Should we follow Christ, or follow Christ’s Father or follow a triune God?

[tribesman]

...The law brings a curse on all who do not obey every iota of the law/. Have you done this? Why are you not under a curse and everyone else is? what makes you so special?...

Too good, bro. Useful. Hanx!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That's exactly the problem with pulling His word out of context - or forgetting He said "love the lord your God with all your heart" and "love your neighbor as yourself" through Moses.

yep.

And you ignore what he said in the NT. If you do those two commands. You will not break ANY of the other.

so why do you need to follow the either?

"PS, Why did jesus say A NEW COMMAND I GIVE YOU, if they were already part of the old?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

True worship that glorifies God is to listen to what God says humbly and follow Him. The most important, says scripture, is to love God with all our heart, soul and mind, and others as ourselves.

As far as the Sabbath, to follow Him is to do our work on six days and rest from our work on the seventh, for that has been declared holy. When we listen, that is what scripture says.

Yet jesus worked on the seventh. Guess he broke his own command.

 

[newbirth]

One cannot be under the law and under grace at the same time .It is either grace or the law so choose.

 

[chubbena]

Jesus reiterated in one form or another, 9 of the Ten Commandments. Guess which one He never reiterated? You got it, the only Commandment that GOD specifically said was a sign of the Covenant between HIM and Israel.

Did Jesus then contradict HIMSELF by giving us Heb. 10:25 instead of "KEEP the SABBATH HOLY"? NO, because there is a little known law that states that whenever there is a CHANGE in the Priesthood from one Tribe to another, there is by necessity a Change in the Law.

I don't make statements that I cannot back up with scripture:

Hebrews 7:12-14 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For the one concerning whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no one has officiated at the altar.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, a tribe with reference to which Moses spoke nothing concerning priests.


Jesus is NOT Levite High Priest, HE is OUR HIGH PRIEST from the Tribe of Judah.

You might want to search how many times Sabbath was mentioned in the four gospels and Acts and see how it was deal with. Then come back and let's discuss.

 

[chubbena]

So why does scripture say he is the only one capable of doing it? And the only one who ever did it?

Would you please quote the verse(s) that said so? But before you do, please check the passage to make sure it's not pulled out of context.
And why do you blame it on the law when man himself is to blame?

The law brings a curse on all who do not obey every iota of the law/. Have you done this? Why are you not under a curse and everyone else is? what makes you so special?

Have I done what? Didn't He take our sin upon Himself so we are not under curse? Why are you keep repeating these questions that have already been answered?

well of course not. Non of us can. Anytime we inject "self" into the equation, no matter what we do" we are not only not following this law. but we are carnal and in sin.

Why do you think Paul called himself a wretched man (present tense).

Then what makes your claim of following the law of love better than simply the law?

Sanctification is an ongoing process until we are glorified. Or do you not understand this aspect of Christian maturity?

So why do you keeping asking "Have you done this?"??

 

[chubbena]

yep.

And you ignore what he said in the NT. If you do those two commands. You will not break ANY of the other.

so why do you need to follow the either?

"PS, Why did jesus say A NEW COMMAND I GIVE YOU, if they were already part of the old?

Understanding what He said in the "OT" is not ignoring what He said in the "NT".
The "OT" gives the definition. The definition does not change in the "NT".

Did you read 1 John regarding the new commandment in which He said it's not new?

 

[chubbena]

Yet jesus worked on the seventh. Guess he broke his own command.

Did he work on the Sabbath for a living, did He do groceries and then go to a movie, a ball game or a concert afterwards? Did you not know the priests, Levites, gatekeepers and the like had to work on the Sabbath and were not considered breaking the Sabbath in "OT"?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Did he work on the Sabbath for a living, did He do groceries and then go to a movie, a ball game or a concert afterwards? Did you not know the priests, Levites, gatekeepers and the like had to work on the Sabbath and were not considered breaking the Sabbath in "OT"?

Oh, So not everyone who works on the sabbath is breaking it, And not everyone who does not work is keeping it (for carnal reasons) ? I see how it goes..

So how could we know who is doing it and who is not?

As for Jesus, He said if you need food on the sabaath who is going to turn you away (see david and the showbread) And the rest. those are restful things to me, so how could they be considered breaking the sabbath??

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Understanding what He said in the "OT" is not ignoring what He said in the "NT".
The "OT" gives the definition. The definition does not change in the "NT".

Did you read 1 John regarding the new commandment in which He said it's not new?

Yes, the OT gave the defenition. It also gave the result. "cursed is everyone who does not CONFIRM AND OBEY ALL THESE COMMANDS..

Do you even understand what that means?

and I disagree. The ot does not give the defenition. It gives the requirement "do not bare false witness" and the curse to whoever does breaks that requirement The new testament gives the Defenition. bearing false witness comes from carnality, it is done for self. It can not be done out of love, it can only be done for self. If you live your new nature (as found in the law of love) , you do not have to be told "do not bear false witness" you would never even THINK of doing it, It would be against your very nature.

