It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

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nl

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Jun 26, 2011
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The majority of Americans (USA) (73%) identify themselves as Christians. Somebody must be pretending when they respond to surveys that measure such things.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
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The majority of Americans (USA) (73%) identify themselves as Christians. Somebody must be pretending when they respond to surveys that measure such things.
I am surprised it is so high. Maybe the Hispanic invasion is responsible, most of them being nominally Christian. I would say that back in the 1950's, at least in many parts of the USA, people were nominally Christian and accepted the Bible as an authority from God. But IMHO, the vast majority of those professed Christians were unsaved professors, religionists. There was a lot of superficial Christianity in the culture. Bible some places was read every day in the schools by state law.

Since then, the cultural influence has gone way down. Yet at the same time, in some ways Christianity has flourished with radio stations and contemporary Christian music. Consider the great free assets for Bible study online, like Biblos and BibleGateway. Consider these forums! The Gospel must now be universally available by internet. Thus, IMHO, the tares and the wheat have grown together. If there is less Christian culture in the USA, it is also easier to distinguish the real Christian from the unsaved pagan.

Also, I think that today aside from the Charismatic/Pentecostal movement, Evangelical Christendom is dominated by those who trust Christ as only & sufficient Savior, those who believe that He saves to the uttermost, those who think of Him as SAvior in the sense that He actually saves and gets the believer securely to Heaven.

But for some reason, for all the numbers that Evangelicals have in the USA, we seem to have little influence and have become politically incorrect.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
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Re: Old Water Baptism Canard: Water Baptism Does Not Save.

When was the thief on the cross baptized? How could he have been saved if water were necessary?

Since salvation is offered many, many times just for believing/faith, nothing else can be essential.
Spirit baptism is salvific, but not water baptism. Water is not mentioned in the few verses that speak of baptism in connection with salvation.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, & you shall be saved.


knowing that ye have for yourselves a better possession and an abiding one. Cast not away therefore your boldness, heb 10:4

End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 3He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
2 Tim 1:8-9
… God; who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal,

2 thes 2:16-17 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.
Rm 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

And they indeed have been made priests many in number, because that by death they are hindered from continuing: but he, because he abides forever, has his priesthood unchangeable. Wherefore also he is able to save to the uttermost them who draw near to God through him, seeing he ever lives to make intercession for them. - Heb 7
Now these things having been thus prepared, the priests go in continually into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the services; but into the second the high priest alone, once in the year, not without blood, which he offereth for himself, and for the errors of the people: the Holy Spirit this signifying, that the way into the holy place hath not yet been made manifest, while the first tabernacle is yet standing; which is a figure for the time present; according to which are offered both gifts and sacrifices that cannot, as touching the conscience, make the worshipper perfect, being only (with meats and drinks and divers washings) carnal ordinances, imposed until a time of reformation.

But Christ having come a high priest of the good things to come, through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation, nor yet through the blood of goats and calves, but through his own blood, entered in once for all into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption.

John 10:27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Heb 9:11
But Christ having come a high priest of the good things to come, through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation, nor yet through the blood of goats and calves, but through his own blood, entered in once for all into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
1 Corinthians 14:36-38

King James Version (KJV)


[SUP]36 [/SUP]What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
[SUP]37 [/SUP]If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
Paul, an apostle (not from men, neither through man, but through Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead), and all the brethren that are with me, unto the churches of Galatia: Grace to you and peace from God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us out of this present evil world, according to the will of our God and Father: to whom be the glory for ever and ever. Amen.


I marvel that ye are so quickly removing from him that called you in the grace of Christ unto a different gospel; which is not another gospel: only there are some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach unto you any gospel other than that which we preached unto you, let him be anathema. As we have said before, so say I now again, If any man preacheth unto you any gospel other than that which ye received, let him be anathema. For am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? or am I striving to please men? if I were still pleasing men, I should not be a servant of Christ.


