It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

Atwood · Jun 21, 2014

Re: Does the Lord Keep His Appointments.

You manifest the mentality of an unsaved person who does not love the Lord. my security in my Savior leads to gratitude & loving obedience, not to want to sin. I suppose an unsaved person might think the way you post. I suppose if your children sin, you will go and roast them in a fire. You want them to defecate in their pants when you come around and hide in the bushes.

I obey Christ because He loves me -- His love constrains me. Or course he loves me enough to chastise me also, if I need it. I want a reward to cast it at His feet and worship Him with it, Revelation 4-5. I want to be one of them casting down their golden crowns (victor's wreaths) around the glassy sea.

Yes, get eternal life now. Now is the day of salvation.

Thou shalt call HIs name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

An attitude of not trusting the Lord Jesus for eternal life, leads to the Lake of Fire.

Atwood · Jun 21, 2014

nl said:

Your just say it nl. You have not Bible proof. How can someone trust the Lord Jesus as Savior & not trust Him as Savior? That is self-contradictory.

Quote some context:

"as when I was present the second time, so now, being absent, to them that have sinned heretofore, and to all the rest, that, if I come again, I will not spare; seeing that ye seek a proof of Christ that speaketh in me; who to you-ward is not weak, but is powerful in you: for he was crucified through weakness, yet he liveth through the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but we shall live with him through the power of God toward you. Try your own selves, whether ye are in the faith; prove your own selves. Or know ye not as to your own selves, that Jesus Christ is in you? unless indeed ye be reprobate. But I hope that ye shall know that we are not reprobate."

This is not addressed to new believers, nor does it tell new believers they have no assurance of salvation. To be saved you need to trust the Lord Jesus as Savior, which implies you are sure He is saving you. You are making something up not in scripture. If men are particularly into sin, they should examine themselves, yes.

Yes, there are things that aid assurance of salvation like loving the brethren.

Excellent statements.

The story goes on to say that salvation with man is impossible, but with God all things are possible. We must rightly divide God's word, as well as believe it all.

But the disciples had already followed Him before that, going back to the baptism by John the Baptist of the Lord Jesus; see John 2.

Salvation is not to be confused with discipleship. While salvation is free, discipleship requires all our resources.

Atwood · Jun 21, 2014

just-me said:

Don't stop at verse 6, quote through vs 9, where the passage is explained.

it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. For the land which hath drunk the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them for whose sake it is also tilled, receiveth blessing from God: but if it beareth thorns and thistles, it is rejected and nigh unto a curse; whose end is to be burned. But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak:

newbirth · Jun 21, 2014

Re: Eternal Security Goes Along w/ Salvation by Faith, Not Works

Atwood said:

And you feel so comfortable you stop reading so you never get to
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

[SUP]12 [/SUP]For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

[SUP]13 [/SUP]Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

[SUP]14 [/SUP]That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

[SUP]15 [/SUP]But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

[SUP]16 [/SUP]From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,

[SUP]18 [/SUP]Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]But ye have not so learned Christ;

[SUP]21 [/SUP]If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:

[SUP]22 [/SUP]That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

[SUP]23 [/SUP]And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

[SUP]24 [/SUP]And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

[SUP]25 [/SUP]Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

[SUP]26 [/SUP]Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:

[SUP]27 [/SUP]Neither give place to the devil.

[SUP]28 [/SUP]Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.

[SUP]29 [/SUP]Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

[SUP]30 [/SUP]And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

[SUP]31 [/SUP]Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:

[SUP]32 [/SUP]And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

And these are your words...
"We are not going to establish ourselves before God by our human efforts, straining to obey commandments. If it is to be done, God Himself will do it."

are you telling God he has to do these things for you?

