It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[homwardbound]

Wow, just keep in mind that those you teach OSAS and they end up giving up their faith end up in hell, their blood will be on your hands and head. You will be responsible for them. I am saved and I know that I am. I believe every word in the bible and am also secure with my salvation but I by no means would be so arrogant as to believe I could live a lifestyle filled with sin. I wont buy into your johnny come lately man made doctrine. You should push your pride aside and earnestly seek the Lord on this issue and you would see the truth. I have, I would believe OSAS if God had led me to. Look at your own life, are you getting answers for your prayers? Are people being delivered at your church, are they showing fruit? Anyway, Ive tried to make a connection with you cause we should be able to put doctrinal issues aside an be brothers in Christ, I know I have many brothers in Jesus Christ. Im done with this thread.

Sinnner do you think god will leave those you speak of hear if they have chosen to beleive and do believe?
I know God never left me and never will, and because of this love from God, I respond ans asked how to walk upright and not be dead as I saw I was thanks to God's unwavering kindness
Do you not see this yet? Just asking

 

[Atwood]

Does Ephesians 1 Imply OSS (Eternal Security) Once Saved, Saved!

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with
every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ: even as
he chose us in him before the foundation of the world,
that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love:
having foreordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
to the praise of the glory of his grace,
which he freely bestowed on us in the Beloved:
in whom we have our redemption through his blood,
the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, making known unto us the mystery of his will, according to
his good pleasure which he purposed in him unto a dispensation of the fulness of the times, to sum up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth; in him, I say, in whom also
we were made a heritage,
having been foreordained according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his will; to the end that we should be unto the praise of his glory, we who had before hoped in Christ: in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth, the gospel of your salvation,—
in whom, having also believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, which is an earnest of our inheritance, unto the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of his glory.

Let us meditate on the implications of this passage:

who hath blessed us with
every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ:

Does this mean that it is a done deal -- in the past He has already given us ever spiritual blessing in the heavenlies? Is eternal life & never perishing already a gift given in the past to every believer?

even as
he chose us in him before the foundation of the world,
that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love:

Does this mean that long before the believer was born it was already determined that the believer would eventually be holy & without blemish before Him in love, without blemish indicating no indwelling sin, no sin nature, no capacity to sin?

having foreordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Does this mean that the sonship of the believer was already determined by God's good pleasure, by His will long before man was created?

to the praise of the glory of his grace,
which he freely bestowed on us in the Beloved:

Does this mean that man's purpose in creation was to show God's attribute of grace (favor contrary to man's merit) and that to try to be justified by works is an attack on the very purpose of man's creation?

in whom we have our redemption through his blood,

Does this mean that the believer has been bought out & set free? If the Son shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.

the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,

Does this mean that forgiveness is never a compensation for good works?

according to his good pleasure which he purposed in him . . . to sum up all things in Christ, . . . in whom also
we were made a heritage,
having been foreordained according to the purpose of him who works all things after the counsel of his will;

Does this mean that the believer's blessed status is a matter of God's foreordaining it long before anyone was born, and that this status is ultimately the result of God's sovereign irresistible will? Could it be that God never asked man's opinion when he decided how things were going to be? Could it be that God does not respect the puny will of man?

to the end that we should be unto the praise of his glory,

Does this mean that when the Lord determined what was going to be what, he did it to praise His own glory, not man's glory?

we who had before hoped in Christ: in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth, the gospel of your salvation,—
in whom, having also believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, which is an earnest of our inheritance,
to the redemption of God’s own possession,
to the praise of his glory.

Does this mean that the Holy Spirit is like earnest money in a real estate deal?
The seal of the Spirit guarantees our inheritance.
Does this mean that we must be eternally secure?
The seal of the Spirit guarantees that we are God's property.
Does this mean that the Lord will never let us go, no more than He would consider that the Holy Spirit should be removed from the Trinity?

Are you warmed all over and down to your deepest most innermost being to contemplate those verses? Does it thrill you to realize that before you were ever born you were already chosen to be holy & without blemish before God Almighty in love?