For I make known to you, brethren, as touching the gospel which was preached by me, that it is not after man. For neither did I receive it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came to me through revelation of Jesus Christ. For ye have heard of my manner of life in time past in the Jews’ religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and made havoc of it: and I advanced in the Jews’ religion beyond many of mine own age among my countrymen, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers. But when it was the good pleasure of God, who separated me, even from my mother’s womb, and called me through his grace, to reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the Gentiles; straightway I conferred not with flesh and blood: neither went I up to Jerusalem to them that were apostles before me: but I went away into Arabia; and again I returned unto Damascus.


Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas, and tarried with him fifteen days. But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord’s brother. Now touching the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie not. Then I came into the regions of Syria and Cilicia. And I was still unknown by face unto the churches of Judaea which were in Christ: but they only heard say, He that once persecuted us now preacheth the faith of which he once made havoc; and they glorified God in me.


Then after the space of fourteen years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, taking Titus also with me. And I went up by revelation; and I laid before them the gospel which I preach among the Gentiles but privately before them who were of repute, lest by any means I should be running, or had run, in vain. But not even Titus who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised: and that because of the false brethren privily brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: to whom we gave place in the way of subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you. But from those who were reputed to be somewhat ( whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth not man’s person)—they, I say, who were of repute imparted nothing to me: but contrariwise, when they saw that I had been intrusted with the gospel of the uncircumcision, even as Peter with the gospel of the circumcision (for he that wrought for Peter unto the apostleship of the circumcision wrought for me also unto the Gentiles); and when they perceived the grace that was given unto me, James and Cephas and John, they who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship, that we should go unto the Gentiles, and they unto the circumcision; only they would that we should remember the poor; which very thing I was also zealous to do.


But when Cephas came to Antioch, I resisted him to the face, because he stood condemned. For before that certain came from James, he ate with the Gentiles; but when they came, he drew back and separated himself, fearing them that were of the circumcision. And the rest of the Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that even Barnabas was carried away with their dissimulation. But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Cephas before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest as do the Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, how compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we sought to be justified in Christ, we ourselves also were found sinners, is Christ a minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build up again those things which I destroyed, I prove myself a transgressor. For I through the law died unto the law, that I might live unto God. I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I that live, but Christ liveth in me: and that life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith which is in the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself up for me. I do not make void the grace of God: for if righteousness is through the law, then Christ died for nought.


O foolish Galatians, who did bewitch you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was openly set forth crucified? This only would I learn from you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now perfected in the flesh? Did ye suffer so many things in vain? if it be indeed in vain. He therefore that supplieth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Even as Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. Know therefore that they that are of faith, the same are sons of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all the nations be blessed. So then they that are of faith are blessed with the faithful Abraham. For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one who continueth not in all things that are written in the book of the law, to do them. Now that no man is justified by the law before God, is evident: for, The righteous shall live by faith; and the law is not of faith; but, He that doeth them shall live in them. Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: that upon the Gentiles might come the blessing of Abraham in Christ Jesus; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.


Brethren, I speak after the manner of men: Though it be but a man’s covenant, yet when it hath been confirmed, no one maketh it void, or addeth thereto. Now to Abraham were the promises spoken, and to his seed. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. Now this I say: A covenant confirmed beforehand by God, the law, which came four hundred and thirty years after, doth not disannul, so as to make the promise of none effect. For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no more of promise: but God hath granted it to Abraham by promise. What then is the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise hath been made; and it was ordained through angels by the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator is not a mediator of one; but God is one. Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could make alive, verily righteousness would have been of the law. But the scripture shut up all things under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.


But before faith came, we were kept in ward under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. So that the law is become our tutor to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith is come, we are no longer under a tutor. For ye are all sons of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ did put on Christ. There can be neither Jew nor Greek, there can be neither bond nor free, there can be no male and female; for ye all are one man in Christ Jesus. And if ye are Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, heirs according to promise.


But I say that so long as the heir is a child, he differeth nothing from a bondservant though he is lord of all; but is under guardians and stewards until the day appointed of the father. So we also, when we were children, were held in bondage under the rudiments of the world: but when the fulness of the time came, God sent forth his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, that he might redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. And because ye are sons, God sent forth the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, Abba, Father. So that thou art no longer a bondservant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.


