It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

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Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
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and having been made perfect, he became unto all them that obey him the author of eternal salvation;

[SUP]8 [/SUP]Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Now this man is using deceit to support a doctrine of man...we know that the only essential command to obey here is
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved. Anyone with half a brain will know that to obey him means not just one command but all now he made it easy for us by saying all is fulfilled in one, LOVE,if you believe someone why is it so hard to obey them or why would you want to obey only some of what they say or tells you to do.Just like in vs 8 we have to learn obedience to be conformed to his image
Point 1: As salvation is offered over and over again in the Word of God on one condition only, namely,
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved;
and since "Believe" is a command, it follows that there is but one command to obey for salvation: Namely believe in or trust the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior.

Point 2: Scripture is very clear by by grace we are saved through faith . . . not of works lest anyone should boast.

Point 3: The salvation one gets for this believing is an eternal salvation, not a mere chance at it or a 15 minute version.

Point 4: As many as are trying to be saved by the law are under the curse that you are cursed if you don't do it all.

Point 5: You cut yourself off from grace and the Lord Jesus as a Savior by trying to be justified by works.

Point 6: The 2 biggest commands are indeed love. And if you are going to be judged for whether or not you loved your neighbor as yourself and loved God with all your might, you are going straight to the Lake of Fire for your failure to do it.

He came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Indeed,
he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

The command is to obey is, Believe! To try to get justified by obeying the commandments in general is to disobey Him. For His word says "not by works."

Now Dear NewB:

What are you going to do about your disobedience? Will you pretend that your are a righteous obeyer? Or will you cry out, God be merciful to me a sinner? Is it that you don't want to trust Him as your Savior?
 
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Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
Tell you what Atwood, I will stop arguing if you stop using that ridiculous statement "trust in Jesus". Who else am I supposed to trust in, you? I Happen to think that is a lazy mans religion, and I do not want any part of it.
If you think you can earn salvation by your own works, I am very sorry to hear you reject the free gift of eternal life. It is an awful delusional pride which leads anyone to think that he can work his way. There is none who does good, no not one.

The gospel is indeed an offense to the pride of man who thinks he should be validated instead of saved.

The Greek verb is pisteuō. I translate "trust" to distinguish this type of faith from the faith which is in facts, I believe this doctrine or I believe that Jesus is the Son of God -- the type of faith that demons have who believe that God is one, convinced of the facts, but not depending on Him for anything.

Faith is the only essential on man's part for salvation; to trust in the Savior. The data on faith/believe for salvation is too long for one post here. So I put only some data:

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
1 John 5:10-13
Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Ephesians 1:13
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
John 6:40
For this is the will of my Father, that every one that beholdeth the Son, and believeth on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
joy,
1 Peter 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
John 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

JOHN 20:30
Many other signs therefore did Jesus in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 but these are written, that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye may have life in his name.

Act 13:48
And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief: 16 howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me as chief might Jesus Christ show forth all his longsuffering, for an ensample of them that should thereafter believe on him unto eternal life.
1 Tim 1:15-17
Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief: howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me as chief might Jesus Christ show forth all his longsuffering, for an ensample of them that should thereafter believe on him unto eternal life.

1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you, that ye may know that ye have eternal life, even unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God.
Eph 1:10ff
to sum up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth; in him, I say in whom also we were made a heritage, having been foreordained according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his will; 12 to the end that we should be unto the praise of his glory, we who had before hoped in Christ: 13 in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth, the gospel of your salvation,— in whom, having also believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 which is an earnest of our inheritance, unto the redemption of God’s own possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Luke 8:11-12
Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 And those by the way side are they that have heard; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word from their heart, that they may not believe and be saved.
Acts 16:31
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, thou and thy house.
1 Cor 1:21
it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save them that believe.
Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh shall be justified.

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up; that whosoever believeth may in him have eternal life.

John 3:14-18

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life. 1For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him. 1He that believeth on him is not judged: he that believeth not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only Son of God.
John 5:24
2Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life.
John 6:47
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth hath eternal life.

John 10:27
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

1 John 5:10-12
He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in him: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he hath not believed in the witness that God hath borne concerning his Son. And the witness is this, that God gave unto us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath the life; he that hath not the Son of God hath not the life.
Ps 37:5-6
Commit thy way unto Jehovah;
Trust also in him, and he will bring it to pass.
And he will make thy righteousness to go forth as the light,
And thy justice as the noonday.


