It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security
- Thread starter Atwood
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Utter heresy; nowhere in the Bible. The end of Isaiah says:
And they shall go forth, and look upon the dead bodies of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
Your because statement is just you saying things again. The unsaved are raised for judgment. Where does Scripture support your because statement?
In Rev 20:13, there is no one said to be found written in the Book of Life.
There has ever been only 1 Church, which does not condemn trusting Christ as Savior at all. But it appears to me that your basis of truth is your denomination, not the Bible. So this is a charade for you. And so you rant on, proving nothing.
Adam has nothing to do with it. He was not saved before the Fall. I don't know any scripture that says if he ever got saved or not. The animal skins leads one to think that he did. But there is nothing about Him losing salvation.
I possess what they Lord has given me. As it is reserved it is guaranteed to me, like money in the bank. The realization of glorification is yet future, but inevitable is one is in the golden chain of Rom 8: foreknew >foreordained >called >justified > glorified.
It does not. You most incredibly make up things or spout your denominational line. Thus saith Cassian. Sola Cassiana. I just checked the ASV with computer. Lose & faith never occur together in any verse (ASV is a literal translation of 1901). Fail & faith occurs together in a Bible verse only one time:
I made supplication for thee, that thy faith fail not;
False, there are rewards given for good works to Christians ("crowns" -- this is not salvation, but rewards).
I already explained reconciliation to you. All things includes demons and satan. It is not salvation, but through-other-izing, katallage.
I have posted a number of times where the Lord Jesus guarantees a man's faith; e.g., Peter's.
Predestination is a Bible topic. We cannot deny that. We don't have to figure it out to be saved.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, & you shall be saved -- no doubt of it, no ifs ands or buts.
In general, God's covenants are generally one-sided; He sets the terms; they are not mutual. Abe was asleep during the ceremony. I know of no obligation to the New Covenant. Look at Jeremiah 31 on the New Covenant & tell me where is the human obligation? The gifts & the calling of God are irrevocable.
(Now the Covenant of Moses has human obligations, which men never came anywhere near performing, and which led to condemnation.)
I have already answered your present tense canard, showing that it is not always the present tense used.
I don't have to guarantee anything, but trust my Savior.
The texts I posted prove eternal security.
I think you have proved only one thing. Eternal security does not exist in your denominational human tradition dogma.
Your theories appear to be a very logical conclusion to regarding your denomination as infallible. I doubt that you care what scripture says.
And they shall go forth, and look upon the dead bodies of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
Your because statement is just you saying things again. The unsaved are raised for judgment. Where does Scripture support your because statement?
In Rev 20:13, there is no one said to be found written in the Book of Life.
There has ever been only 1 Church, which does not condemn trusting Christ as Savior at all. But it appears to me that your basis of truth is your denomination, not the Bible. So this is a charade for you. And so you rant on, proving nothing.
Adam has nothing to do with it. He was not saved before the Fall. I don't know any scripture that says if he ever got saved or not. The animal skins leads one to think that he did. But there is nothing about Him losing salvation.
I possess what they Lord has given me. As it is reserved it is guaranteed to me, like money in the bank. The realization of glorification is yet future, but inevitable is one is in the golden chain of Rom 8: foreknew >foreordained >called >justified > glorified.
It does not. You most incredibly make up things or spout your denominational line. Thus saith Cassian. Sola Cassiana. I just checked the ASV with computer. Lose & faith never occur together in any verse (ASV is a literal translation of 1901). Fail & faith occurs together in a Bible verse only one time:
I made supplication for thee, that thy faith fail not;
False, there are rewards given for good works to Christians ("crowns" -- this is not salvation, but rewards).
I already explained reconciliation to you. All things includes demons and satan. It is not salvation, but through-other-izing, katallage.
I have posted a number of times where the Lord Jesus guarantees a man's faith; e.g., Peter's.
Predestination is a Bible topic. We cannot deny that. We don't have to figure it out to be saved.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, & you shall be saved -- no doubt of it, no ifs ands or buts.
In general, God's covenants are generally one-sided; He sets the terms; they are not mutual. Abe was asleep during the ceremony. I know of no obligation to the New Covenant. Look at Jeremiah 31 on the New Covenant & tell me where is the human obligation? The gifts & the calling of God are irrevocable.
(Now the Covenant of Moses has human obligations, which men never came anywhere near performing, and which led to condemnation.)