Kerry · Jun 21, 2014

People go for this eternal security lie because they are living in sin and don't know what else to do. So they say well I accepted Christ therefore no matter what I do I'm good to go. Most are bound by tobacco or alcohol or pornography and they don't know what to do with it. They know it's wrong and can't understand why their doing it so they twist the scripture to justify their actions.

kennethcadwell · Jun 21, 2014

You can only show them as I have multiple times how Jesus said of ways one could be cast out even though they believe they are saved. And how you can not keep sinning thinking you no longer have to repent of them, and what the bible means by a willful sinner. That and the scriptures that speak of loosing, falling away, and being deceived into taking away that salvation.

Kerry said:

Atwood · Jun 21, 2014

The Claim that Some had Salvation & Others Eternal Life

Someone had the nerve to claim that some persons had salvation, like all men had salvation, but not all have eternal life, like there were 2 different groups that way.

"Therefore I endure all things for the elect’s sake, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory."

This passage apparently indicates:

that there is this select group of the elect, but many of them have not yet been saved, because they have not yet trusted Christ as their savior -- but inasmuch as they are elect, they will eventually; and the means is ordained as is the outcome.

That verse discourages the preposterous claim. And I know of no verse that says all men have salvation. If they did, this scripture would make no sense:

"Sirs, what must I do to be saved. Believe of the Lord Jesus [Christ] and you shall be saved."

You can say that all men get some temporary blessings from the Lord, like "the rain falls on the just and the unjust," yes. Men in general are saved from instant damnation, getting a time in which they may trust Christ as Savior.

Atwood · Jun 21, 2014

kennethcadwell said:

It is noted that you didn't prove a thing, no scripture Kenneth. I can't recall you ever proving any of your claims.

I am aware that scripture teaches that some think they need no salvation, instead, they think they can save themselves by their good works. The Pharisee claimed to be righteous; he wasn't seeking salvation at all; he wanted validation of his works.

Pretenders can indeed be cast out, those who brag about the great things they did in Christ's name. But I don't know what "Jesus said" item you refer to by "believe they are saved."

But believing one is saved is not the point. The point is

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ & you shall be saved.

Now what have you got against that? Do you even believe in the concept of salvation?

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

Atwood · Jun 21, 2014

Kerry said:

Well Kerry, you deny eternal security, scorn it, & mock those who trust Christ as Savior.

So what you blame for your sin? You can't blame in now on trusting Christ as Savior, which is what eternal security means.

Atwood · Jun 22, 2014

Re: Eternal Security Goes Along w/ Salvation by Faith, Not Works

newbirth said:

I am telling you, not God what His word teaches:
If you are going to be established before God, it will be by God Himself, not by you or me.

Salvation is of YHWH.

Why do you want to do good works? do you want to establish your self-righteousness?
But if anyone wants to do good works, He is advised to abide in fellowship with Christ; then the fruit will come; and one is advised to walk by the Spirit, because good works are fruit of the Spirit (Gal 5).

But before all that, one needs to despair of one's good works, confess one is a vile sinner, and trust the Lord Jesus as Savior. Then one becomes created in Christ Jesus for good works.

Cassian · Jun 22, 2014

Re: Eternal Security Goes Along w/ Salvation by Faith, Not Works

Atwood said:

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Hogwash. Speaking of straw men you grasp at exegetical straws.

By no means is this about any general salvation that is distinguished from eternal life. Those who do the works in Eph 2:10 are those whom He recreated in salvation, not the general populace. The ones to do the good works are those who trusted Christ as Savior. "By grace you have been saved through faith." Only the born again children of God who are also the saved have faith in Christ. That cannot refer to all men. Notice that the you stays the same throughout the passage, these are Christian believers, the saved. And this special group of you is also called we. The you / we is a special group, the general populace is the sons of disobedience.

This is no salvation for the sons of disobedience. This is the his people: Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins. You make a satanic confusion. To be saved is to have eternal life. By grace you have been saved through faith. God so loved the world that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have eernal life. Those who trust Christ as Savior are alternatively saved or have eternal life.

"And you did he make alive, when you were dead through your trespasses and sins, wherein you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the powers of the air, of the spirit that now works in the sons of disobedience; among whom we also all once lived in the lusts of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest:— but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus: that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward we in Christ Jesus: for by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not of works, that no man should glory. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them."