The law is not there for you. It can not tell you how to do it. All it can do is curse you if you do it. (unless your under grace, in which case, it can no longer curse you)

you have two choices. Under law or under grace, you can not be under both., period!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

[/B]Would you please quote the verse(s) that said so? But before you do, please check the passage to make sure it's not pulled out of context.
And why do you blame it on the law when man himself is to blame?

Who is blaming it on the law? Not me. I am to blame, I can't keep the law as it is required to keep it. For some reason you think you can. The only answer I can come up with as to why is you do not yet understand the law. Or you would not think such a thing.

Have I done what? Didn't He take our sin upon Himself so we are not under curse? Why are you keep repeating these questions that have already been answered?

so the law can not curse you. Good. So why do you want to be under it, when that is ALL IT CAN DO for you?

Are you under law or Grace? make up your mind.

Then what makes your claim of following the law of love better than simply the law?

My claim? or what scripture says? the law is perfect. but I am carnal. How can I know sin unless the law says do not covet? Sin is anything done for self. the law can not help you overcome this.All it can do is tell you how poorly you are at doing this (unless you are like some who are self decieved and think they are doing a good job at it)

Sin is carnality, The law of love is not self focused, it is others focused. That is why it can not break the law. It is not about self.

So why do you keeping asking "Have you done this?"??

Why? Because your claiming we must follow law. I will continue to ask that, until someone shows me they have been perfect since birth, For once you commit that first sin, The law condemns you forever and ever. there is nothing you can do by the law to ever be perfect again, It is too late (which was the reason God gave the law. the schoolmaster. to LEAD US TO CHRIST.

I have been lead to Christ, Have you? I have to ask, because you seem to like to hold yourself under law and do them/. So evidently you have not yet been led to Christ, I can not see it any other way.

 

[chubbena]

Who is blaming it on the law? Not me. I am to blame, I can't keep the law as it is required to keep it.

Good to know.

For some reason you think you can.

By the power of the Spirit we can do anything, can't we?

The only answer I can come up with as to why is you do not yet understand the law. Or you would not think such a thing.

It's not that hard to understand and to obey.

so the law can not curse you. Good. So why do you want to be under it, when that is ALL IT CAN DO for you?

To sin is to be under it. Did you just say you can't keep the law?

Are you under law or Grace? make up your mind.

Yes you too.

My claim? or what scripture says? the law is perfect. but I am carnal. How can I know sin unless the law says do not covet?

If you believe in what you quoted than all is fine.

Sin is anything done for self. the law can not help you overcome this.All it can do is tell you how poorly you are at doing this

Does anyone here say otherwise?

unless you are like some who are self decieved and think they are doing a good job at it)

Just name one here who thinks like that.

Sin is carnality, The law of love is not self focused, it is others focused. That is why it can not break the law. It is not about self.

Yet Galatians 6:4-5 teaches "Each one should test their own actions. Then they can take pride in themselves alone, without comparing themselves to someone else, for each one should carry their own load."
And is the law God spoke through Moses against the law of love which you claim?

Why? Because your claiming we must follow law.

I believe you use the word "follow". I'd rather say to obey what He says i.e. every word that comes from His mouth.

I will continue to ask that, until someone shows me they have been perfect since birth, For once you commit that first sin, The law condemns you forever and ever. there is nothing you can do by the law to ever be perfect again, It is too late (which was the reason God gave the law. the schoolmaster. to LEAD US TO CHRIST.

Who here does not believe the law cannot make one perfect but rather brings one to Christ?

I have been lead to Christ, Have you? I have to ask, because you seem to like to hold yourself under law and do them/. So evidently you have not yet been led to Christ, I can not see it any other way.

You seem to be judging. I am not doing the same to you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

By the power of the Spirit we can do anything, can't we?

yep. And how good are you at following the spirit 24/7?

if you are perfect. You have done something Paul could not do.

It's not that hard to understand and to obey.

is that so? Then why did jesus say if you even look at a woman you have committed adutlry? Why did Jesus say if you even look at a woman with lust you have commited adutlry. If you divorce you have caused you wife to commit adutery. Why did jesus haveto spend almost a whole chapter in matthew showing us how inadequate the law was to show us what it means to actually do what the law says?

To sin is to be under it. Did you just say you can't keep the law?

yep. And that is why I cam to Christ and recieved his gift of salvation.

it did its job. Why do I need it any longer? What can it teach me that I do not already know?

Yes you too.

yes what? are you under law or grace? You can not be under both. Scripture is quite clear on this.

If you believe in what you quoted than all is fine.
Does anyone here say otherwise?Just name one here who thinks like that.

Anyone who thinks the law is still valid in their lives thinks that. For they have not seen how the law still condemns them, and evidently thinks they must be good according to the law (ie pharisees) Now those names as you should know are quite numerous.

Yet Galatians 6:4-5 teaches "Each one should test their own actions. Then they can take pride in themselves alone, without comparing themselves to someone else, for each one should carry their own load."