I have already answered your present tense canard, showing that it is not always the present tense used.
I don't have to guarantee anything, but trust my Savior.
The texts I posted prove eternal security.
I think you have proved only one thing. Eternal security does not exist in your denominational human tradition dogma.
Your theories appear to be a very logical conclusion to regarding your denomination as infallible. I doubt that you care what scripture says.
K
Revelation 20:12-15
And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.
Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.
Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
Well then, please pardon me for misjudging. Now let me suggest a different approach to you. I am going to argue that the epistles are primary over the "sayings of Jesus," the epistles being just as much Jesus' word as the sayings in the gospels.
Some scripture is written to particular persons & for particular times. Adam was to be a gardener. Noah was to build an ark. Israel was to build a Tabernacle & sacrifice animals. This is called "dispensational" commandments.
Now one big dispensation is the Law. God gave that system only to Israel & it ended at the cross of Christ (He nailed it to the cross).
Now this law was in effect during all of Christ's earthly ministry before the cross. He obeyed the law perfectly, and taught His disciples to follow every jot & tittle, only He explained that it was hierarchical: with love trumping lesser commandments. He rejected religious tradition as an authority in conflict with the Pharisees. We should not regard the Moses Law part of Christ's teaching as binding on the Church, as He fulfilled & abolished the law.
His ministry was almost exclusively to Israel. And there was a special message to His generation, "Repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand." The time was fulfilled for the King to present Himself to Israel as their messiah. They had kingdom promises from the OT, as in 2 Samuel 7. Some of His message was particularly in that context. In Mat 10 there are special missionary rules that I doubt anyone follows today, nor should they. He taught a kind of non-resistance in the Sermon on the Mount. Yet later in Luke He repealed those missionary rules, and advised to buy and get a sword.
In both the Law of Moses and in the teaching of the Lord Jesus there are universal principles of righteousness, like Love God and neighbor. But the default rule for the law is that it is abolished. We can eat shell fish; we don't have to wear fringes on garments.
Likewise, there is much in Christ's earthly teaching that is of course universally binding. But some under the Law & part of His Kingdom message to Israel. Of course all the Bible is God's word and applicable to Christians, but it is not all directly to us.
The Church did not being until Pentecost, Acts 2. If you want the material particularly to the Church, it starts in Acts 2. In particular the epistles are written to the Church. So that is the primary teaching of import to the Church, not the sayings of the earthly Jesus.
All the Bible is breathed out by God and profitable. Thus it is all the Word of Jesus, who is God. But the "sayings of Jesus" in the gospels are not more God's Word than are the epistles. And the epistles are directly written to the Church. So they are more primary than the sayings in the gospels. And I do own 2 coats! In fact, more than that.
Some scripture is written to particular persons & for particular times. Adam was to be a gardener. Noah was to build an ark. Israel was to build a Tabernacle & sacrifice animals. This is called "dispensational" commandments.
Now one big dispensation is the Law. God gave that system only to Israel & it ended at the cross of Christ (He nailed it to the cross).
Now this law was in effect during all of Christ's earthly ministry before the cross. He obeyed the law perfectly, and taught His disciples to follow every jot & tittle, only He explained that it was hierarchical: with love trumping lesser commandments. He rejected religious tradition as an authority in conflict with the Pharisees. We should not regard the Moses Law part of Christ's teaching as binding on the Church, as He fulfilled & abolished the law.
His ministry was almost exclusively to Israel. And there was a special message to His generation, "Repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand." The time was fulfilled for the King to present Himself to Israel as their messiah. They had kingdom promises from the OT, as in 2 Samuel 7. Some of His message was particularly in that context. In Mat 10 there are special missionary rules that I doubt anyone follows today, nor should they. He taught a kind of non-resistance in the Sermon on the Mount. Yet later in Luke He repealed those missionary rules, and advised to buy and get a sword.
In both the Law of Moses and in the teaching of the Lord Jesus there are universal principles of righteousness, like Love God and neighbor. But the default rule for the law is that it is abolished. We can eat shell fish; we don't have to wear fringes on garments.
Likewise, there is much in Christ's earthly teaching that is of course universally binding. But some under the Law & part of His Kingdom message to Israel. Of course all the Bible is God's word and applicable to Christians, but it is not all directly to us.
The Church did not being until Pentecost, Acts 2. If you want the material particularly to the Church, it starts in Acts 2. In particular the epistles are written to the Church. So that is the primary teaching of import to the Church, not the sayings of the earthly Jesus.