Howbeit at that time, not knowing God, ye were in bondage to them that by nature are no gods: but now that ye have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how turn ye back again to the weak and beggarly rudiments, whereunto ye desire to be in bondage over again? Ye observe days, and months, and seasons, and years. I am afraid of you, lest by any means I have bestowed labor upon you in vain.


I beseech you, brethren, become as I am, for I also am become as ye are. Ye did me no wrong: but ye know that because of an infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you the first time: and that which was a temptation to you in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but ye received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus. Where then is that gratulation of yourselves? for I bear you witness, that, if possible, ye would have plucked out your eyes and given them to me. So then am I become your enemy, by telling you the truth? They zealously seek you in no good way; nay, they desire to shut you out, that ye may seek them. But it is good to be zealously sought in a good matter at all times, and not only when I am present with you. My little children, of whom I am again in travail until Christ be formed in you— but I could wish to be present with you now, and to change my tone; for I am perplexed about you.


Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, one by the handmaid, and one by the freewoman. Howbeit the son by the handmaid is born after the flesh; but the son by the freewoman is born through promise. Which things contain an allegory: for these women are two covenants; one from mount Sinai, bearing children unto bondage, which is Hagar. Now this Hagar is mount Sinai in Arabia and answereth to the Jerusalem that now is: for she is in bondage with her children. But the Jerusalem that is above is free, which is our mother. For it is written,
Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not;
Break forth and cry, thou that travailest not:
For more are the children of the desolate than of her that hath the husband.


Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, so also it is now. Howbeit what saith the scripture? Cast out the handmaid and her son: for the son of the handmaid shall not inherit with the son of the freewoman. Wherefore, brethren, we are not children of a handmaid, but of the freewoman.


For freedom did Christ set us free: stand fast therefore, and be not entangled again in a yoke of bondage.


Behold, I Paul say unto you, that, if ye receive circumcision, Christ will profit you nothing. Yea, I testify again to every man that receiveth circumcision, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Ye are severed from Christ, ye who would be justified by the law; ye are fallen away from grace. For we through the Spirit by faith wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith working through love. Ye were running well; who hindered you that ye should not obey the truth? This persuasion came not of him that calleth you. A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. I have confidence to you-ward in the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be. But I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why am I still persecuted? then hath the stumbling-block of the cross been done away. I would that they that unsettle you would even go beyond circumcision.



 
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Show me a scripture which says "eternal security" Well you cannot accept what you have not received. And since you don't like to obey hold on to this ...
Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
only obedience which saves is obeying this command:

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.
And where did you come up with this little gem.? I would like to see a bible reference please saying this is the only command.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
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And where did you come up with this little gem.? I would like to see a bible reference please saying this is the only command.
You don't establish that something is the only in the Bible by finding a verse that says it is the only, what you do is observe that it is the only. Mary is the only mother of Jesus, but no verse says "Mary is the only mother of Jesus."

"
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
1 John 5:10-13
Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Ephesians 1:13
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
John 6:40
For this is the will of my Father, that every one that beholdeth the Son, and believes on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
joy,
1 Peter 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
John 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believes that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

JOHN 20:30
Many other signs therefore did Jesus in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 but these are written, that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye may have life in his name.

Act 13:48
And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief: 16 howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me as chief might Jesus Christ show forth all his longsuffering, for an ensample of them that should thereafter believe on him unto eternal life.
1 Tim 1:15-17
Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief: howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me as chief might Jesus Christ show forth all his longsuffering, for an ensample of them that should thereafter believe on him unto eternal life.

1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you, that ye may know that ye have eternal life, even unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God.
Eph 1:10ff
to sum up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth; in him, I say in whom also we were made a heritage, having been foreordained according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his will; 12 to the end that we should be unto the praise of his glory, we who had before hoped in Christ: 13 in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth, the gospel of your salvation,— in whom, having also believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 which is an earnest of our inheritance, unto the redemption of God’s own possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Luke 8:11-12
Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 And those by the way side are they that have heard; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word from their heart, that they may not believe and be saved.
Acts 16:31
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, thou and thy house.
1 Cor 1:21
it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save them that believe.
Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh shall be justified.

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up; that whosoever believes may in him have eternal life.

