It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[kennethcadwell]

Atwood that would be where you are wrong, and I am not adding what isn't there. You say it is talking about truth not salvation. But guess what, only through Christ is salvation. And what does Jesus Christ say, " I am the way, the truth, and the light."

Sowandering from the truth is wandering from salvation.

Kenneth, you are adding things not in the text. The saving here is "save a soul from death," which I take to be physical death (Save a soul from death = save a person from death); see above context on a Christian who is sick apparently because of his sin.

The issue is wandering or erring from truth, not falling away from salvation.

"My brethren, if any among you err from the truth, and one convert him; let him know, that he who converteth a sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall cover a multitude of sins."


The issue is a man erring or wandering from the truth, not from salvation. There is nothing about losing salvation here. Also, the word "lose" does not occur.

Your post is another example where someone finds a verse that says something that the person deems inconsistent with eternal security, but not actually on the topic at all. Then one invents inferences not in the text.

"I shall dwell in the House of the Lord forever."
If you would do that, trust the Lord Jesus with your eternal destiny.
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I do not contradict Paul. For even Jesus stated there will be different groups of people who receive the good news.

Some will accept it

Some will accept it for a while, but then fall away ( lose what they had ) """hince no once saved always saved here"""

Some will accept but not do

Some will hear but refuse the truth

So how many gospels did Paul say there were?

One?
Two?
Three?

Last I read. Paul said if ANYONE teach a gospel which is different (in type) than what he taught, let them be accursed.

There is one way to heaven, Not many ways.

Only one of the group of people Jesus spoke of were actually saved. Some were far from being saved. Some had a momentary belief in it. Others believed for awhile. But after awhile. As scripture said, A dog returns to his own vomit.

 

[kennethcadwell]

I have gave tons of scriptural proof in the past, but if you want scriptural proof. Read the parable about the sower and the seed. It explains each group I mentioned.

Kenneth are you aware that you are just saying things with no scripture to prove it?

People become professed Christians & then apostatize.
1 John 2 says that if they are real believers they do not apostatize, but their departure proves they were never part of the Body of Christ. If you read this thread, you must have read the scripture now.

 

[Atwood]

Once again yes he is talking about having true faith. You can not fall away and have to be turned back if you were not part of something in the first place.

Just like in human standard situation...you can not be rehired for a job if you did not get hired and lose that job to began with. You had to have the job first.

Kenneth, you are making things up. No scripture. Yes, you can be a professor and join a group on earth without being saved.

Scripture never says that someone is saved and then stops being saved.

John 2 again, sigh:

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they all are not of us.

this is a verse for eternal security. If they had been of us they would have continued with us!

Once you get into the Body of Christ you stay there. No amputations or mutilations of Christ's body are allowed.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Did I say there was more than one gospel...NO

I said there are different groups of people that when they hear the gospel how they receive it depends on their salvation.

Some will accept, some will accept but then fall away, some will accept but say they have to do nothing, some will completely reject it.

So how many gospels did Paul say there were?

One?
Two?
Three?

Last I read. Paul said if ANYONE teach a gospel which is different (in type) than what he taught, let them be accursed.

There is one way to heaven, Not many ways.

Only one of the group of people Jesus spoke of were actually saved. Some were far from being saved. Some had a momentary belief in it. Others believed for awhile. But after awhile. As scripture said, A dog returns to his own vomit.

 

[kennethcadwell]

It does not say OSAS either, but how do you account for the scriptures that talk about those who have fallen away, get what they have taken away, having to persevere to the end to be saved ( not saved automatically ) which like wise matches the scripture that I gave from James. All the warnings of staying firm, not wavering, and holding on to what you have.

I posted awhile back a history of the early church that showed that the early church led by the Apostles Peter, and Paul taught one could lose salvation. The OSAS was not for almost 500 after the early church began. If needs be I will get that and repost it again.

Kenneth, you are making things up. No scripture. Yes, you can be a professor and join a group on earth without being saved.

Scripture never says that someone is saved and then stops being saved.

John 2 again, sigh:

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they all are not of us.

this is a verse for eternal security. If they had been of us they would have continued with us!

Once you get into the Body of Christ you stay there. No amputations or mutilations of Christ's body are allowed.

 

[Atwood]

Atwood that would be where you are wrong, and I am not adding what isn't there. You say it is talking about truth not salvation. But guess what, only through Christ is salvation. And what does Jesus Christ say, " I am the way, the truth, and the light."

Sowandering from the truth is wandering from salvation.

Kenneth,

Your saying it proves it not. Neither can you identify "wandering from the truth" as connected to the I AM statement of the Lord so as to plug His name into every statement about truth. There is a body of doctrine which is truth. The Lord is the ground of that truth indeed. The text does not say, "wander from salvation."