Does this motivate you to trust the Lord Jesus as your only & sufficient Savior, to rest in His love, to depend on Him completely for your eternal destiny? Can you believe that He is able to guard you from stumbling, and to set you before the presence of his glory without blemish in exceeding joy? Can you believe that He is not only the author (in eternity past) but the perfecter of your faith? Can you believe that He Who started the work, will complete it in you?

 

[nl]

The human heart is deceitful and even unknowable (Jeremiah 17:9). We can fool ourselves but
Almighty God knows all things. Saving faith must reside in the heart and not merely in the head and imagination (Romans 10:9-10). Even young children can have imaginary friends. Don't let Jesus be merely your imaginary friend. We must know Jesus Christ in Spirit and in Truth. Jesus can be both good and severe (Romans 12). Salvation is of The Lord. God-wrought change in the heart will generate good fruit and, yes, good works and love for God and others.

 

[Alligator]

I sincerely wish you did, but you do not apparently. You do not mean the same thing by Savior and Salvation that I mean. You apparently have not yet brought yourself to trust the Lord Jesus with your eternal destiny.



Sinnner, I can't accept that you are a we, until you trust Christ with your eternal destiny. No one is likely to be perfect and sinless on any day. Perfection is the standard, but we do not sustain it. I hesitate to define how to live the Christian life with you, because it is a topic that requires trusting Christ as Savior to understand. I find the core teaching on the Christian life in Romans 5-8 and Galatians.



The gospel as presented to the unsaved person is the message that God so loved the world that He gave His unique Son that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. I proclaim that you must trust the Lord Jesus as Savior for transformation of being from sinner to Child of God with the free gift of eternal life. Salvation is defined as a state of eternal security in the Savior. There is no satanic question of the Lord Jesus failing to keep His promise of eternal life. If you now trust Christ, you get not merely a change of life now, but eternal life, life without end, not interruptible by you or all the forces of satan. Nothing now nor nothing to come, nor height, nor depth nor any other created thing can separate you from the love of God once you trust Christ as Savior.

I would advise the new Christian that he needs to pray without ceasing and go to a good Bible-believing church where the Bible is taught, where no one spread the idea that Christ will not follow through with one's salvation. He began it, and He will complete it; His promise.



There is but one thing the Bible requires for salvation, that of trusting Christ as Savior. But you cannot have a Savior who does not save, and you cannot be saved without being saved. There is no category of having faith (in the Savior) & then not having it in the Bible. At the basis of this is the new nature which we get, which is never charged with sin. The new nature begotten of God cannot sin. The believer, however, retains his old nature flesh, like an alternative set of clothes. Even when the Christian sins, his better self is not sinning, but Sin that dwells in His flesh (Romans 7): It is no longer I who do it, but Sin that dwells in me. This does not relieve the Christian of responsibility for sin and the need to confess it. Once you become a child of God, you can no longer stop being his child than you can stop being the physical son of your father.

That is my explanation of how it works. But regardless of my explanation, rest assured that if you truly trust Christ for your eternal destiny, you will have eternal life (not temporary life until you stop believing), and you will never perish.

Wow, just keep in mind that those you teach OSAS and they end up giving up their faith end up in hell, their blood will be on your hands and head. You will be responsible for them. I am saved and I know that I am. I believe every word in the bible and am also secure with my salvation but I by no means would be so arrogant as to believe I could live a lifestyle filled with sin. I wont buy into your johnny come lately man made doctrine. You should push your pride aside and earnestly seek the Lord on this issue and you would see the truth. I have, I would believe OSAS if God had led me to. Look at your own life, are you getting answers for your prayers? Are people being delivered at your church, are they showing fruit? Anyway, Ive tried to make a connection with you cause we should be able to put doctrinal issues aside an be brothers in Christ, I know I have many brothers in Jesus Christ. Im done with this thread.

You can't teach Atwood anything because he already knows it all. Just ask him he'll tell you.

 

[Atwood]

You took up that offer, but in doing so, you make it as if that is the position I hold. It is not, any longer.

Ben, please stop and think on this. If a person claims that somehow a believer might end up in the Lake of Fire, that indicates a failure to trust Christ as Savior. I would not be loving my neighbor as myself to make a rule that I should not urge such a person to trust Christ as his only and sufficient Savior, to trust Christ for his eternal destiny, instead of one who just gives the believer a chance at salvation. Faithful are the wounds of a friend.

If you have abandoned that POV, great, and have come to trust wholly in the Savior, great!

I am happy & ready to recognize any man as my brother in Christ if that person actually trusts Christ as Savior, assuming Christ is adequately defined. (Jesús the Mexican car mechanic is no Savior, nor is Michael the Archangel.) Denomination is no consideration, agreement with me on church government is no issue. Dependence upon Christ for eternal destiny is an issue.

Truly I seek your blessing and everyone else's on this forum.

 

[Atwood]

Another lie from the pits of hell (what I put in bold).

What is your proof of that?

The gospel is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved. If you think that somehow you might end up in the Lake of Fire, you are not trusting Christ as Savior. That is obvious. How can you trust Him as Savior and yet not believe that He saves you?

To anyone who says that, I say, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved; depend on Him for your eternal destiny.

I will not stop. I probably would stop posting it to you as you seem to hardened in rejecting this truth and accusing me of being satanic for proclaiming and applying this truth. But this is a public forum, and there are others reading. So you may expect any time you claim that a believer is not secure in Christ forever, you can expect a rebuttal from me. I am disappointed by your vitriolic post; I thought that perhaps you had repented of claiming what you claimed. And I was happy to see what I thought was that change in you.

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish!

 

[Atwood]

A Christian who questions their assurance need only grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ, not "re-accept" Him,

Ben, do you not realize that the Bible never says that you get saved by accepting Christ. The word is believe/trust in/have faith in the Lord Jesus, not "accept."

Anyone who does not trust Christ as SAvior, thinking He might end up in the Lake of fire, is not trusting Christ as Savior, the giver of eternal life. The problem of failing to profoundly trust Christ as SAvior, is not remedied simply by making such a person change his intellectual doctrine; it is solved by that person actually trusting Christ as Savior in the real sense, instead of the bogus sense wherein the one who claims he trusts, really doesn't.

To such a one the gospel is, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved. The sheep have eternal life and shall never perish.

For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.

 

[newbirth]

Sinnner do you think god will leave those you speak of hear if they have chosen to beleive and do believe?
I know God never left me and never will, and because of this love from God, I respond ans asked how to walk upright and not be dead as I saw I was thanks to God's unwavering kindness
Do you not see this yet? Just asking

If a man's 18 yr old son will lay on his bed every morning and call out to his dad 'hey pops can you please come teach me how to walk this morning' will you not assume something is wrong?
He has already laid out the plan to follow brother
2 Pet 1
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
[SUP]3 [/SUP]According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

 

[Atwood]

give diligence to make your calling and election sure:

I commend you NewB for quoting the Word. The entrance of God's Word brings light.

Indeed, it is well to give diligence to make your calling and election sure.

It is well to ask oneself, "Do I really trust the Crucified, loving, Savior with my eternal destiny; or have I written Him off as a sufficient Savior, thinking "something in my hand I bring"?

If somehow anyone thinks that he might end up in the Lake of Fire, he is not trusting the Savior.

 

[newbirth]

Ben, do you not realize that the Bible never says that you get saved by accepting Christ. The word is believe/trust in/have faith in the Lord Jesus, not "accept."

Anyone who does not trust Christ as SAvior, thinking He might end up in the Lake of fire, is not trusting Christ as Savior, the giver of eternal life. The problem of failing to profoundly trust Christ as SAvior, is not remedied simply by making such a person change his intellectual doctrine; it is solved by that person actually trusting Christ as Savior in the real sense, instead of the bogus sense wherein the one who claims he trusts, really doesn't.

To such a one the gospel is, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved. The sheep have eternal life and shall never perish.

For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.

So you Have not accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Master. Well it's kinda hard to accept what you have not received.How can you believe and not receive If you have not received you can not accept. But there is still hope brother.

• John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
  Unless you think being a son of God is not good enough to get you saved and eternal life
  
  And I am telling you the sheep who hear him and follow him he gives them eternal life and they shall not perish....big difference
  

 

[Atwood]

Great OSS Verse: If the Son shall make you free, you shall be free indeed!

It the Son shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.
That is the truth of redemption, bought out & set free.

And if the Son of God shall save you, well then, you are saved, you shall make it to Heaven.

Once Saved, Saved -- indeed saved.
You cannot be saved without being saved.

Attention all who are hanging on to a nail on the outside of Noah's Ark, you are doomed to drowning. YOu must get into the Ark, where the Lord shuts the door.

Trust Him, cast yourself upon His care. When He redeems, He keeps.
He is the author & finisher of our faith.

 

[newbirth]

I commend you NewB for quoting the Word. The entrance of God's Word brings light.

Indeed, it is well to give diligence to make your calling and election sure.

It is well to ask oneself, "Do I really trust the Crucified, loving, Savior with my eternal destiny; or have I written Him off as a sufficient Savior, thinking "something in my hand I bring"?

If somehow anyone thinks that he might end up in the Lake of Fire, he is not trusting the Savior.

Who is thinking of lake of fire?
Who is bringing something in their hand?
These epistles were written for our edification so do we obey or say...
""Do I really trust the Crucified, loving, Savior with my eternal destiny; or have I written Him off as a sufficient Savior, "
If we trust Christ Christ we obey every word he commands us, we cannot help God with our salvation, the way has already been marked out we have to fall in and be transformed by the renewing of our mind.
This is what Paul say to us...
[h=3]1 Corinthians 11:1-3[/h]King James Version (KJV)


11 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.


There is no doubt in my mind of your love for God brother.... neither of his love for you. He is everything you say he is but you must let him make you what he wants you to be... His name be praised forever

 

[Atwood]

So you Have not accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Master. Well it's kinda hard to accept what you have not received.How can you believe and not receive If you have not received you can not accept. But there is still hope brother.

• John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
  Unless you think being a son of God is not good enough to get you saved and eternal life

[/QUOTE]

NewB, I point out that scripture never says "accept Christ" for salvation. You did not quote a verse for that one. What the Bible says, over and over is believe/faith plus nothing.
Can you admit that?

Yes it does once use "receive" which is further defined as "believe on His name."
And in Rev 3 he stands at the door and knocks for anyone who will open the door.
Scripture thus a couple of times comes close to "accept," but never says "accept." Since I used to speak about "accept Christ" before I was saved, I have an allergy to the term. Of course it depends on what you mean by "accept." At any rate, quote a verse that says "accept," or retract the personal attack.

It is best to use biblical language, though I don't condemn someone merely for saying "accept," as I don't necessarily know that that means in the mouth of the person who said it.

 

[Atwood]

Who is thinking of lake of fire?
Who is bringing something in their hand?

Those who claim a believer can be lost generally imply go to Lake of Fire.
Those who add something to "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved," namely works, bring as it were "something in their hand."

"Nothing in thy hand I bring, simply to thy cross I cling" old hymn.

""Do I really trust the Crucified, loving, Savior with my eternal destiny; or have I written Him off as a sufficient Savior, "
If we trust Christ Christ we obey every word he commands us,

Utter nonsense. The unsaved sin all the time. Even believers stumble in many ways. They hardly obey every word he commands. When is the last time you obeyed, "You shall be perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect"???

What is amazing is when someone who has never trusted Christ with his eternal destiny comes out about obeying commandments, since he never has.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.

So when will you start keeping them, NewB? How many times have you sinned today since you got up?

you must let him make you what he wants you to be... His name be praised forever

It all starts, NewB, with trusting Christ for a new birth and one's eternal destiny.
So long as one claims that somehow he might stop believing and be lost, He is not trusting Christ as Savior; thus he is advised to do so at once.

Indeed, a man is advised to let Him make him, instead of thinking he can grit your teeth and obey commandments without God's help.

Trust in Him and He will make your righteousness to go forth as the sunshine.

 

[newbirth]

T

Utter nonsense. The unsaved sin all the time. Even believers stumble in many ways. They hardly obey every word he commands. When is the last time you obeyed, "You shall be perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect"???

What is amazing is when someone who has never trusted Christ with his eternal destiny comes out about obeying commandments, since he never has.



[/COLOR][/SIZE]
So when will you start keeping them, NewB? How many times have you sinned today since you got up?

• Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
  

.

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

2 Corinthians 13:11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

• Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
  

Colossians 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
2 Timothy 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
1 Peter 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.




His name be praised forever

 

[BenFTW]

What is your proof of that?

The gospel is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved. If you think that somehow you might end up in the Lake of Fire, you are not trusting Christ as Savior. That is obvious. How can you trust Him as Savior and yet not believe that He saves you?

To anyone who says that, I say, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved; depend on Him for your eternal destiny.

I will not stop. I probably would stop posting it to you as you seem to hardened in rejecting this truth and accusing me of being satanic for proclaiming and applying this truth. But this is a public forum, and there are others reading. So you may expect any time you claim that a believer is not secure in Christ forever, you can expect a rebuttal from me. I am disappointed by your vitriolic post; I thought that perhaps you had repented of claiming what you claimed. And I was happy to see what I thought was that change in you.

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish!

Look to what I put in bold. I have not once made such a claim, matter of fact, I claimed the exact opposite. I said, "I believe in ESOTB." What part of that don't you understand? Let me word it out for you Atwood, "Eternal security of the believer." Stop bearing false witness. Stop coming up with strawmen to tackle when I have said no such things. You read what you want to see and ignore what is being said. You are an awful person to have a discussion with... as you condemn one, of many, who God calls a child. I am secure in Christ, whether you believe that or not. I could care less whether you believe that, because God will tell you I am His son and He is my heavenly Father. You are condemning those that are His, and so I say again, you do the work of the enemy. "There is therefore now no condemnation for those that are in Christ Jesus."

 

[newbirth]

[/LIST]

NewB, I point out that scripture never says "accept Christ" for salvation. You did not quote a verse for that one. What the Bible says, over and over is believe/faith plus nothing.
Can you admit that?

Yes it does once use "receive" which is further defined as "believe on His name."
And in Rev 3 he stands at the door and knocks for anyone who will open the door.
Scripture thus a couple of times comes close to "accept," but never says "accept." Since I used to speak about "accept Christ" before I was saved, I have an allergy to the term. Of course it depends on what you mean by "accept." At any rate, quote a verse that says "accept," or retract the personal attack.

It is best to use biblical language, though I don't condemn someone merely for saying "accept," as I don't necessarily know that that means in the mouth of the person who said it.

[/QUOTE]
Show me a scripture which says "eternal security" Well you cannot accept what you have not received. And since you don't like to obey hold on to this ...
Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

 

[nl]

...he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him

Jesus said more than "Believe". Jesus also said "Follow Me" and He continued to say and to command much more.

God's calling people to Himself is so that they would become followers of Christ. The common, New Testament description of disciples of Jesus is not "Christian". It is disciples or "followers of the Way".

 

[newbirth]

Jesus said more than "Believe". Jesus also said "Follow Me" and He continued to say and to command much more.

God's calling people to Himself is so that they would become followers of Christ. The common, New Testament description of disciples of Jesus is not "Christian". It is disciples or "followers of the Way".

that is pretty simple and straight forward even the 'blind' could see

 

[Atwood]

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

2 Corinthians 13:11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

• Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Colossians 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
2 Timothy 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
1 Peter 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.




His name be praised forever

amen

4 any fems reading, A women