Acts 15:8

And God, who knoweth the heart, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us; and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

Acts 26:18b

that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in me.

Rom 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.

Rom 3:21-30

But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; 24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God; 26 for the showing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus. 27 Where then is the glorying? It is excluded. By what manner of law? of works? Nay: but by a law of faith. 28 We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yea, of Gentiles also: 30 if so be that God is one, and he shall justify the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through faith.

Rom 4:1ff

:1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, hath found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not toward God. 3 For what saith the scripture? And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness. 6 Even as David also pronounceth blessing upon the man, unto whom God reckoneth righteousness apart from works, 7 saying,
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin.

9 Is this blessing then pronounced upon the circumcision, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say, To Abraham his faith was reckoned for righteousness. 10 How then was it reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision: 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might be reckoned unto them; 12 and the father of circumcision to them who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham which he had in uncircumcision. 13 For not through the law was the promise to Abraham or to his seed that he should be heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if they that are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise is made of none effect: 15 for the law worketh wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there transgression. 16 For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (as it is written, A father of many nations have I made thee) before him whom he believed, even God, who giveth life to the dead, and calleth the things that are not, as though they were. 18 Who in hope believed against hope, to the end that he might become a father of many nations, according to that which had been spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And without being weakened in faith he considered his own body now as good as dead (he being about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb; 20 yet, looking unto the promise of God, he wavered not through unbelief, but waxed strong through faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully assured that what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 Wherefore also it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.

Rom 5:1-2
Being therefore justified by faith, let us have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; through whom also we have had our access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; and let us boast in hope of the glory of God.
Rom 9:30:
What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, who followed not after righteousness, attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith: but Israel, following after a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by works. They stumbled at the stone of stumbling; even as it is written,
Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence:
And he that believeth on him shall not be put to shame.

Rom 10:4ff

For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to every one that believeth. For Moses writeth that the man that doeth the righteousness which is of the law shall live thereby. But the righteousness which is of faith saith thus, Say not in thy heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down:) or, Who shall descend into the abyss? (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.


Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 3:

This only would I learn from you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now perfected in the flesh? 4 Did ye suffer so many things in vain? if it be indeed in vain. 5 He therefore that supplieth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. 7 Know therefore that they that are of faith, the same are sons of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all the nations be blessed. 9 So then they that are of faith are blessed with the faithful Abraham. 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one who continueth not in all things that are written in the book of the law, to do them. 11 Now that no man is justified by the law before God, is evident: for, The righteous shall live by faith; 12 and the law is not of faith; but, He that doeth them shall live in them. 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 that upon the Gentiles might come the blessing of Abraham in Christ Jesus; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Gal 3:22ff

But the scripture shut up all things under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept in ward under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. So that the law is become our tutor to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith is come, we are no longer under a tutor. For ye are all sons of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus.

Gal 5:5-6

For we through the Spirit by faith wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith working through love.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
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What you are implying is false, and you have not given any scripture to prove it. You cannot just speak things into existence. How can anyone live in such a state of delusion?
No, not false. If It works, how is it false. The Pharisees accused Jesus of having a devil in Him, because He didn't believe as they did nor did He follow their traditions. You are doing the same with me sir, 'cause I don't believe as you do. You on the other hand, don't know what is available to you as a child of God, nor do you know your rights in Christ Jesus.

I can give you many scripture verses, but I don't have much confidence in your receiving it.
I'll give you a few for now.
Mat 17:20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
Isa 57:19 I create the fruit of the lips; Peace, peace to him that is far off, and to him that is near, saith the LORD; and I will heal him.
Mar 11:23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.
Mat 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
Mat 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
Mat 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things [because of what came out of his mouth]: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Mat 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
(ESV) Bless the LORD, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, obeying the voice of his word [or those who speak forth God's word]!
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
2Co 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;
Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession [or confession] of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)
Joe 3:10 Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong.
Pro 13:2 A man shall eat good by the fruit of his mouth: but the soul of the transgressors shall eat violence.
Pro 13:3 He that keepeth his mouth keepeth his life: but he that openeth wide his lips shall have destruction.
And the list goes on and on.
You obviously don't believe what is written, because you are looking too much in the natural. The word of God clearly says you shall have what you say if you have the faith for it. And if you don't have the faith for it, then you need to confess it till you do. For faith comes by hearing, and if necessary, over and over again, until you get it down in your heart. Nothing will happen until you do.
What about when you came to know Christ? What did you have to do? You believed then confessed/spoke what you believed, and it came to pass. You became a Christian because God fulfilled His word when you spoke what you believed. Therefore, you spoke it into existence. That is partly how faith works. So how can you even say that I am delusional, when you did the very same thing to become a child of the King, which you said is not scriptural?
This is a basic law of the kingdom of God. The same principal that works for salvation, works for your healing. It's the same kind of faith, and it works the same way as it did for salvation. You just have to have more faith for it.