You have convinced me that you know very little about what scripture actually teaches. You are conflating what Christ accomplished for mankind with the purpose of why He saved mankind.
You have bought the false doctrines of men which have been pointed out to you before. YOu will continue to flounder and misinterpret scripture at every turn because the false doctrines you hold and superimpose upon scripture prevent you from understanding.

You still do not understand that a believer is in a covenantal relationship, rather than a forced arrangement that you keep posturing.

Kerry · Jun 22, 2014

Atwood said:

I blame it on me and ask God to forgive me by the cross. Because I know it's not His fault but mine. Then I say Lord, you have taught me a lesson. That I should always place my faith in the work of the cross and nothing I do.

kennethcadwell · Jun 22, 2014

I was talking about the many other blogs on this same issue that most of us have been to. I showed plenty of scriptures and even a history of the church study that showed how the early church led by the Apostles Peter and Paul teachings did not for almost 500 years teach OSAS. They taught one could loose salvation. It wasn't tell Calvin and his followers this philosophy got started. Even Augustine's perseverance of the saints did not totally agree with OSAS, he split believers into two categories. One group did have the once saved always saved election, the other group had to persevere or loose it.

Atwood said:

Atwood · Jun 22, 2014

Ye Olde Salvation Appointment

"God did not appoint us not to wrath, but unto the obtaining of salvation" - 1 Thes 5:9

Faithful is he who calls you, who will also do it. - 1 Thes 5:22

For whom he
foreknew, he also
foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom he
foreordained, them he also
called: and whom he
called, them he also
justified: and whom he justified, them he also
glorified. - Rom 8

Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
For He shall save His people from their sins.

SeaBass · Jun 22, 2014

Re: OSS - Depends on the Lord, Not the Christian

Atwood said:

You're still not getting that 2 Thess 3:3 is about the group Christian. God does not establish and guard certain individuals unconditionally. God establishes and guards those that are CONDITIOANLLY a Christian. Paul would not be saying these words to those Thessalonians if they were not in the group "Christian". If one fell from the group "Christian" he would no longer be established or guarded, for again, it is the GROUP that established and guarded and NOT the individual unconditionally (outside the group).

Atwood · Jun 22, 2014

Ye Olde Ultimate Food Chain, A Chain Reaction

The Golden Rom 8 Food Chain:

For whom he
foreknew, he also
foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom he
foreordained, them he also
called: and whom he
called, them he also
justified: and whom he justified, them he also
glorified. - Rom 8

The unbreakable chain:

foreknew >foreordained >called >justified >glorified.

You can get in on this food chain but one way:

We are justified by faith in Christ. You can be sure you are in this chain reaction by faith.

Trust the Lord Jesus as your Savior.
faith, believe on the Son of God.

"yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh shall be justified." - Gal 2

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

John 6:40
For this is the will of my Father, that every one that beholdeth the Son, and believes on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Atwood · Jun 22, 2014

Re: OSS - Depends on the Lord, Not the Christian

Originally Posted by Atwood

"But the Lord is faithful, who shall establish you, and guard you from evil."- 2 thes 3:3

Why that's not fair, is it? I mean you had rather hold on by your toenails & get the glory for yourself?

The Lord shall establish the believer -- no ifs ands or buts. And He will guard the believer from evil. If you believe now, your future is sure.

That's called OSS = Once saved, Saved! aka, having it made in the shade! better, in the light!

Eternal Security.

You see He is a 1st class Savior, the only Savior. He saves the ones He saves (duh).

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

Is that all right with you?

Would it help to recite it 100 times a day until it sinks in?

He shall save His people from their sins.

Now how do you become a "His people"?
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, & you shall be saved.

Though you takes it on the chins,
You shall be saved from sins.

Now you grin & bear a thing or two,
But you never end up in the stew.

He shall save His people from their sins.

