Should we follow Christ, or follow Christ’s Father or follow a triune God?
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Bringing all to re-read post 151 for edification sake, even though this subject is a little off topic for this thread.
Romans 1:18-21 (ASV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hinder the truth in unrighteousness;
[SUP]19 [/SUP] because that which is known of God is manifest in them; for God manifested it unto them.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity(Deity can be perceived through the things that are CREATED.); that they may be without excuse:
[SUP]21 [/SUP] because that, knowing God, they glorified him not as God, neither gave thanks; but became vain in their reasonings, and their senseless heart was darkened.
Before you object, screaming "out of context"; remember it is the HOLY SPIRIT Who created the Body of JESUS, in the womb of Mary.
So the impression I'm getting is kind of a 'following the law, keep in' it loose... bein' led by the Spirit'... that sounds good to me! Blessings!
Yes, search without prejudice... as an individual... your findings and choices then an individual thing... blessings!
Matthew 17:
17 Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother, led them up on a high mountain by themselves; [SUP]2 [/SUP]and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Then Peter answered and said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, let us make here three tabernacles: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.”
[SUP]5 [/SUP]While he was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them; and suddenly a voice [God the Father] came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear Him!” [SUP]6 [/SUP]And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their faces and were greatly afraid. [SUP]7 [/SUP]But Jesus came and touched them and said, “Arise, and do not be afraid.” [SUP]8 [/SUP]When they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no one but Jesus only.
May God open your spiritual eyes to really see what is going on here!
17 Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother, led them up on a high mountain by themselves; [SUP]2 [/SUP]and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Then Peter answered and said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, let us make here three tabernacles: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.”
[SUP]5 [/SUP]While he was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them; and suddenly a voice [God the Father] came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear Him!” [SUP]6 [/SUP]And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their faces and were greatly afraid. [SUP]7 [/SUP]But Jesus came and touched them and said, “Arise, and do not be afraid.” [SUP]8 [/SUP]When they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no one but Jesus only.
May God open your spiritual eyes to really see what is going on here!
take into consideration God is a Spirit. The Spirit of God is that Spirit which is God, not another Spirit because there is only one Spirit. The same Spirit that raised Christ from the dead , the same Spirit that dwells in us. The same Spirit that was in Christ.
- 2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Colossians 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.( they share the same spirit)
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[h=3]1 Corinthians 15:24-28[/h]King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
Was Moses God? No, but God spoke to Moses and Moses told us what God said.
Was Elijah God? No, but we are to listen to God through words God gave Him.
Was Christ God? YES!
Does this scripture say to not listen to Moses or Elijah? No! If we listen to our Lord, He guides us to the words of Moses and Elijah. If we won't listen, we are not seeing only Christ.
He said "hear Him" why would you want to listen to anyone else? He guides us to the Father we need to hear and follow. He is the way the truth and the life.
Bare in mind, that the ONLY pure motive for keeping the LAW is purely because we LOVE HIM!
John 14:15 (NIV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] "If you love me, you will obey what I command.
Obedience with motive of trying to rub GOD the right way, so that He does what you want, or gives you what you want; is ONLY a pile of filthy rags. GOD IS NOT A MAGIC GENIE!
John 10:27-28 (HCSB)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
[SUP]28 [/SUP] I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.
That is to HEAR with spiritual ears, spiritual Truths with spiritual understanding; and HIS stating "I know them", is a reference to the born again inner personal LOVE relationship with HIM as LORD and MASTER.
1 Corinthians 2:12-13 (NKJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
what Law are you keeping...I do hope it is...James 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed. (and it is not a pile of filthy rags) Are you stuck in that loop too.
Your theory does NOT square with SCRIPTURE:
John 14:15 (NIV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]"If you love me, you will obey what I command.
Deuteronomy 30:19-20 (ASV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that I have set before thee life and death, the blessing and the curse: therefore choose life, that thou mayest live, thou and thy seed;
[SUP]20 [/SUP] to love Jehovah thy God, to obey his voice, and to cleave unto him; for he is thy life, and the length of thy days; that thou mayest dwell in the land which Jehovah sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.
1 John 5:3 (NIV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
Matthew 22:36-38 (NIV)
[SUP]36 [/SUP] "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?"
[SUP]37 [/SUP] Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'
[SUP]38 [/SUP] This is the first and greatest commandment.