People can accept truth & wander away from the truth. That does not imply salvation at all. You can believe the Trinity and then deny the Trinity. Just believing the Trinity saves no one. Demons can believe the Trinity. A man can believe the Trinity & hate the Trinity. Believing facts is not enough to save anyone. That, IMHO, was an error in some reformed protestant circles. Justification by faith became justification by signing a doctrinal statement.

And a Christian can wander from the truth to some extent without any hint of losing salvation. He may know that he should not forsake the assembly as the manner of some is, yet for a time stop going to church. He may wander from the truth that it is a horrible sin to fornicate, like the guy in 1 cor 6; but such temporary wandering does not imply lack of salvation. Peter wandered from the truth when he denied the Lord, lying to the truth that He was a disciple. But he did not lose faith or his salvation, as Christ had prayed that he would not lose his faith.

You simply cannot find any place in scripture where anyone loses salvation, which is an oxymoron. You impose unnecessary meaning on a verse that says "err from truth" and not "fall from salvation."

Moreover, it is critically important that you actually trust the Lord Jesus with your eternal destiny.

Though shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sins.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Did I say there was more than one gospel...NO

I said there are different groups of people that when they hear the gospel how they receive it depends on their salvation.

Some will accept, some will accept but then fall away, some will accept but say they have to do nothing, some will completely reject it.

I agree. there are differing views.

I disagree in your conclusion.

again. non of them were saved but the one who stayed.

they trusted christ and his promise. are you going to sit there and say one can have complete faith in the promise of christ. lose that faith (even faith of a mustard seed saves) this is not even possible. those people did not have faith. They were like james said. they had mere belief, Beliefe can not sustain someone. It will fade away. because it has no power.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It does not say OSAS either, but how do you account for the scriptures that talk about those who have fallen away, get what they have taken away, having to persevere to the end to be saved ( not saved automatically ) which like wise matches the scripture that I gave from James. All the warnings of staying firm, not wavering, and holding on to what you have.

I posted awhile back a history of the early church that showed that the early church led by the Apostles Peter, and Paul taught one could lose salvation. The OSAS was not for almost 500 after the early church began. If needs be I will get that and repost it again.

How about lets stick with the word of God and not the word of men.

Jesus promised eternal life. NOT conditional life. Those who teach salvation can be lost teach conditional life. And there is no such thing as life eternal (even if they deny they believe this)

This is not found in scripture.

 

[Atwood]

It does not say OSAS either, but how do you account for the scriptures that talk about those who have fallen away, get what they have taken away, having to persevere to the end to be saved ( not saved automatically ) which like wise matches the scripture that I gave from James. All the warnings of staying firm, not wavering, and holding on to what you have.

You quote no verses, Kenneth. There is no scripture that says that persons who were saved stop being saved. The scripture does teach (as in 1 John 2) that believers do perserve. Don't you get it? Eternal security means that the saved perserve. So "having to persevere" is not the issue; the fact is that they do persevere -- if it were a test they pass it.

I posted awhile back a history of the early church that showed that the early church led by the Apostles Peter, and Paul taught one could lose salvation. The OSAS was not for almost 500 after the early church began. If needs be I will get that and repost it again.

And I refuted your claims. Neither Peter nor Paul teach that anyone can lose salvation. Just for fun I just searched the entire ASV (literal translation. The two words "lose" and "salvation" never occur together in any verse of the Bible. What you guys do is take some passage where that is not said, but you give it an unnecessary and faulty interpretation; then claim that it implies losing salvation. And you fail to focus on scripture that says salvation or eternal life.

I give them eternal life, & they shall never perish.
I shall dwell in the House of the Lord forever.

 

[Sinnner]

It is not?

Thats funny, Thats whay John 3 - 6 says. That is what Jude says.

We must have different bibles.

I use The Holy Bible, the Word of the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. The one and true Word of God. You teach to itching ears.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Yes demons do believe in the trinity, but do to their blasphemous and evil works ways they are cast away. Just like the bible compares us to the angels who have left heaven to come down on earth. They were once in heaven, but now are lost and also are set aside for fiery damnation. We are no different the scriptures say from them, if we follow the ways of our Lord but then turn back to the ways of the world and produce bad works we lose that salvation.

Kenneth,

Your saying it proves it not. Neither can you identify "wandering from the truth" as connected to the I AM statement of the Lord so as to plug His name into every statement about truth. There is a body of doctrine which is truth. The Lord is the ground of that truth indeed. The text does not say, "wander from salvation."