SeaBass said:

Good morning SeaBass.
Unfortunately for your theory, the scripture does not say it; you invent a canard to prevent yourself from trusting the Lord Jesus as Savior. You give no scripture for a "conditionally guarded," which would be not be a guarding from damnation. You invent things not there. And you oppose your own salvation.

The idea that persons are saved as groups to the exclusion of members of that group is nonsense. If the group is saved, the individuals in the group are saved. But we see individuals saved in the Bible, like the Philippian jailer: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou (individual) shalt be saved."

There are no conditions affixed to the guarding. He establishes individuals one at a time as they trust Christ as Savior, and also guards them individually. You don't find the Lord groups and saving them from in groups in the gospels or Acts. The invitation goes to individuals: "That whosoever believes" "Whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

For your own good, Seabass, you need to stop trying to refrain from categories and theories to explain away the plain teaching of the Word of God.

"But the Lord is faithful, who shall establish you, and guard you from evil."- 2 thes 3:3

Eternal Security.

He is an effective Savior, the only Savior. He saves the ones He saves.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

recite it 1000 times a day until it sinks in?

He shall save His people from their sins.

He shall save His people from their sins.

2Thewaters · Jun 22, 2014

No such thing as eternal security yet
God said to fight so that your crown wont get taken
we have an eternal God fighting for us
as long as you are faithful you will not loose

but you have not decided on the mark of the beast yet

if you take the mark of the beast
the name of the beast
or the number of the beast
you will go to the lake of fire
that is the promise

until you make that choice you are not secure.

We will all see who we worship
God or the pope.

Atwood · Jun 22, 2014

Re: Eternal Security Goes Along w/ Salvation by Faith, Not Works

Originally Posted by Atwood

Hogwash. Speaking of straw men you grasp at exegetical straws.

By no means is this about any general salvation that is distinguished from eternal life. Those who do the works in Eph 2:10 are those whom He recreated in salvation, not the general populace. The ones to do the good works are those who trusted Christ as Savior. "By grace you have been saved through faith." Only the born again children of God who are also the saved have faith in Christ. That cannot refer to all men. Notice that theyou stays the same throughout the passage, these are Christian believers, the saved. And this special group of you is also called we. Theyou / we is a special group, the general populace isthe sons of disobedience.

This is no salvation for the sons of disobedience. This is the his people: Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins. You make a satanic confusion. To be saved is to have eternal life. By grace you have been saved through faith. God so loved the world that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have eernal life. Those who trust Christ as Savior are alternatively saved or have eternal life.

"And you did he make alive, when you were dead through yourtrespasses and sins, wherein you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the powers of the air, of the spirit that now works in the sons of disobedience; among whom wealso all once lived in the lusts of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest:— but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he lovedus, even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus: that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness towardwe in Christ Jesus: for by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not of works, that no man should glory. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them."

Cassian said:

That is just you pontificating Cassian; thus saith Cassian. It proves nothing. So that's what you say. There are 2 groups in Eph 2, and the salvation is about those who have faith in the Lord Jesus, not any general population. Here is what God's Word says:

for by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not of works, that no man should glory. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them."

Atwood · Jun 22, 2014

kennethcadwell said:

The doctrine of OSS = Once saved, Saved! is in the Word of God, over & over.

As to Early Church History after the NT (mostly only the selection of what the RCC has preserved), it is clear that there were many heretics. Is it not true that at the time of Athanasius (Contra Mundum), there were hardly any leaders in the Roman Empire ecclesiastical hierarchy who were not heretics as opposed to the Trinity or to the Theanthropic Union in Christ (2 natures, one person)? I posted a bunch of references to the wide spread believe in universalism among the "Church Fathers," which surely implies eternal security.

I have plastered this thread with verses that teach OSS (once saved, saved). So your 500 year theory is wrong.

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]Shall you go & recite these verses 100 times until they sink in?

"Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins."

"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish."[/FONT]

It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

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