teachers had a lesbian adulterous relationship with each other behind their husband's backs. When their husbands finally learned of it, they appealed to their wives but the wives simply divorced their husbands. Of course, they got good lawyers and maximized their financial awards and child support to the fullest extent they possibly could.
They continued going to the church together as a lesbian "couple" and sought leadership positions in the church as well. After all, they are educated school teachers right?
Though the pastor and board of elders did not allow them leadership roles, they didn't excommunicate them either. So the husbands left the church and a lot of moral people did as well including myself.
These two were in FULL REBELLION against God's morality and holiness. Your answer is embrace them with God's agape love and put them in leadership right?
Let's see what Paul the apostle has to say:
" It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles... You have become arrogant and have not mourned instead, so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst.
For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present. In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough? Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed. Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world. But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the wicked man [or woman] from among yourselves. 1 Corinthians 5.
Which part do you find confusing?
They continued going to the church together as a lesbian "couple" and sought leadership positions in the church as well. After all, they are educated school teachers right?
Though the pastor and board of elders did not allow them leadership roles, they didn't excommunicate them either. So the husbands left the church and a lot of moral people did as well including myself.
These two were in FULL REBELLION against God's morality and holiness. Your answer is embrace them with God's agape love and put them in leadership right?
Let's see what Paul the apostle has to say:
" It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles... You have become arrogant and have not mourned instead, so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst.
For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present. In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough? Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed. Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world. But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the wicked man [or woman] from among yourselves. 1 Corinthians 5.
Which part do you find confusing?
So a homosexual couple it's going to the church, that's a BIG problem. One only? You are doing it wrong! All the sinners should be in the church, actually the church it's full of them, but most aren't aware, I mean, all the sinners that are out of the church should be invited to join.
Should people stop worrying about how bad display of sin it's going to affect those who already go to the church and starting thinking how will change the "sinners" to be able to meet other Christians and have a moment of peace listening God's preach?
Maybe, you can just pray for them so they find the truth, maybe they are praying too for finding acceptance, love, support, happiness...
Be happy for them that they are there, celebrate that they may get closer to God. You can be the one that make the difference, the one that embrace them and make their faith to grow, the one that holds their hand and tell them what the love of God is about.
Luke 19:1-10
But I'm a "worldly"... Should you take an advice from me? I suggest not.
Should people stop worrying about how bad display of sin it's going to affect those who already go to the church and starting thinking how will change the "sinners" to be able to meet other Christians and have a moment of peace listening God's preach?
Maybe, you can just pray for them so they find the truth, maybe they are praying too for finding acceptance, love, support, happiness...
Be happy for them that they are there, celebrate that they may get closer to God. You can be the one that make the difference, the one that embrace them and make their faith to grow, the one that holds their hand and tell them what the love of God is about.
Luke 19:1-10
But I'm a "worldly"... Should you take an advice from me? I suggest not.
J
You are right, Jesus is love because God is love (1 John 4:8) I love Charles Stanley's take "God's power is infinite and love is His greatest weapon" But ignoring sin and only working on yourself is not love, it is selfish. Allowing people in open rebellion to God to negatively influence young or new believers is not love it is careless. My sister, don't chill out, put on your armor, we are at war.
Finally, be strengthened by the Lord and by His vast strength. Put on the full armor of God so that you can stand against the tactics of the Devil. For our battle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the world powers of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavens. This is why you must take up the full armor of God, so that you may be able to resist in the evil day, and having prepared everything, to take your stand.
Stand, therefore,with truth like a belt around your waist,
righteousness like armor on your chest,
and your feet sandaled with readiness
for the gospel of peace.
In every situation take the shield of faith,
and with it you will be able to extinguish
all the flaming arrows of the evil one.
Take the helmet of salvation,
and the sword of the Spirit,
which is God’s word. Ephesian 6: 10-18
Finally, be strengthened by the Lord and by His vast strength. Put on the full armor of God so that you can stand against the tactics of the Devil. For our battle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the world powers of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavens. This is why you must take up the full armor of God, so that you may be able to resist in the evil day, and having prepared everything, to take your stand.
Stand, therefore,with truth like a belt around your waist,
righteousness like armor on your chest,
and your feet sandaled with readiness
for the gospel of peace.
In every situation take the shield of faith,
and with it you will be able to extinguish
all the flaming arrows of the evil one.
Take the helmet of salvation,
and the sword of the Spirit,
which is God’s word. Ephesian 6: 10-18
I just think we need to be careful in pointing out one sin above another - Sin is Sin no matter what the offense and all sin is offensive to God. Eating a piece of fruit from the wrong tree cost Jesus His life for us. Jesus said to the group who brought Him a prostitute to judge - Let him who is without sin cast the first stone. So I ask who among us would like to throw the stone at this gay couple in church?