People can accept truth & wander away from the truth. That does not imply salvation at all. You can believe the Trinity and then deny the Trinity. Just believing the Trinity saves no one. Demons can believe the Trinity. A man can believe the Trinity & hate the Trinity. Believing facts is not enough to save anyone. That, IMHO, was an error in some reformed protestant circles. Justification by faith became justification by signing a doctrinal statement.

And a Christian can wander from the truth to some extent without any hint of losing salvation. He may know that he should not forsake the assembly as the manner of some is, yet for a time stop going to church. He may wander from the truth that it is a horrible sin to fornicate, like the guy in 1 cor 6; but such temporary wandering does not imply lack of salvation. Peter wandered from the truth when he denied the Lord, lying to the truth that He was a disciple. But he did not lose faith or his salvation, as Christ had prayed that he would not lose his faith.

You simply cannot find any place in scripture where anyone loses salvation, which is an oxymoron. You impose unnecessary meaning on a verse that says "err from truth" and not "fall from salvation."

Moreover, it is critically important that you actually trust the Lord Jesus with your eternal destiny.

Though shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sins.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I use The Holy Bible, the Word of the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. The one and true Word of God. You teach to itching ears.

I teach what Jesus said.

You evidently deny what he said. So you do not follow the true word of God.

 

[kennethcadwell]

The scriptures do not say the saved persevere, it says you must persevere to be saved.

You quote no verses, Kenneth. There is no scripture that says that persons who were saved stop being saved. The scripture does teach (as in 1 John 2) that believers do perserve. Don't you get it? Eternal security means that the saved perserve. So "having to persevere" is not the issue; the fact is that they do persevere -- if it were a test they pass it.



And I refuted your claims. Neither Peter nor Paul teach that anyone can lose salvation. Just for fun I just searched the entire ASV (literal translation. The two words "lose" and "salvation" never occur together in any verse of the Bible. What you guys do is take some passage where that is not said, but you give it an unnecessary and faulty interpretation; then claim that it implies losing salvation. And you fail to focus on scripture that says salvation or eternal life.

I give them eternal life, & they shall never perish.
I shall dwell in the House of the Lord forever.

 

[BradC]

It is just amazing how that people who got saved by grace could attack the very salvation and eternal redemption that Christ came to shed His blood for so that we could receive it freely by faith. I can not imagine the Holy spirit not being grieved in their life.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Jesus did not teach OSAS, he taught you had to persevere to the end to be saved.

I teach what Jesus said.

You evidently deny what he said. So you do not follow the true word of God.

 

[Atwood]

I have gave tons of scriptural proof in the past, but if you want scriptural proof. Read the parable about the sower and the seed. It explains each group I mentioned.

You never gave any proof. And this is a typical post of yours; just saying things.

Parables are not used to prove doctrines but illustrate doctrines, unless the parable is explained. Part of any parable is likely to be just part of the story, not intended to have allegorical meaning. It is particularly futile to try to use a parable to prove something about salvation or eternal life, when neither topic is mentioned in the parable. And any time your try to read into a parable your theory, someone else can come right back and give it a different significance. The point is,
if you want to establish the doctrine of salvation, read what the Bible teaches on the subject, instead of speculating on off-topic things.''

The gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable

 

[Atwood]

It is just amazing how that people who got saved by grace could attack the very salvation and eternal redemption that Christ came to shed His blood for so that we could receive it freely by faith. I can not imagine the Holy spirit not being grieved in their life.

Brad, I don't consider persons who deny that the Lord Jesus is the Savior are saved by grace. They are lost in disgrace. If someone thinks that Christ just gives them a chance at salvation, they are not saved.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus did not teach OSAS, he taught you had to persevere to the end to be saved.

No he did not.

He taught eternal life not conditional life based on persevering.

That passage speaks of persevering in the great tribulation at the end of the age until he returns. and speaks of being saved physically. not eternally.

Try looking at context for a change.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Parables are not used as proof ? Yes they are because they are the words from our Lord Jesus. To say they are not proof is to deny what Jesus said which unfortunately a lot of people do now days. They only go by half of what He said, or they try and say only part of what He said still applies.

You never gave any proof. And this is a typical post of yours; just saying things.

Parables are not used to prove doctrines but illustrate doctrines, unless the parable is explained. Part of any parable is likely to be just part of the story, not intended to have allegorical meaning. It is particularly futile to try to use a parable to prove something about salvation or eternal life, when neither topic is mentioned in the parable. And any time your try to read into a parable your theory, someone else can come right back and give it a different significance. The point is,
if you want to establish the doctrine of salvation, read what the Bible teaches on the subject, instead of speculating on off-topic things.''

The gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable