Should we pray to Mary as the Mother of God?

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#81
Although I already know the answer to this, I would like to see the scripture concerning it as well.

These magical rosary beads, this praying to Mary, doing hail-mary's, etc... all of it is idolatry plain and simple. As many have said, Jesus Christ IS the mediator. It spelled out plain as day throughout the Bible. I can't believe it's still being discussed to this day, being there is no scriptural support for Mary being anything other than than Jesus' earthly mother.
The hail mary is a quote from Luke. When is reciting scripture idolatry?
 
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#82
No praying to a dead corpse is idolitry. 1st Timothy 2:5
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

For the living know they will die; but the dead do not know anything, nor have they any longer a reward, for their memory is forgotten.



Co-Mediator does not mean on par or equal to - it means aid and helper.

The church of Rome didnt even buy in offically on that untill the 1800's
How is that?
 
May 18, 2010
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#83
I think i was in a faith baptist church when I heard that Mary was not the mother of God because she's human, however, she is the mother of Jesus, hmm it's all confusing to me, because He is God and she is His mother, but I see in some sense that He is also the Son of man which interestingly could link son of mary son of God. yess, hmmmm...
 
Sep 10, 2013
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#84
In other words, you DO NOT worship Jesus Christ, although you claim to believe that He is both God and man.
I apologize to the OP for this off-topic, but I wanted to have a suspicion cleared up. The western christianity (except for the catholics and the protestants) NO LONGER worship Jesus Christ. This is a real tragedy!!! Not that a catholic woman pray with a rosary or whatever, but that people, unconsciously, don't worship Christ! This is apostasy!
 
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#86
That was another false dogma that wasn’t created till around 1854 Pope Pious IX
Want more?


Dogmas and doctrines are proclaimed on what was always believed. What is made a doctrine at a particular date had been believed since the times of the apostles.

Inability of the Pope Vatican Council late 1860"s
Not sure what this even means? Do you mean infallibility?

Tradition claimed as equal authority with the Bible 1545 Council of Trent
The Council of Trent reaffirmed what was already being taught. Keep in mind that for Catholics "Tradition" is the name for what the apostles taught, which was later written down in scripture.

Purgatory elevated from doctrine to dogma council of Florence 1438
Can you please explain that because that makes absolutely no sense to me?

Trans substation and confessing to a priest Pope innocent the iii 1215
That doesn't make sense to me. Confession existed from the early Church. Private confession, as opposed to public confession became more common in the 8th Ccentury. Transubstantiation is a metaphysical description for what occurs.

Indulgences, when a coin in the coffers, rings a soul from purgatory springs1090
The belief in indulgences long precedes that. The coin in the coffers was created by Tetzel around 1500 and was outside of Catholic teaching.

Celibacy 1079
Celibacy is not a doctrine or a dogma. Celibacy is a practice that is the norm in the western Catholic Church. Eastern Catholics have married priests. Catholics do not believe that celibacy is necessary for priesthood, however, it remains the norm in the west.

Attendance of Mass mandatory 1000
That's a rather odd year to pick and I wonder in what way this was proclaimed? Failure to go to Mass was considered a violation of the commandments.

Baptism regenerates the soul 431
Where and when is this?
 
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#87
And so she is. She gave birth to the Son of God. I'm not disputing her status as a human being, I am disputing her status as being worshiped and prayed to as a god, which is what this thread is about. I think me and you agree on that for the most part.
No Christians worship Mary as a god. That's heresy.
 
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#88
my church goes through the bible a passage at a time each week. We don't construct images of marry and hang them on the walls, or bow to them, or say prayers to her... and i will say it even now, Mary was blessed as a human being to be who she was chosen to be. it was a great honor, more so than any other human could have hoped to be blessed in that regard. she is not a god.

we are not commanded by God to do anything regarding Mary. she herself said she would be called blessed, and so she still is. God never commanded us to worship her, make images of her, or anything else like that. she is respected by every Christian, and every Christian will say she is blessed to be who she was. I am sure of that.

but not every Christian takes it as far as creating images of her. those images are forbidden. worship of Mary is forbidden. deification of Mary to the point she is exalted to godhood is forbidden. we are taught how to pray by the Son of God himself. Why would we do any different?

why shift the object of our worship from him to someone else? it's forbidden.
God commanded that upon the arc golden cheribum statues be made.

Images are only a problem when they are worshiped and Catholics and others do not worship them.
 
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#89
You are now talking about idolatry.

However, just calling Mary the mother of God is not idolatry if by that all you mean that that she is the mother of the human nature of the Lord Jesus only, while He is one person with two natures. I think that technically RCC theologians will admit that she is not the mother of the YHWH nature of Christ. Still the phrase mother of God is dangerous.

Surely many RCCists treat her as if she were God, which is an abominable idolatry.
No they don't and if any Catholic did they would be committing a grave heresy.

Anti-Catholics love to accuse Catholics of doing all kinds of things which clearly contradict their faith.
 
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#90
Trying to make praying to saints in Heaven analogous to asking humans on earth to pray for you is bogus.
1) Only God is omniscient and omnipresent.
And those that believe in asking saints to pray for them believe that it is God that brings the request to them.

2) The saints in Heaven are not omnipresent. How can they hear you pray? How can they hear 1000's of prayers uttered to them at the same time?
Do you think that Heaven exists within time?

4) RCCist do no limit themselves to asking a saint in Heaven to pray for them to the Father or to Christ. RCCists treat the saint like he/she was God.
If they do they are not Catholic.
5) There are no prayers to dead saints in the NT.
There is a lot of stuff not mentioned in the NT. Where does the NT say to only do what it mentions?
 

ForthAngel

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Aug 31, 2012
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#93
In other words, you DO NOT worship Jesus Christ, although you claim to believe that He is both God and man.
Reread what I said and try again. Not "in other words", in my own words, I told you how I worship, through whom I worship, who I believe Jesus is (God), and how I worship and pray. Nothing unbliblical about what I wrote or how I go about worshiping or praying.

You do believe in the Trinity, I'm sure? 3 separate persons in one Godhead correct? You can attempt to twist anything I said, but everything I said is scriptural and aligns perfectly with the Trinity belief.
 
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#94
Reread what I said and try again. Not "in other words", in my own words, I told you how I worship, through whom I worship, who I believe Jesus is (God), and how I worship and pray. Nothing unbliblical about what I wrote or how I go about worshiping or praying.

You do believe in the Trinity, I'm sure? 3 separate persons in one Godhead correct? You can attempt to twist anything I said, but everything I said is scriptural and aligns perfectly with the Trinity belief.
Your post seemed to indicate that God was found more in the Father than the other persons. Is Jesus as God equal to the Father as God? What consists of God, is that not equally shared between the three persons?
 

ForthAngel

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Aug 31, 2012
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#95
Your post seemed to indicate that God was found more in the Father than the other persons. Is Jesus as God equal to the Father as God? What consists of God, is that not equally shared between the three persons?
I believe They are separate but one. It's through Jesus that God revealed himself, so it's through Jesus we know God. Jesus is our conduit. This does not make him any less or more. It's through Jesus that the world was created. It's through Jesus the world will be judged. It's through Jesus we will be resurrected. It's through Jesus we pray. Guided by the Holy Spirit, and through Jesus, we know God the Father and have fellowship with GOD (as a whole). If it seemed like I diminished on anything, it was what I wrote being misinterpreted. Each of the 3 have separate functions, all being One absolute being.

This is my best understanding of the Trinity. It's a complicated subject for me, so I just go by what I read and understand, being careful in both directions to make sure I'm not doing something majorly wrong because I don't/can't fully understand it.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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#96
Some people are against praying to St. Mary because they say she is dead. They do not believe that she, along with the saints, are now part of the triumphant Church.
Mary life in different world, how can she hear us?

If I life in Indonesia and you life in america, and I go to my room asking you to pray for me, can you hear me, unless you use phone or email.

People who pray to Mary did not use phone. how he expect Mary hear?
 
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#97
I believe They are separate but one.
Distinct or separate? If they are separate, you have three Gods.

It's through Jesus that God revealed himself, so it's through Jesus we know God. Jesus is our conduit. This does not make him any less or more. It's through Jesus that the world was created. It's through Jesus the world will be judged. It's through Jesus we will be resurrected. It's through Jesus we pray. Guided by the Holy Spirit, and through Jesus, we know God the Father and have fellowship with GOD (as a whole). If it seemed like I diminished on anything, it was what I wrote being misinterpreted. Each of the 3 have separate functions, all being One absolute being.
All three have different roles when it comes to Earth, but that does not define them. That means who they are is defined by creation.
 

ForthAngel

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Aug 31, 2012
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#98
Distinct or separate? If they are separate, you have three Gods.



All three have different roles when it comes to Earth, but that does not define them. That means who they are is defined by creation.
separate as in distinct yes. not three separate Gods as I think I made a point of, even if I used the wrong word. a better word might even be 3 variations of the One God.
 
May 15, 2013
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#99
Trying to make praying to saints in Heaven analogous to asking humans on earth to pray for you is bogus.
1) Only God is omniscient and omnipresent.
2) The saints in Heaven are not omnipresent. How can they hear you pray? How can they hear 1000's of prayers uttered to them at the same time?
3) The intercessor in Heaven is the Lord Jesus. He can hear all prayers being omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent.
4) RCCist do no limit themselves to asking a saint in Heaven to pray for them to the Father or to Christ. RCCists treat the saint like he/she was God.
5) There are no prayers to dead saints in the NT.
Revelation 5:8
And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God’s people.

I guess these Saint has gotten caught by the Lamb for trying to run off with our prayers and the harp. Or maybe they were presenting the prayers to Christ. What I'm saying.......where did the Saint had came from since the dead are still dead? A Saint is a soul that had made it through the storm and received their crown and so which means that they were once humans. But I still can't understand why is they are running off with people's prayers? Maybe if I remove this log from my own eyes, then I'll be able to discern what the true meaning of this verse is really saying. And how can dead people buried their own dead. If I had died and be expecting another dead corpse to bury me, then I'll be waiting for eternally for that to happen.
 
May 15, 2013
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Revelation 5:8
And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God’s people.

I guess these Saint has gotten caught by the Lamb for trying to run off with our prayers and the harp. Or maybe they were presenting the prayers to Christ. What I'm saying.......where did the Saint had came from since the dead are still dead? A Saint is a soul that had made it through the storm and received their crown and so which means that they were once humans. But I still can't understand why is they are running off with people's prayers? Maybe if I remove this log from my own eyes, then I'll be able to discern what the true meaning of this verse is really saying. And how can dead people buried their own dead. If I had died and be expecting another dead corpse to bury me, then I'll be waiting for eternally for that to happen.
I had meant Eternity.