John 3:14-18

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whosoever believes on him should not perish, but have eternal life. 1For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him. 1He that believes on him is not judged: he that believes not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only Son of God.
John 5:24
2Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believes him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life.
John 6:47
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believes hath eternal life.

John 10:27
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

1 John 5:10-12
He that believes on the Son of God hath the witness in him: he that believes not God hath made him a liar; because he hath not believed in the witness that God hath borne concerning his Son. And the witness is this, that God gave unto us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath the life; he that hath not the Son of God hath not the life.
Ps 37:5-6
Commit thy way unto Jehovah;
Trust also in him, and he will bring it to pass.
And he will make thy righteousness to go forth as the light,
And thy justice as the noonday.


Acts 15:8

And God, who knoweth the heart, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us; and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

Acts 26:18b

that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in me.

Rom 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believes; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.

Rom 3:21-30

But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; 24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God; 26 for the showing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus. 27 Where then is the glorying? It is excluded. By what manner of law? of works? Nay: but by a law of faith. 28 We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yea, of Gentiles also: 30 if so be that God is one, and he shall justify the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through faith.

Rom 4:1ff

:1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, hath found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not toward God. 3 For what saith the scripture? And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believes on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness. 6 Even as David also pronounceth blessing upon the man, unto whom God reckoneth righteousness apart from works, 7 saying,
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin.

9 Is this blessing then pronounced upon the circumcision, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say, To Abraham his faith was reckoned for righteousness. 10 How then was it reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision: 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might be reckoned unto them; 12 and the father of circumcision to them who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham which he had in uncircumcision. 13 For not through the law was the promise to Abraham or to his seed that he should be heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if they that are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise is made of none effect: 15 for the law worketh wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there transgression. 16 For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (as it is written, A father of many nations have I made thee) before him whom he believed, even God, who giveth life to the dead, and calleth the things that are not, as though they were. 18 Who in hope believed against hope, to the end that he might become a father of many nations, according to that which had been spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And without being weakened in faith he considered his own body now as good as dead (he being about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb; 20 yet, looking unto the promise of God, he wavered not through unbelief, but waxed strong through faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully assured that what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 Wherefore also it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.

Rom 5:1-2
Being therefore justified by faith, let us have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; through whom also we have had our access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; and let us boast in hope of the glory of God.
Rom 9:30:
What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, who followed not after righteousness, attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith: but Israel, following after a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by works. They stumbled at the stone of stumbling; even as it is written,
Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence:
And he that believes on him shall not be put to shame.

Rom 10:4ff

For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to every one that believes. For Moses writeth that the man that doeth the righteousness which is of the law shall live thereby. But the righteousness which is of faith saith thus, Say not in thy heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down:) or, Who shall descend into the abyss? (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.


Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 3:

This only would I learn from you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now perfected in the flesh? 4 Did ye suffer so many things in vain? if it be indeed in vain. 5 He therefore that supplieth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. 7 Know therefore that they that are of faith, the same are sons of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all the nations be blessed. 9 So then they that are of faith are blessed with the faithful Abraham. 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one who continueth not in all things that are written in the book of the law, to do them. 11 Now that no man is justified by the law before God, is evident: for, The righteous shall live by faith; 12 and the law is not of faith; but, He that doeth them shall live in them. 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 that upon the Gentiles might come the blessing of Abraham in Christ Jesus; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Gal 3:22ff

But the scripture shut up all things under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept in ward under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. So that the law is become our tutor to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith is come, we are no longer under a tutor. For ye are all sons of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus.

Gal 5:5-6

For we through the Spirit by faith wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith working through love.
 
A

Alligator

Guest
Re: Old Water Baptism Canard: Water Baptism Does Not Save.

When was the thief on the cross baptized? How could he have been saved if water were necessary?

Since salvation is offered many, many times just for believing/faith, nothing else can be essential.
Spirit baptism is salvific, but not water baptism. Water is not mentioned in the few verses that speak of baptism in connection with salvation.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, & you shall be saved.


knowing that ye have for yourselves a better possession and an abiding one. Cast not away therefore your boldness, heb 10:4

End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 3He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
2 Tim 1:8-9
… God; who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal,

2 thes 2:16-17 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.
Rm 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

And they indeed have been made priests many in number, because that by death they are hindered from continuing: but he, because he abides forever, has his priesthood unchangeable. Wherefore also he is able to save to the uttermost them who draw near to God through him, seeing he ever lives to make intercession for them. - Heb 7
Now these things having been thus prepared, the priests go in continually into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the services; but into the second the high priest alone, once in the year, not without blood, which he offereth for himself, and for the errors of the people: the Holy Spirit this signifying, that the way into the holy place hath not yet been made manifest, while the first tabernacle is yet standing; which is a figure for the time present; according to which are offered both gifts and sacrifices that cannot, as touching the conscience, make the worshipper perfect, being only (with meats and drinks and divers washings) carnal ordinances, imposed until a time of reformation.

But Christ having come a high priest of the good things to come, through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation, nor yet through the blood of goats and calves, but through his own blood, entered in once for all into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption.

John 10:27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Heb 9:11
But Christ having come a high priest of the good things to come, through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation, nor yet through the blood of goats and calves, but through his own blood, entered in once for all into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption.


We don't know if/when the thief was baptized and we never will. It is all irrelevant. The thief lived and died under the Mosaic law. Baptism was not required until Christ rose from the dead. See Hebrews chapter 9.
 
A

Alligator

Guest
Re: Old Water Baptism Canard: Water Baptism Does Not Save.

When was the thief on the cross baptized?

Since salvation is offered many, many times just for believing/faith, nothing else can be essential.
Spirit baptism is salvific, but not water baptism. Water is not mentioned in the few verses that speak of baptism in connection with salvation.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, & you shall be saved.
You are dead wrong on all counts. How about a little scripture prove to make your claim ?

Let me save you the trouble. You won't find any.
 

Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
1,826
17
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Hebrews 10:32-39
[SUP]32 [/SUP]But remember the former days, when, after being enlightened, you endured a great conflict of sufferings, [SUP]33 [/SUP]partly by being made a public spectacle through reproaches and tribulations, and partly by becoming sharers with those who were so treated. [SUP]34 [/SUP]For you showed sympathy to the prisoners and accepted joyfully the seizure of your property, knowing that you have for yourselves a better possession and a lasting one. [SUP]35 [/SUP]Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward. [SUP]36 [/SUP]For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised.[SUP]37 [/SUP]For yet in a very little while
He who is coming will come, and will not delay.
[SUP]38 [/SUP]But My righteous one shall live by faith;
And if he shrinks back, My soul has no pleasure in him.



[SUP]39 [/SUP]But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.

Hebrews 11:4-30
[SUP]4 [/SUP]By faith Abel offered to God a better sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained the testimony that he was righteous, God testifying about his gifts, and through faith, though he is dead, he still speaks. [SUP]5 [/SUP]By faith Enoch was taken up so that he would not see death; and he was not found because God took him up; for he obtained the witness that before his being taken up he was pleasing to God. [SUP]6 [/SUP]And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him. [SUP]7 [/SUP]By faith Noah, being warned by God about things not yet seen, in reverence prepared an ark for the salvation of his household, by which he condemned the world, and became an heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed by going out to a place which he was to receive for an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing where he was going. [SUP]9 [/SUP]By faith he lived as an alien in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, fellow heirs of the same promise; [SUP]10 [/SUP]for he was looking for the city which has foundations, whose architect and builder is God. [SUP]11 [/SUP]By faith even Sarah herself received ability to conceive, even beyond the proper time of life, since she considered Him faithful who had promised. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore there was born even of one man, and him as good as dead at that, as many descendants as the stars of heaven in number, and innumerable as the sand which is by the seashore.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]All these died in faith, without receiving the promises, but having seen them and having welcomed them from a distance, and having confessed that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For those who say such things make it clear that they are seeking a country of their own. [SUP]15 [/SUP]And indeed if they had been thinking of that country from which they went out, they would have had opportunity to return. [SUP]16 [/SUP]But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God; for He has prepared a city for them.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son; [SUP]18 [/SUP]it was he to whom it was said, “In Isaac your descendants shall be called.” [SUP]19 [/SUP]He considered that God is able to raise people even from the dead, from which he also received him back as a type. [SUP]20 [/SUP]By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau, even regarding things to come. [SUP]21 [/SUP]By faith Jacob, as he was dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, and worshiped, leaning on the top of his staff. [SUP]22 [/SUP]By faith Joseph, when he was dying, made mention of the exodus of the sons of Israel, and gave orders concerning his bones.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]By faith Moses, when he was born, was hidden for three months by his parents, because they saw he was a beautiful child; and they were not afraid of the king’s edict. [SUP]24 [/SUP]By faith Moses, when he had grown up, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter, [SUP]25 [/SUP]choosing rather to endure ill-treatment with the people of God than to enjoy the passing pleasures of sin, [SUP]26 [/SUP]considering the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures of Egypt; for he was looking to the reward. [SUP]27 [/SUP]By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king; for he endured, as seeing Him who is unseen. [SUP]28 [/SUP]By faith he kept the Passover and the sprinkling of the blood, so that he who destroyed the firstborn would not touch them. [SUP]29 [/SUP]By faith they passed through the Red Sea as though they were passing through dry land; and the Egyptians, when they attempted it, were drowned.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]By faith the walls of Jericho fell down after they had been encircled for seven days. [SUP]31 [/SUP]By faith Rahab the harlot did not perish along with those who were disobedient, after she had welcomed the spies in peace.