The redemption from sickness waits until the glorified body. You utter non-Biblical delusion.
Why are you waiting for your glorified body? You sir, do not know the covenant that God made for us, through the work of the cross of Jesus. Salvation is only the beginning. We don't have to wait for our glorified bodies, we can live free from sickness and disease in this body, in this world. Just like my family and I do. If I am delusional, then why is it working for my family and I?
Joh 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
Joh 9:32 Since the world began was it not heard that any man opened the eyes of one that was born blind.
Joh 9:33 If this man were not of God, he could do nothing.
If what I was saying was not of God, we could do nothing, and nothing would work for us. God will not support or cause what we ask for or command to be done, to manifest in the natural, if it is a lie. But since God has been upholding His word to those who believe, like for my family and I, why do you call it a lie of the devil? It is either God or the devil that is causing our prayers and words to manifest in the natural. I'm just letting you know that I read it in the bible, so I believe it is God who is creating the fruit of my lips.

Yes, Paul asked 3 times & got the answer that God's grace was sufficient for him. The thorn in the flesh did not go away; it was the price Paul paid for being taken to the 3rd Heaven -- lest he become proud.
What is the power or strength of God? Isn't it His word? So if you don't use the word of God against your infirmities, then how is God's grace sufficient for you? Like I said before, getting pounded over the head until you die, is not, I repeat, 'not' the grace of God, nor is His strength made perfect, because you did absolutely nothing with it.

You will get sick if you go on living. Your body will decay. You will be a weak old man some day if you live on. You will find you can't play ball as you used to. You operate under delusion, & we know whose stock in trade that is.
'No', to the third power!!! I will not only remain health, but it is impossible for me or my family to get sick anymore if we walk uprightly before God, and stand on His word/promises.
If you want to be sick, more power to you, you WILL get sick... guaranteed!!!
Unlike my wife and I, you will get sick, weak, grow old, and your body will start to decay or break down, because you do not believe all things are possible with God to them that believe.
Not only that, but because you spoke what you believe, of which you say I am delusional for believing, you are putting curses on yourself, and it is going to happen to you. But as for me and my house, it will not happen that way, because I choose life and blessing, as I watch what I believe and what I say with my mouth.
Pro 18:20 A man's belly shall be satisfied with the fruit of his mouth; and with the increase of his lips shall he be filled.
Pro 18:21 Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.
On my wife's side of the family, two of her relatives died above the age of 120 years, never having a sick day in their life. They were always in prayer like my wife is. They each called their family members in and told them they were going to be with the lord on such a day and at a certain time, and when they saw the lord they went home with a big smile on their faces. The actual account is much longer than that.
I was raised differently, so I am relatively new to this. I was taught in my growing years as you believe now. I also thought as you do. It wasn't until God showed me differently in His word, that I changed what I believe.
 
A

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Good post know1, just remember you're dealing with someone who has brainwashed himself and the only thing you'll constantly hear is "trust in Jesus", "trust in Jesus"
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
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Good post know1, just remember you're dealing with someone who has brainwashed himself and the only thing you'll constantly hear is "trust in Jesus", "trust in Jesus"
Thank you sir. I appreciate the comment.
I understand most have been taught what they believe by some church or pastor, but if doctrines don't line up with the word of God or make sense, why not change what you believe? Or if so and so is getting their prayers answered and I'm not, then I would want to know what they are doing that I am not, so I could get my prayers answered and possibly help others. I would rather find out what really is the truth, than to hold onto what might be a lie. I just happen to KNOW that I am right. There is too much scriptural evidence in favor of what we believe, to prove otherwise.
 

konroh

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Sep 17, 2013
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Justification is by faith.

Sanctification is by faith working through love.

Fairly simple.
 
Mar 28, 2014
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dear brother atwood I understand your view even as you explained however your reasoning is not scripture.




Point 1: As salvation is offered over and over again in the Word of God on one condition only, namely,
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved;
and since "Believe" is a command, it follows that there is but one command to obey for salvation: Namely believe in or trust the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior.