1 John 3:14 (ESV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers. Whoever does not love abides in death.
John 14:24 (NIV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
Romans 5:5 (ESV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.
1 Corinthians 16:22 (NKJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] If anyone does not love the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be accursed. O Lord, come!
1 John 4:8 (HCSB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] The one who does not love does not know God, because God is love.
NO, HE teaches us to understand the spiritual truths in Scriptures, and one of those things IS THE DOCTRINE OF THE HOLY TRINITY. HE MAKES THE SCRIPTURES COME ALIVE as we READ THEM; and HE GIVES US A HUNGER TO UNDERSTAND MORE THAN THE PRINT ON THE PAGE.
I like when you underline and emphasize, but I do resent it when the underlining becomes shouting, not explaining, and yours sounds like shouting.
I didn't say that we are not to obey out of love, you misunderstand what I said. But we obey because we were created by God, because God gave us instructions so we live our life here in abundance and good, because God loves us and what comes to us from God is from His love, because God says we are least in the Kingdom when we disobey and greatest when we do and on and on. It isn't ONLY love, but for SO many reasons INCLUDING that we love Him.
The scriptures you posted are such a blessing for us, aren't they?
Sorry it looked that way, but I don't believe in SHOUTING in my posts, as I am way to old to be into that. In my experience it seems to be ONLY younger generations that use large letters and colored fonts to SHOUT. (I do like colors tho. I was into colored highlighters so much after I was saved in 1978, that I had to purchase a new study bible after only about 10 years of using my the first one. That was because it was so marked up with several different colors of highlighters, that it was getting hard to read.) I only use the colors and larger font sizes now to emphasize the part of a verse that is pertinent to validating my point.
My point was about MOTIVES for KEEPING the LAW, and I absolutely believe with my whole heart that GOD only considers obedience done out of LOVE, to be the only pure motive, worthy of reward; and that attempting to manipulate GOD for personal reasons that contain NO LOVE is totally unworthy and unacceptable to GOD.
Isaiah 64:6 (NKJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But we are all like an unclean thing, And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags; We all fade as a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, Have taken us away.
I also believe wholeheartedly in letting Scripture interpret Scripture, as the Bereans set the example for us.
Acts 17:11 (NIV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
THEY KNEW GOD DOES NOT CONTRADICT HIMSELF, thus Scripture interpreting Scripture is a FAR BETTER way to discern Truth than human opinions.
I sincerely believe GOD searches the hearts of all mankind for the motive of all supposed good works and obedience. Therefore, those done out of LOVE will be rewarded, and those done for some other MOTIVE will be burned up and NOT rewarded. THUS, it is not that we obey, but rather WHY we obey, that GOD is rewarding.
1 Chronicles 28:9 (ESV)
9 “And you, Solomon my son, know the God of your father and serve him with a whole heart and with a willing mind, for the LORD searches all hearts and understands every plan and thought. If you seek him, he will be found by you, but if you forsake him, he will cast you off forever.
Revelation 2:23 (ESV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] and I will strike her children dead. And all the churches will know that I am He who searches mind and heart, and I will give to each of you according to your works.
Psalm 7:8-10 (NIV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] let the LORD judge the peoples. Judge me, O LORD, according to my righteousness, according to my integrity, O Most High.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] O righteous God, who searches minds and hearts, bring to an end the violence of the wicked and make the righteous secure.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] My shield is God Most High, who saves the upright in heart.
1 Corinthians 3:12-15 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Only those works done for the right motive, will be rewarded.
It may be possible to be saved even if none of that person's works are rewarded (such as a deathbed confession). But even if it is possible for a real Christian to somehow be deceived and do all of his works for the wrong motive; that would be a scary position to be in, because it would be such a very, very fine line from falling for FALSE GOSPEL or FALSE CHRIST. That I would think no Christian should ever want to be that close to being LOST FOREVER, as these will be:
Matthew 7:21-23 (NKJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
[SUP]23 [/SUP] And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
That "I never knew you" is referring to the born again, inner personal LOVE relationship of receiving Him as LORD and Master. NOTICE those who HE is rejecting, think they are Christians, and they did lots of works, but were missing that LOVE relationship. They are those who entered the broad gate, instead of the narrow gate of Receiving HIM as LORD, submitting out of Love to HIM as Master.