It is evident that Faith, brings about works/action. True faith brings about true change - endurance. Why endure? We must endure in Jesus Christ to receive the promise....and not shrink back. Eternal Security is IN Jesus Christ. I don't believe that this is a tightrope that we must walk, but we must abide in Love, the Love of God or we "are nothing".

He is the door...a we must come in and not go back out.
 
Mar 28, 2014
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Re: Canard vs OSS = It Would Lead to the Believer Sinning & Rejoicing in Sin

OSS =
Once Saved, Saved
(if you are once saved, you are saved!)
Eternal Security

Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? let it not be so; we who died to sin, how shall we any longer live therein?
You quote a piece of scripture that knocks away your false doctrine why did you not finish the chapter Rom 6
You don't believe vs 3 [SUP]3 [/SUP]Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
How can you believe vs 4 [SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
According to your doctrine there is no way you can make it to vs 16,17,18,
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

[SUP]17 [/SUP]But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.(have you obeyed that form of doctrine?)

[SUP]18 [/SUP]Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Go back read the whole chapter brother and meditate on these verses
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

[SUP]23 [/SUP]For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.




Romans indicates that the canard vs eternal security goes back at least to Paul's time when he wrote Romans.

So we may hear unsaved persons, who never do anything but sin, who are described in lurid detail in Romans 1, having the gall to object to eternal security in Christ, on the grounds that it would lead to sin.
But the love of Christ constrains the believer. Being secure in Christ has never made me want to sin. If you want to stir up sin, preach the heresy of salvation by keeping the commandments. Commandments stir up sin like a sign that says, "Don't spit here."
[h=3]Romans 1:5[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]5 [/SUP]By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:




It needs to ring home that the Lord Jesus is the Savior. He saves from sin; we cannot stop ourselves from sinning. If you seriously want to stop sinning, the only way is by trusting the Savior who can make you over again, give you new birth with a new godly nature that loves the things of the Lord.
Rom 6
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For he that is dead is freed from sin.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:(were you baptized into his death?)

[SUP]9 [/SUP]Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

[SUP]14 [/SUP]For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.




Eternal Security implies that the Lord Jesus saves me both from sin and damnation, also from my incurably sinful Adamic nature. The one who trusts Christ with his eternal destiny receives a new nature that abhors sin.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
If you would be free of sin, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.
Trust Him wholly with your eternal destiny.
But if you really want to continue in sin, continue to reject eternal security in Christ -- keep on refusing to trust Him wholly with your future. Be a self-righteous Pharisee who needs no Savior.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For he that is dead is freed from sin.
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish
.
stop quoting little pieces of scripture, it looks as if you are the one giving eternal life
May the Good Lord open your eyes to the truth brother...The name of our Lord Jesus Christ be praised forever
 
Mar 28, 2014
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You don't establish that something is the only in the Bible by finding a verse that says it is the only, what you do is observe that it is the only. Mary is the only mother of Jesus, but no verse says "Mary is the only mother of Jesus."