[SUP]17 [/SUP]Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
[SUP]18 [/SUP]When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And some of them were men of Cyprus and Cyrene, which, when they were come to Antioch, spake unto the Grecians, preaching the Lord Jesus.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And the hand of the Lord was with them: and a great number believed, and turned unto the Lord.
[SUP]
acts 10

45 [/SUP]And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

[SUP]46 [/SUP]For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

[SUP]47 [/SUP]Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

[SUP]48 [/SUP]And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.


[h=3]Acts 2:37-39[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]37 [/SUP]Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

[SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Point 2: Scripture is very clear by by grace we are saved through faith . . . not of works lest anyone should boast.

James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?


  • James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Point 3: The salvation one gets for this believing is an eternal salvation, not a mere chance at it or a 15 minute version.

Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;


Genesis 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws


Point 4: As many as are trying to be saved by the law are under the curse that you are cursed if you don't do it all.
If you think anyone is trying to be saved by the law it is probably because you put them there.
Point 5: You cut yourself off from grace and the Lord Jesus as a Savior by trying to be justified by works.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
James 2:23-25
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

[SUP]24 [/SUP]Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

[SUP]25 [/SUP]Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?




Point 6:
The 2 biggest commands are indeed love.
And if you are going to be judged for whether or not you loved your neighbor as yourself and loved God with all your might, you are going straight to the Lake of Fire for your failure to do it.

are you exempt from judgement?
[h=3]James 2:12-13[/h]New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, [SUP]13 [/SUP]because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment.


1 Peter 1:17
And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

Revelation 20:11-13
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.


[SUP]12 [/SUP]And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.


John 12:48
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.



John 14:14-16
[SUP]14 [/SUP]If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

[SUP]15 [/SUP]If ye love me, keep my commandments.

[SUP]16 [/SUP]And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;


He came not to call the righteous, but sinners
to repentance.

Acts 3
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

[SUP]20 [/SUP]And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

[SUP]23 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Then why do you not obey all his commands
The command is to obey is, Believe! To try to get justified by obeying the commandments in general is to disobey Him. For His word says "not by works."
  • John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

Now Dear NewB:

What are you going to do about your disobedience? Will you pretend that your are a righteous obeyer? Or will you cry out, God be merciful to me a sinner? Is it that you don't want to trust Him as your Savior?
These word are not mine brother...now you will go to find any scripture verse which you can twist to suit your doctrine. But you are not fighting against me it is God's word you are wrestling with. Notice how little of my own words I use...now go, fight against God's word or embrace them it is your choice but you have been warned.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
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Well, even if we can walk away from our salvation, it appears none of us can walk away from this thread!
 
A

Alligator

Guest
If you think you can earn salvation by your own works, I am very sorry to hear you reject the free gift of eternal life. It is an awful delusional pride which leads anyone to think that he can work his way. There is none who does good, no not one.

The gospel is indeed an offense to the pride of man who thinks he should be validated instead of saved.

The Greek verb is pisteuō. I translate "trust" to distinguish this type of faith from the faith which is in facts, I believe this doctrine or I believe that Jesus is the Son of God -- the type of faith that demons have who believe that God is one, convinced of the facts, but not depending on Him for anything.

Faith is the only essential on man's part for salvation; to trust in the Savior. The data on faith/believe for salvation is too long for one post here. So I put only some data:

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
1 John 5:10-13
Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Ephesians 1:13
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
John 6:40
For this is the will of my Father, that every one that beholdeth the Son, and believeth on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
joy,
1 Peter 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
John 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

JOHN 20:30
Many other signs therefore did Jesus in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 but these are written, that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye may have life in his name.

Act 13:48
And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief: 16 howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me as chief might Jesus Christ show forth all his longsuffering, for an ensample of them that should thereafter believe on him unto eternal life.
1 Tim 1:15-17
Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief: howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me as chief might Jesus Christ show forth all his longsuffering, for an ensample of them that should thereafter believe on him unto eternal life.

1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you, that ye may know that ye have eternal life, even unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God.
Eph 1:10ff
to sum up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth; in him, I say in whom also we were made a heritage, having been foreordained according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his will; 12 to the end that we should be unto the praise of his glory, we who had before hoped in Christ: 13 in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth, the gospel of your salvation,— in whom, having also believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 which is an earnest of our inheritance, unto the redemption of God’s own possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Luke 8:11-12
Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 And those by the way side are they that have heard; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word from their heart, that they may not believe and be saved.
Acts 16:31
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, thou and thy house.
1 Cor 1:21
it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save them that believe.
Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh shall be justified.