All the Bible is breathed out by God and profitable. Thus it is all the Word of Jesus, who is God. But the "sayings of Jesus" in the gospels are not more God's Word than are the epistles. And the epistles are directly written to the Church. So they are more primary than the sayings in the gospels. And I do own 2 coats! In fact, more than that.
K
Ex. 32
32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.
33 And the Lord said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.
34 Therefore now go, lead the people unto the place of which I have spoken unto thee: behold, mine Angel shall go before thee: nevertheless in the day when I visit I will visit their sin upon them.
32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.
33 And the Lord said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.
34 Therefore now go, lead the people unto the place of which I have spoken unto thee: behold, mine Angel shall go before thee: nevertheless in the day when I visit I will visit their sin upon them.
Actually "Catholic" means universal. We deduce its existence from what we read about Church where it refers to the Body of Christ instead of a local assembly. It was founded by the Lord Jesus when He sent the Holy Spirit on Pentecost. I think you have the right understanding of what the Church is.
[quote[And you said do as He tells you and you shall be saved, believe on Him ( also means do as He says )[/quote]
The only saving obedience is to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
But as I have posted, so many many times salvation is offered for just one human condition: Believe or have faith. Thus nothing else can be essential.
Repent = change of mind (metanoia). Saving repentance is a change of mind from not believing to believing in Christ.
Water baptism is what we should do when saved, but it never saves in the Bible. When baptism is associated with salvation, water never occurs. Holy Spirit baptism is salvific, but it is not something done by humans. Human works do not save, & water baptism is a human work.
Confess before men is never a condition of salvation. The "before men" is absent. Confess = homologeo. Homo=same, log = saying. When we trust Christ we must agree with God that He is YHWH. The agreement (confession) is made with God, not men. The passage in Rom 10 is a rare one using confess where it is followed up with "Whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be saved."
To be saved requires only faith in the Savior, but He must be defined adequately. Jesus the mexican mechanic saves no one. He must be approached as YHWH, God become man. LORD in Rom 10:13 refers to Jesus in context, but it is a quote from Joel where the word is YHWH.
So to make a long story short, the confess thing in Rom 10 seems to me to be saying that we agree with God on the definition of the Savior. I take confess in its literal morphological significance as say the same, or agree.
So many many times it is just faith or believe. Thus I interpret the rare exceptions to fit with that.
[quote[And you said do as He tells you and you shall be saved, believe on Him ( also means do as He says )[/quote]
The only saving obedience is to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
But as I have posted, so many many times salvation is offered for just one human condition: Believe or have faith. Thus nothing else can be essential.
Repent = change of mind (metanoia). Saving repentance is a change of mind from not believing to believing in Christ.
Water baptism is what we should do when saved, but it never saves in the Bible. When baptism is associated with salvation, water never occurs. Holy Spirit baptism is salvific, but it is not something done by humans. Human works do not save, & water baptism is a human work.
Confess before men is never a condition of salvation. The "before men" is absent. Confess = homologeo. Homo=same, log = saying. When we trust Christ we must agree with God that He is YHWH. The agreement (confession) is made with God, not men. The passage in Rom 10 is a rare one using confess where it is followed up with "Whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be saved."
To be saved requires only faith in the Savior, but He must be defined adequately. Jesus the mexican mechanic saves no one. He must be approached as YHWH, God become man. LORD in Rom 10:13 refers to Jesus in context, but it is a quote from Joel where the word is YHWH.
So to make a long story short, the confess thing in Rom 10 seems to me to be saying that we agree with God on the definition of the Savior. I take confess in its literal morphological significance as say the same, or agree.
So many many times it is just faith or believe. Thus I interpret the rare exceptions to fit with that.
I wouldn't base much on such a passage, which can be interpreted different ways. Base your salvation on texts that speak to that subject.
I take this one to mean the list of people alive on earth at a given time. Also I am sure that the language is figurative. I could be wrong on the interpretation of this one. But still there is no necessary implication vs eternal security.
Concentrate of the Lord Jesus & depending on him.
I take this one to mean the list of people alive on earth at a given time. Also I am sure that the language is figurative. I could be wrong on the interpretation of this one. But still there is no necessary implication vs eternal security.
Concentrate of the Lord Jesus & depending on him.
K
I understand the concept of the true church. However I was in the Catholic church for 5 years, and I left because of the discrepancies they taught. No Jesus did not start the Catholic church, it was started later after He had already been crucified by Peter and Paul. This is a false statement made by the Catholic church to make them the one true superiority church. Our Lord Jesus started what is known as Christianity, the believers who follow Him. Once again nowhere in the bible does it say catholic church. Like I said it says Christians.
And if you want to get technical then Baptists and Evangelist can make the same claim because those are mentioned in the bible. The word Baptist and evangelism is in the bible, but catholic is not.
Confession is not a condition of salvation? Matthew 10:32-33
The only saving obedience is to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
But as I have posted, so many many times salvation is offered for just one human condition: Believe or have faith. Thus nothing else can be essential.
Repent = change of mind (metanoia). Saving repentance is a change of mind from not believing to believing in Christ.
Water baptism is what we should do when saved, but it never saves in the Bible. When baptism is associated with salvation, water never occurs. Holy Spirit baptism is salvific, but it is not something done by humans. Human works do not save, & water baptism is a human work.
Confess before men is never a condition of salvation. The "before men" is absent. Confess = homologeo. Homo=same, log = saying. When we trust Christ we must agree with God that He is YHWH. The agreement (confession) is made with God, not men. The passage in Rom 10 is a rare one using confess where it is followed up with "Whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be saved."
To be saved requires only faith in the Savior, but He must be defined adequately. Jesus the mexican mechanic saves no one. He must be approached as YHWH, God become man. LORD in Rom 10:13 refers to Jesus in context, but it is a quote from Joel where the word is YHWH.
So to make a long story short, the confess thing in Rom 10 seems to me to be saying that we agree with God on the definition of the Savior. I take confess in its literal morphological significance as say the same, or agree.
So many many times it is just faith or believe. Thus I interpret the rare exceptions to fit with that.[/QUOTE]
And if you want to get technical then Baptists and Evangelist can make the same claim because those are mentioned in the bible. The word Baptist and evangelism is in the bible, but catholic is not.
Confession is not a condition of salvation? Matthew 10:32-33
The only saving obedience is to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
But as I have posted, so many many times salvation is offered for just one human condition: Believe or have faith. Thus nothing else can be essential.
Repent = change of mind (metanoia). Saving repentance is a change of mind from not believing to believing in Christ.
Water baptism is what we should do when saved, but it never saves in the Bible. When baptism is associated with salvation, water never occurs. Holy Spirit baptism is salvific, but it is not something done by humans. Human works do not save, & water baptism is a human work.
Confess before men is never a condition of salvation. The "before men" is absent. Confess = homologeo. Homo=same, log = saying. When we trust Christ we must agree with God that He is YHWH. The agreement (confession) is made with God, not men. The passage in Rom 10 is a rare one using confess where it is followed up with "Whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be saved."
To be saved requires only faith in the Savior, but He must be defined adequately. Jesus the mexican mechanic saves no one. He must be approached as YHWH, God become man. LORD in Rom 10:13 refers to Jesus in context, but it is a quote from Joel where the word is YHWH.
So to make a long story short, the confess thing in Rom 10 seems to me to be saying that we agree with God on the definition of the Savior. I take confess in its literal morphological significance as say the same, or agree.
So many many times it is just faith or believe. Thus I interpret the rare exceptions to fit with that.[/QUOTE]
So Jesus answered and said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but also if you say to this mountain, ‘Be removed and be cast into the sea,’ it will be done. And whatever things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive.” (Matthew 21:21-22)
If you have the faith to wither fig trees and move mountains and have every prayer answered, then I am happy for you. You are better than I am. Otherwise, you might want to fear God more and consider how your faith is not as solid as Jesus said that it could be.
If you have the faith to wither fig trees and move mountains and have every prayer answered, then I am happy for you. You are better than I am. Otherwise, you might want to fear God more and consider how your faith is not as solid as Jesus said that it could be.
K
People, it's all based on your faith in the work of the cross. If your faith is firmly planted there, the your eternity is secure. God will not and cannot accept anything else. If your faith is placed in a doctrine that tells you otherwise, then baste yourself and marinade in the fridge for 4 hours. cause you gonna be cooked.
The only thing God will accept is faith in the cross. His ultimate sacrifice.
If you place faith in what you are doing then your toast. you can lose your salvation if you so choose. But, if you are struggling with sin. Do not listen to this false doctrine. You are struggling with sin because your faith has drifted from the cross to self righteousness. Which is exactly what OSAS is.
Return to your knees at the cross and deliverance will come. Guaranteed.
The only thing God will accept is faith in the cross. His ultimate sacrifice.
If you place faith in what you are doing then your toast. you can lose your salvation if you so choose. But, if you are struggling with sin. Do not listen to this false doctrine. You are struggling with sin because your faith has drifted from the cross to self righteousness. Which is exactly what OSAS is.
Return to your knees at the cross and deliverance will come. Guaranteed.
so are we not saved by grace (undeserved favor) through faith ( the process) the process is always true but only becomes effective when acted upon . If I were to agree with what you say ( I have saving faith then I am saving myself thus being saved by faith) Grace on the other hand saves you(free), through faith is the process that moves you away from that which you were saved from.
Re: Peter Ends 1 Peter Assuring of Eternal Security
This was spoken to CHRISTIANS yet if one falls away from being a Christian then he becomes lost.
1 Cor 6:11 Paul told the Corinthian Christians they had been justified (past tense). Yet still tells them later they can fall, 1 Cor 10:1-12.
--------------------------
Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
"IF" is a conditional word...being glorified is therefore CONDITIONAL upon suffering with Him, one must take up his cross following Christ.
Coffman Commentary on Rom 8:17:
If so be that we suffer with him ...
Here again the great provisional is hurled into the consideration of the Christian's inheritance. "If'" the child of God is faithful, even to the point of suffering with Christ, then, but not otherwise, shall he truly inherit eternal life. Again from Brunner:
24; Emil Brunner, op. cit., p. 73.
Therefore if the Christian does not suffer with Christ, is not identified with Christ/does not remain 'in Christ" then he cannot be JOINT HEIRS with Christ.
This was spoken to CHRISTIANS yet if one falls away from being a Christian then he becomes lost.
1 Cor 6:11 Paul told the Corinthian Christians they had been justified (past tense). Yet still tells them later they can fall, 1 Cor 10:1-12.
--------------------------
Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
"IF" is a conditional word...being glorified is therefore CONDITIONAL upon suffering with Him, one must take up his cross following Christ.
Coffman Commentary on Rom 8:17:
If so be that we suffer with him ...
Here again the great provisional is hurled into the consideration of the Christian's inheritance. "If'" the child of God is faithful, even to the point of suffering with Christ, then, but not otherwise, shall he truly inherit eternal life. Again from Brunner:
We are still only adopted; we have not yet taken over the inheritance. We have been appointed heirs apparent of eternal life and its fulfillment, but we do not yet enjoy it. We have the full assurance of future glory, but we are not yet out of the life where there is suffering and fighting. Indeed, a definite suffering actually belongs to true discipleship. Whoever does not take up his cross and follow him, cannot be his disciple (Matt. 16:24f). He who does not want to suffer with Christ cannot share in his glory either. The way of the Christian is not a path on the heights but down below. The way on the heights is in heaven, not on earth. [SUP]F24[/SUP]
Notice the contrast between the use of "sons of God" (Romans 8:14) and "children of God" here. The latter terminology emphasizes the dependence of the redeemed upon their Saviour. They are not full grown, but are children; they cannot make it "on their own." Moreover, they are adopted, not heirs in their own right; and further, it is not as heirs SOLE, but as joint-heirs with Christ that they shall inherit, their ultimate inheritance being conditioned absolutely upon their identification with Christ, as being "in him" now and "found in him" at the last day.
24; Emil Brunner, op. cit., p. 73.
Therefore if the Christian does not suffer with Christ, is not identified with Christ/does not remain 'in Christ" then he cannot be JOINT HEIRS with Christ.
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Re: Both Prophet Paul & Prophet Peter Taught Eternal Security
Very telling in how you keep calling the group Christian "nonsense.
I have been saying it is the group Christian that is kept by God, not anyone OUTSIDE of this group. So if one in unbelief falls outside the group he is no longer kept by God.
So it is the group that is kept not any individual if kept unconditionally outside the group.
Originally Posted by Atwood
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, ye have been put to grief in manifold trials, that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold that perisheth though it is proved by fire, may be found unto praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ: whom not having seen ye love; on whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice greatly with joy unspeakable and full of glory: receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. - 1 Pet 1
Now don't come forth with the nonsense about groups, as if there were group faith that resulted in group salvation.
More group nonsense. The word "group" doesn't occur, Seabass. Categorical statement are made about a category of persons indeed.