A million and one verses citing believe / faith, all very good scripture ...i give you one
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,212
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If a man's 18 yr old son will lay on his bed every morning and call out to his dad 'hey pops can you please come teach me how to walk this morning' will you not assume something is wrong?
He has already laid out the plan to follow brother
2 Pet 1
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
[SUP]3 [/SUP]According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
All I am saying Brother is just watch out before long you might think you know it and not call on daddy and need to be buffeted, is this likely being in unredeemed flesh?
[h=3]2 Corinthians 12:7-9[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]7 [/SUP]And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. [SUP]8 [/SUP]For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. [SUP]9 [/SUP]And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me

A man has got to know his own limitations you think?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,212
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If a man's 18 yr old son will lay on his bed every morning and call out to his dad 'hey pops can you please come teach me how to walk this morning' will you not assume something is wrong?
He has already laid out the plan to follow brother
2 Pet 1
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
[SUP]3 [/SUP]According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
oh and that never fall part is done in and by Belief trusting God and none other Brother. If you learn to walk and then walk on your own great, and before long you be walking without the Love of daddy
[h=3]1 Corinthians 13:1-3[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

13 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. [SUP]2 [/SUP]And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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I commend you NewB for quoting the Word. The entrance of God's Word brings light.

Indeed, it is well to give diligence to make your calling and election sure.

It is well to ask oneself, "Do I really trust the Crucified, loving, Savior with my eternal destiny; or have I written Him off as a sufficient Savior, thinking "something in my hand I bring"?

If somehow anyone thinks that he might end up in the Lake of Fire, he is not trusting the Savior.
And that election sure is when:
[h=3]Romans 8:16[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]16 [/SUP]The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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Yahoooo!! it don't matter if I sin, cause I was baptized when I was 6 years old. Thank you God ( while I'm cheating on my wife ). Never knew it was so good. I am secure.
I know you know, yet have to say, thank you for putting up with me Brother

That Kerry would be ignoring God and not loving neighbor (wife) as God has loved us all by the cross. That is taking grace for granted and using Christ as an escape Goat.
God Forbid, i know you know and where being infectious in Humor. so waht does the word say about this

Hebrews 2:3 how shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
Hebrews 10:28 He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

Does this mean we are to do the Law? Or are we to get in deeper trust for God to love through us to all, as in 1 Cor. 13:4-7?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,212
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Yahoooo!! it don't matter if I sin, cause I was baptized when I was 6 years old. Thank you God ( while I'm cheating on my wife ). Never knew it was so good. I am secure.
not if taking god for granted and using God for an excuse to sin, as you just said here.
so Kerry is God Faithful if I take God for granted to show me where I left the tracks, got derailed?
If one does believe, think they will listen, maybe not right away, but is God Faithful, to Kerry on the good work?
Has God been faithful to you to get you to quit certain things you not want to do, yet still do certain things you not want to do
For what a wretched man I am, what i wiush to do, I do not, and what I hate that I do
Could it be our self pride in our way, the "I" got to or else God will punish me in the lake of fire and so we do not do what we want being aware of sin, trying not to sin.

Who is the only one that can and does save us from this body of sin and death? Only, do I need to get my eye (I) out od the way and be dead to self
In Christ we are Eternally secure. for walk by the hidden man of our hearts that are new given to us by God and we will not do the things of the flesh that destroys, kills and steals ones joy in the Holy Spirit of truth from God
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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Using the "Nacho Method" and OSAS, we can save the world:p.
I Only Believe In Science (from Nacho Libre) - YouTube