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up; that whosoever believeth may in him have eternal life.

John 3:14-18

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life. 1For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him. 1He that believeth on him is not judged: he that believeth not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only Son of God.
John 5:24
2Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life.
John 6:47
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth hath eternal life.

John 10:27
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

1 John 5:10-12
He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in him: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he hath not believed in the witness that God hath borne concerning his Son. And the witness is this, that God gave unto us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath the life; he that hath not the Son of God hath not the life.
Ps 37:5-6
Commit thy way unto Jehovah;
Trust also in him, and he will bring it to pass.
And he will make thy righteousness to go forth as the light,
And thy justice as the noonday.


Acts 15:8

And God, who knoweth the heart, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us; and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

Acts 26:18b

that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in me.

Rom 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.

Rom 3:21-30

But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; 24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God; 26 for the showing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus. 27 Where then is the glorying? It is excluded. By what manner of law? of works? Nay: but by a law of faith. 28 We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yea, of Gentiles also: 30 if so be that God is one, and he shall justify the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through faith.

Rom 4:1ff

:1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, hath found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not toward God. 3 For what saith the scripture? And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness. 6 Even as David also pronounceth blessing upon the man, unto whom God reckoneth righteousness apart from works, 7 saying,
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin.

9 Is this blessing then pronounced upon the circumcision, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say, To Abraham his faith was reckoned for righteousness. 10 How then was it reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision: 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might be reckoned unto them; 12 and the father of circumcision to them who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham which he had in uncircumcision. 13 For not through the law was the promise to Abraham or to his seed that he should be heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if they that are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise is made of none effect: 15 for the law worketh wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there transgression. 16 For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (as it is written, A father of many nations have I made thee) before him whom he believed, even God, who giveth life to the dead, and calleth the things that are not, as though they were. 18 Who in hope believed against hope, to the end that he might become a father of many nations, according to that which had been spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And without being weakened in faith he considered his own body now as good as dead (he being about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb; 20 yet, looking unto the promise of God, he wavered not through unbelief, but waxed strong through faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully assured that what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 Wherefore also it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.

Rom 5:1-2
Being therefore justified by faith, let us have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; through whom also we have had our access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; and let us boast in hope of the glory of God.
Rom 9:30:
What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, who followed not after righteousness, attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith: but Israel, following after a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by works. They stumbled at the stone of stumbling; even as it is written,
Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence:
And he that believeth on him shall not be put to shame.

Rom 10:4ff

For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to every one that believeth. For Moses writeth that the man that doeth the righteousness which is of the law shall live thereby. But the righteousness which is of faith saith thus, Say not in thy heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down:) or, Who shall descend into the abyss? (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.


Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 3:

This only would I learn from you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now perfected in the flesh? 4 Did ye suffer so many things in vain? if it be indeed in vain. 5 He therefore that supplieth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. 7 Know therefore that they that are of faith, the same are sons of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all the nations be blessed. 9 So then they that are of faith are blessed with the faithful Abraham. 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one who continueth not in all things that are written in the book of the law, to do them. 11 Now that no man is justified by the law before God, is evident: for, The righteous shall live by faith; 12 and the law is not of faith; but, He that doeth them shall live in them. 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 that upon the Gentiles might come the blessing of Abraham in Christ Jesus; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Gal 3:22ff

But the scripture shut up all things under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept in ward under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. So that the law is become our tutor to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith is come, we are no longer under a tutor. For ye are all sons of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus.

Gal 5:5-6

For we through the Spirit by faith wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith working through love.
you did a great job, Atwood, of putting words in my mouth. I challenge you to find one statement I made this entire time that implies we can earn our salvation. Only a fool would believe that. I suppose you have to accuse other people in order to make yourself look better. You can list all the Scriptures you want, but what good does it do if you constantly misinterpret what they say?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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You keep doubting everyone else love for God. God says if you love me keep my commandments
To you may think that, believe ,faith and love are all mind things but to God they are all action things.I believe in being a doer of the word

John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Acts 19:17-19

[SUP]17 [/SUP]And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also dwelling at Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified.

[SUP]18 [/SUP]And many that believed came, and confessed, and shewed their deeds.

[SUP]19 [/SUP]Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver.


Matthew 17:20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.


John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Please where did I ever say this you say here
You keep doubting everyone else love for God.
I am not the accuser, nor is God himself is God, and not sayiong you are accusing me either, just saying
Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Sorry you are not seeing what is being said, unless you are feeling accused of not believing and that would not be from me if you are feeling this being trapped in sin and not wanting to be there. Maybe view the latest post on blog I write
FREED AT LAST titled freedom from sin How?
And I want to be clear on this I do not judge you or anyone, not even myself judges me. God does that and all is well with my Soul, thanks to God having my Advocate, Jesus Chirst my Savior and yours as well only and nothing added
Too simple, and so many of us have to go through our own tragedies to come to this truth that I am stating is truth
All is Gods and none of me, the only thing I did was accept the invitation and resrt in trust, relieved of all stress and worry, while I am torn down to nothing as Job was. content, no matter what
praying you get it, love from God tom you and me since we loves so deep God through son did this:
Colossians 1:22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Tell me can I improve on the above truth from God, or anyone?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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In response to the thread title:

"Says who?"
Yeah, only God will reveal what is and what is not. And those that are trying as said by Chirst your works better be better than that of the Pharisees and religious leaders of his day, for who can and will enter first? What say
And did Rahab enter in? do we all know who Rahab was. Oh and what about Mary Magdalene?
What was Jesus accused of?
maybe time to see what is meant about I reguire Mercy over Sacrifice, and begin praying and begging to get this Mercy you think anyone. Oh and not accusing anyone, I have not that right

Matthew 20:31 And the multitude rebuked them, because they should hold their peace: but they cried the more, saying, Have mercy on us, O Lord, thou Son of David.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Looks like security is from God, not by me or from me, anyone else
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,201
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He didn't say that. You missed my point. I'm using this verse to prove that you can fall from grace which he denies.
Alligator, you or I and or anyone else is not the judge, I just know I believe god and trust god to do in me what I can't and have asked for do in me
And that is: by doing what daily? Could this be die to self daily? you decide if self you ar ein the way or your denomination, whatever is, if anything is in the way between Christ and you
truly only you know this truth in you, and i trust God to reveal it to you when you are ready for this to be revealed in you Brother, no offense is from the truth except to the sin nature of the self born first from the womb here in this world, And needs the born again experience3 from God as Christ told Nicodemus in John 3
 

homwardbound

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Oct 24, 2012
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and having been made perfect, he became unto all them that obey him the author of eternal salvation;

[SUP]8 [/SUP]Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Now this man is using deceit to support a doctrine of man...we know that the only essential command to obey here is
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved. Anyone with half a brain will know that to obey him means not just one command but all now he made it easy for us by saying all is fulfilled in one, LOVE,if you believe someone why is it so hard to obey them or why would you want to obey only some of what they say or tells you to do.Just like in vs 8 we have to learn obedience to be conformed to his image
I think and see this if we are his. Father will carry on this good work to completion right? Do we trust this or can care less and take for granted this awesome salvation given by Father through Son? Using God's forgiveness as an escape goat?
I pray not
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,201
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Point 1: As salvation is offered over and over again in the Word of God on one condition only, namely,
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved;
and since "Believe" is a command, it follows that there is but one command to obey for salvation: Namely believe in or trust the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior.

Point 2: Scripture is very clear by by grace we are saved through faith . . . not of works lest anyone should boast.

Point 3: The salvation one gets for this believing is an eternal salvation, not a mere chance at it or a 15 minute version.

Point 4: As many as are trying to be saved by the law are under the curse that you are cursed if you don't do it all.

Point 5: You cut yourself off from grace and the Lord Jesus as a Savior by trying to be justified by works.

Point 6: The 2 biggest commands are indeed love. And if you are going to be judged for whether or not you loved your neighbor as yourself and loved God with all your might, you are going straight to the Lake of Fire for your failure to do it.

He came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Indeed,
he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

The command is to obey is, Believe! To try to get justified by obeying the commandments in general is to disobey Him. For His word says "not by works."

Now Dear NewB:

What are you going to do about your disobedience? Will you pretend that your are a righteous obeyer? Or will you cry out, God be merciful to me a sinner? Is it that you don't want to trust Him as your Savior?
Atwood, Brother god is Faithful and do not see what you posted here as mercy to Newbirth. for when Christ said that prostitutes will enter first before the self righteous Pharisees , said as well that ones works to even enter better be better that the Pharisees in his day.
It is not easy to give up one's flesh nature all the way, much less not easy to see, and you have and are as I see this becoming or have become dogmatic to this leaving the Mercy you have been given behind, but you decide, this is just waht i see, so intense you can get and be lost in it, been there and done that and know because of my own unredeemed flesh could do that again, and I pray not
So I think to die daily consciously daily to see the new life already given to me in appreciation and not by force to anyone, do you see what I say, pray so, for god regardless does love us all does God not?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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If you think you can earn salvation by your own works, I am very sorry to hear you reject the free gift of eternal life. It is an awful delusional pride which leads anyone to think that he can work his way. There is none who does good, no not one.

The gospel is indeed an offense to the pride of man who thinks he should be validated instead of saved.

The Greek verb is pisteuō. I translate "trust" to distinguish this type of faith from the faith which is in facts, I believe this doctrine or I believe that Jesus is the Son of God -- the type of faith that demons have who believe that God is one, convinced of the facts, but not depending on Him for anything.

Faith is the only essential on man's part for salvation; to trust in the Savior. The data on faith/believe for salvation is too long for one post here. So I put only some data:

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
1 John 5:10-13
Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Ephesians 1:13
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
John 6:40
For this is the will of my Father, that every one that beholdeth the Son, and believeth on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
joy,
1 Peter 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
John 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

JOHN 20:30
Many other signs therefore did Jesus in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 but these are written, that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye may have life in his name.

Act 13:48
And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief: 16 howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me as chief might Jesus Christ show forth all his longsuffering, for an ensample of them that should thereafter believe on him unto eternal life.
1 Tim 1:15-17
Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief: howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me as chief might Jesus Christ show forth all his longsuffering, for an ensample of them that should thereafter believe on him unto eternal life.

1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you, that ye may know that ye have eternal life, even unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God.
Eph 1:10ff
to sum up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth; in him, I say in whom also we were made a heritage, having been foreordained according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his will; 12 to the end that we should be unto the praise of his glory, we who had before hoped in Christ: 13 in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth, the gospel of your salvation,— in whom, having also believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 which is an earnest of our inheritance, unto the redemption of God’s own possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Luke 8:11-12
Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 And those by the way side are they that have heard; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word from their heart, that they may not believe and be saved.
Acts 16:31
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, thou and thy house.
1 Cor 1:21
it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save them that believe.
Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh shall be justified.

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up; that whosoever believeth may in him have eternal life.

John 3:14-18

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life. 1For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him. 1He that believeth on him is not judged: he that believeth not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only Son of God.
John 5:24
2Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life.
John 6:47
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth hath eternal life.

John 10:27
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

1 John 5:10-12
He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in him: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he hath not believed in the witness that God hath borne concerning his Son. And the witness is this, that God gave unto us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath the life; he that hath not the Son of God hath not the life.
Ps 37:5-6
Commit thy way unto Jehovah;
Trust also in him, and he will bring it to pass.
And he will make thy righteousness to go forth as the light,
And thy justice as the noonday.


Acts 15:8

And God, who knoweth the heart, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us; and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

Acts 26:18b

that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in me.

Rom 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.

Rom 3:21-30

But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; 24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God; 26 for the showing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus. 27 Where then is the glorying? It is excluded. By what manner of law? of works? Nay: but by a law of faith. 28 We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yea, of Gentiles also: 30 if so be that God is one, and he shall justify the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through faith.

Rom 4:1ff

:1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, hath found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not toward God. 3 For what saith the scripture? And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness. 6 Even as David also pronounceth blessing upon the man, unto whom God reckoneth righteousness apart from works, 7 saying,
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin.

9 Is this blessing then pronounced upon the circumcision, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say, To Abraham his faith was reckoned for righteousness. 10 How then was it reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision: 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might be reckoned unto them; 12 and the father of circumcision to them who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham which he had in uncircumcision. 13 For not through the law was the promise to Abraham or to his seed that he should be heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if they that are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise is made of none effect: 15 for the law worketh wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there transgression. 16 For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (as it is written, A father of many nations have I made thee) before him whom he believed, even God, who giveth life to the dead, and calleth the things that are not, as though they were. 18 Who in hope believed against hope, to the end that he might become a father of many nations, according to that which had been spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And without being weakened in faith he considered his own body now as good as dead (he being about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb; 20 yet, looking unto the promise of God, he wavered not through unbelief, but waxed strong through faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully assured that what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 Wherefore also it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.