Testing your own actions is not doing for self. it is doing an examination to see if all you do is for self, or for the benefit of others.

Thats the problem with following law. I can say I never commited adultry, thus I follow the law. Yet every time I have ever looked at a woman with lust, I have done just that (because I am thinking of self) Everytime I take sex from my wife, instead of making love to her, I am sin, because I am doing it for self.

That is th eproblem with law followers. they get a false sens of security that they are doing good and ok. Instead of seeing how totally and wretched they are every day of their lives. (as Paul did)

And is the law God spoke through Moses against the law of love which you claim?

wrong question. the question should be, can the law of moses show us how to do the law of love.

evidently from the OT and Israel, we see if did not do a very good job of that now did it?

why did God give us a better law. if the old law was in itself good enough to do what the new law wants us to do. it must have been flawed correct?

I believe you use the word "follow". I'd rather say to obey what He says i.e. every word that comes from His mouth.

whats the difference between follow and Obey? they are the same are they not?

and again, have you obeyed the law as it requires? (perfection is the standard set by God)

Who here does not believe the law cannot make one perfect but rather brings one to Christ?

I don't know. scripture says once it brings us to christ., the law has done its job and is no longer needed.

so i guess those who claim we must still follow the law have yet to come to christ, would you not agree?

 

[seed_time_harvest]

One cannot be under the law and under grace at the same time .It is either grace or the law so choose.

Hello newbirth
I was wondering if the people who hadn't come to the end of their flesh(I mean they haven't been guided to CHRIST yet) thinking by at least trying to keep the ten that GOD accepts them because they are at least trying,

I think they are really just mixing law and grace....I might be wrong ,but that's what I am thinking.

 

[Dan_473]

No, you honor your own ideas of the Sabbath by doing good in it. God created the Sabbath, to honor it would be to listen to what scripture tells us about the way He created it, and what God wants us to do about it.

I don't understand... I thought we talked earlier about what could be done on the Sabbath was mostly an individual thing... I'll read on, maybe it will become clear in later posts... blessings!

 

[RedTent]

Yet jesus worked on the seventh. Guess he broke his own command.

Your!! Christ did work on the seventh, the Christ I know followed His Father in the way His Father asked Him to on the seventh! I follow Christ as scripture tells me Christ is, not one I think up in my own mind.

 

[Dan_473]

he told us what to do.

1. Love the lord you God with all your heart
2. Love your neighbor as yourself
3. do not worry about loving yourself. Worry about loving others.

do this, Not just on the sabbath but every day, This is true worship we can offer to God. and the only worship which glorifies him.

Sounds right to me... I'm also interested in hearing new ideas, kind of like the Athenians... so I wanted to hear from people with a longer Sabbath list how they got it without being legalistic... blessings

 

[Dan_473]

Exodus 35:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] "You shall not kindle a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath day."


Better walk to Sabbath Church, because you have to kindle a fire in your car's engine just to start it.

How cold does it get in the house before sundown on Saturday, in January?

Hmmm... Interesting point... sounds like a rule that would only work in the middle-east

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Your!! Christ did work on the seventh, the Christ I know followed His Father in the way His Father asked Him to on the seventh! I follow Christ as scripture tells me Christ is, not one I think up in my own mind.

and you think I do not? Who made you judge?

 

[Dan_473]

Maybe, just maybe GOD really meant EXACTLY what He said:

Exodus 31:12-17 (ASV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And Jehovah spake unto Moses, saying,
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily ye shall keep my sabbaths: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am Jehovah who sanctifieth you.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that profaneth it shall surely be put to death; for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day is a sabbath of solemn rest, holy to Jehovah: whosoever doeth any work on the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
[SUP]17[/SUP]It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days Jehovah made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.


ANNUAL AVERAGE TEMPERATURES IN ISRAEL

WEATHER IN ISRAEL

SUMMER (June-early Sept)
Israel temperatures are usually in the high 80's (27C), 90's (32C). Tel Aviv, and Tiberias will be hot and humid (like New York or Miami). Jerusalem is dryer and cooler, particularly at night. Massada & Eilat are extremely hot (possibly above 110F (43C), but dry. Not a drop of rain.

SPRING (late Mar-May) and
AUTUMN (late Sept-Nov)
Daytime Israel temperatures are very pleasant; around 60-70F (15-25C) degrees in most of the country (still hot, though, around the Red Sea and Dead Sea). Jerusalem will be in the 40-50F (5-10C) in the evening. There will be some rain - nothing torrential.

WINTER (Dec-early Mar)
Israels winter weather fluctuates. Some winters are mild and sunny, while some are severe and overcast. There's often heavy rain. In January and February it may even snow in parts of the country. Temperatures range in the 50-60F (10-15C) in most places, but in the 40's (5C) in Jerusalem and the Galilee hills - where it can be very cold at night.


https://giltravel.com/israel-travel-resources/israel-temperatures-weather.html

Wow... data, charts... impressive