No, I don't think salvation is a joke, but I don't agree at all with the OSAS teaching.
From the view you are viewing from at it, I agree, yet OSAS is true from God to us to carry on the good work on make us stand, those that beleive
This i know for god told me so, and I do not take it for granted, rather appreciate this grace deeply, and so by faith I walk as Christ walked in love to all, led by Father by the Holy Spirit of truth
And this is available to all. It starts with belief and remain it belief
Such as instead of please, please, please Father or Jesus or God whatever.
How about thank you, thank you, thank you, I do not know how or understand how, but I do believe you Lord and do know, not how, nor care how anymore, I know you will see me through to the end, "I" believe
That is what is prominent through out the word to beleive and then we will do as the result of belief as Abraham did and Noah, and Job and king David and many other Patriarchs for our edification
Thank you Father, I know not how, yet I believe you are Faithful, and so I believe in you to the end
Love you because you first loved me and all, how can one not love when they see your love through Son Christ?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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Dear Kerry,
you cannot be saved without being saved. If the Son shall make you free, you shall be free indeed. Water baptism is not required for salvation; and in fact those who trust water baptism for salvation, indicate a failure to trust the Lord Jesus as only & sufficient Savior.
Yet Brother water Baptism is a good conscience towards God and can be privately done, which is what i suggest to keep secret between god and you who knows all secrets, and will openly reward you, and not of the things of this earth, rather life secured and sealed up by god himself, yep I said Eternal security from God to us to appreciate deeper than the Mississippi
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
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Does Denial of Eternal Security Lead to a Sinful Life?

As mentioned, the old Canard about Eternal Security promoting sin has its counterpart at least to the time of Romans, "Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?" Some old legalists must have attacked Paul with that one.

There are some passages which teach that a lifestyle of gross sin indicates one is heading for a destiny in the Lake of Fire. For example in Ephesians:

But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as becomes saints; nor filthiness, nor foolish talking, or jesting, which are not befitting: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know of a surety, that no fornicator, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no man deceive you with empty words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the sons of disobedience.

Consider then the practical results of the doctrine:

For Eternal Security, before a gross sin becomes a lifestyle, the ES man should know that he faces chastisement which will successfully stop the sin as a lifestyle. And the ES man knows that this chastisement can be grievous. Moreover, the love of Christ constrains him -- how can I sin against such great love?

It is for chastening that ye endure; God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father chasteneth not? But if ye are without chastening, whereof all have been made partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. Furthermore, we had the fathers of our flesh to chasten us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed good to them; but he for our profit, that we may be partakers of his holiness. All chastening seemeth for the present to be not joyous but grievous; yet afterward it yieldeth peaceable fruit unto them that have been exercised thereby, even the fruit of righteousness.

But for the antagonist of Eternal Security, doing sin could result in the conclusion that one "lost his salvation" with the possibility of quickly getting "salvation" back in at any time with no fear of chastening. For only saved persons are chastised, so he has no chastisement to fear. Thus if he sins in some way and loses salvation, there will be no chastisement. What is to stop the Arminian from reasoning?: Well I'm going to go and sin some big sin, there will be no chastisement, but then I will repent afterwards and get "saved" again. Easy come, easy go.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
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You don't establish that something is the only in the Bible by finding a verse that says it is the only, what you do is observe that it is the only. Mary is the only mother of Jesus, but no verse says "Mary is the only mother of Jesus."

A million and one verses citing believe / faith, all very good scripture ...i give you one
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
The forum system can't even receive (in one post) all the scripture I have to post on faith saving.

Note that after "baptized" it does not say "in water."
Note the 2nd part: Baptized was left out!
It does not say, "but he that is not baptized shall be damned."

Baptized is not something a man does, but something done to him.
I baptize you with water [John], but He shall baptize you with the Spirit.

The verses mentioning baptism in a context of salvation are few;
the verses mentioned believe/faith without baptism are many, many.
Thus baptism cannot be something which a man must do to be saved.
Baptism of the Spirit is something always done by God to a man when that man believes.

If you study baptism of the Spirit, you should come to the conclusion that every believer gets that baptism (1 Cor 12:13) and that it puts you into the Body of Christ (the Church) and that it thus puts you on the cross with Christ (co-crucifixion) Rom 6, with the result that the Old Man was crucified when Christ was crucified.

I have been crucified with Christ, and it is no longer I who live but Christ lives in me, and the life which i life in the flesh, I live by faith in the Son of God Who loved me and gave Himself for me. I do not make void the grace of God, for if righteousness is by the law, then Christ died in vain. (see Gal 2)