Rom 5:1-2
Being therefore justified by faith, let us have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; through whom also we have had our access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; and let us boast in hope of the glory of God.
Rom 9:30:
What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, who followed not after righteousness, attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith: but Israel, following after a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by works. They stumbled at the stone of stumbling; even as it is written,
Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence:
And he that believeth on him shall not be put to shame.

Rom 10:4ff

For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to every one that believeth. For Moses writeth that the man that doeth the righteousness which is of the law shall live thereby. But the righteousness which is of faith saith thus, Say not in thy heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down:) or, Who shall descend into the abyss? (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.


Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 3:

This only would I learn from you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now perfected in the flesh? 4 Did ye suffer so many things in vain? if it be indeed in vain. 5 He therefore that supplieth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. 7 Know therefore that they that are of faith, the same are sons of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all the nations be blessed. 9 So then they that are of faith are blessed with the faithful Abraham. 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one who continueth not in all things that are written in the book of the law, to do them. 11 Now that no man is justified by the law before God, is evident: for, The righteous shall live by faith; 12 and the law is not of faith; but, He that doeth them shall live in them. 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 that upon the Gentiles might come the blessing of Abraham in Christ Jesus; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Gal 3:22ff

But the scripture shut up all things under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept in ward under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. So that the law is become our tutor to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith is come, we are no longer under a tutor. For ye are all sons of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus.

Gal 5:5-6

For we through the Spirit by faith wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith working through love.
Atwood are you sure that you are not forcing water down others throat? Check with your maker please, I see it in your posts, and it might be and get mine as well, God forbid
So if so, I apologize
 
A

Alligator

Guest

Point 2: Scripture is very clear by by grace we are saved through faith . . . not of works lest anyone should boast.


Yes, but you do not understand works.

QUOTE=Atwood;1563634]ndeed, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

The command is to obey is, Believe! To try to get justified by obeying the commandments in general is to disobey Him. For His word says "not by works.[/quote]

To make a statement like this tells me you do not know that there are different kinds of works. There are works of the law, Romans 3: 28, works of righteousness that is our own righteousness Titus 3:5 and works of obedience, Luke 13:3. Are you telling me that we are not even required to do works that are in indirect obedience to Christ's demands ? So, we don't even have to repent, right?
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
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Yes, but you do not understand works.

QUOTE=Atwood;1563634]ndeed, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

The command is to obey is, Believe! To try to get justified by obeying the commandments in general is to disobey Him. For His word says "not by works.

To make a statement like this tells me you do not know that there are different kinds of works. There are works of the law, Romans 3: 28, works of righteousness that is our own righteousness Titus 3:5 and works of obedience, Luke 13:3. Are you telling me that we are not even required to do works that are in indirect obedience to Christ's demands ? So, we don't even have to repent, right?
1) You have to do good works and you have no excuse! You must do the works in direct obedience to the Lord Jesus, including, "You shall be perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect! You must do these things. but

2) You do not do good works. There is none righteous, no not one. In fact, before God's standards you and I are vile sinners. It is not that we sin a little hear and there, but Romans 1 describes us in all our depravity.

Now if you insist on doing works for salvation (which in itself is a big disobedience), how are you going to pass the test, being a big sinner who will never pass that test? Or will you delude yourself into believing how righteous you are?

3) Thus you are out of luck, except for grace.

4) Repent: Repentance = metanoia; repent = metanoeō. Meta = after, no => thought. Repentance means change of mind. It does not mean sorrow for sin or resolving to turn over a new leaf. There is another word for repent, not used for salvation, metamelomai, which refers to sorrow for sin. Judas had that one and hanged himself.

Could my tears forever flow,
Could my works no languor know;
These for sin could not atone;
Thou must save & thou alone;
I my hand no price I bring;
Simply to thy cross I cling.

5) You must repent, change your mind from trusting in water baptism or any other human work. You must repent, change your mind from not trusting the Lord Jesus with your eternal destiny to trusting Him with it.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.
There is no other hope.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
Atwood are you sure that you are not forcing water down others throat? Check with your maker please, I see it in your posts, and it might be and get mine as well, God forbid
So if so, I apologize
Earnestly contend for the faith once for all delivered to the saints.
By this time it might have been appropriate to quit, except that this is a public board where others can read, others aside from the continual objectors.
 
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