I am glad that you admit that Christians have been begotten, have incorruptible inheritance in heaven, and are kept by God through faith.
What is nonsense is the suggestion that if Christians have an incorruptible inheritance and are kept by God, that this does not imply that individual Christians have an incorruptible inheritance and are kept by God.
Logic, Seabass:
Given: All Christians have an incorruptible inheritance.
Given: An individual Christian is a Christian.
Therefore: An individual Christian has an incorruptible inheritance.
Give up nonsense & believe God's Word.
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, ye have been put to grief in manifold trials, that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold that perisheth though it is proved by fire, may be found unto praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ: whom not having seen ye love; on whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice greatly with joy unspeakable and full of glory: receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. - 1 Pet 1
Now don't come forth with the nonsense about groups, as if there were group faith that resulted in group salvation.
More group nonsense. The word "group" doesn't occur, Seabass. Categorical statement are made about a category of persons indeed.
I am glad that you admit that Christians have been begotten, have incorruptible inheritance in heaven, and are kept by God through faith.
What is nonsense is the suggestion that if Christians have an incorruptible inheritance and are kept by God, that this does not imply that individual Christians have an incorruptible inheritance and are kept by God.
Logic, Seabass:
Given: All Christians have an incorruptible inheritance.
Given: An individual Christian is a Christian.
Therefore: An individual Christian has an incorruptible inheritance.
Give up nonsense & believe God's Word.
I have been saying it is the group Christian that is kept by God, not anyone OUTSIDE of this group. So if one in unbelief falls outside the group he is no longer kept by God.
So it is the group that is kept not any individual if kept unconditionally outside the group.
[h=3]Jude 1[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called: [SUP]2 [/SUP]mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
I personally beleive once saved always saved b y Father through Son, because I believe Father and Son, I have the contrite heart, Father knows it and gave me the new heart that Father will give all the are serious about knowing Father, and is why Jude wrote this because their were people, taking it for granted
And this amazing gospel, never meant to be taken for granted, and never meant for us to be able to do it. Rather for us to trust God to do it through us in the power of God, via the Holy spirit tells us go and we go, stay and we stay, we are to be led, not do it and be glorified by others
Hebrews 2:3 how shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
Jude said the common salvation, we the Saints have recieved, you believe from Father you are viewed as a Saint from Father, and I sat thank you Christ.
Love you Brother
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called: [SUP]2 [/SUP]mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
I personally beleive once saved always saved b y Father through Son, because I believe Father and Son, I have the contrite heart, Father knows it and gave me the new heart that Father will give all the are serious about knowing Father, and is why Jude wrote this because their were people, taking it for granted
And this amazing gospel, never meant to be taken for granted, and never meant for us to be able to do it. Rather for us to trust God to do it through us in the power of God, via the Holy spirit tells us go and we go, stay and we stay, we are to be led, not do it and be glorified by others
Hebrews 2:3 how shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
Jude said the common salvation, we the Saints have recieved, you believe from Father you are viewed as a Saint from Father, and I sat thank you Christ.
Love you Brother
Re: 2 Pete 1 God Gave Us All Things for Life & Godliness
Paul told the jailer to believe, not "believe only" for the context shows the jailer's belief INCLUDED repentance and being baptized. The participle phrase "having believed" in verse 34 shows belief included repentance and baptism.
As been demonstrated many times eternal security in not in the context of Jn 10:27,28 it is being forced into the text by false teachers.
Salvation is a two sided coin that consists of:
Man's faithfulness to God
God's faithfulness to man
Verse 27 shows man's faithfulness to God in a sustained hearing and following of Christ. Verse 28 shows od faithfulness to man by not allowing him to be snatched out of His hand. So God is faithful to those that remain faithful to Him by not allowing them to be snatched away.
Eternal life is not an UNCONDITIONAL gift, it comes with conditions, as belief and repentance, and if one quits meeting the conditions [quits believing/repenting] he forfeits the gift.
Meeting the conditions never earn the gift but are attachments to the free gift.
Again, Peter is speaking to "Christians" and Peter's words do not apply to those outside this group, those that fall away from the group, 2 Pet 20-22
Paul told the jailer to believe, not "believe only" for the context shows the jailer's belief INCLUDED repentance and being baptized. The participle phrase "having believed" in verse 34 shows belief included repentance and baptism.
As been demonstrated many times eternal security in not in the context of Jn 10:27,28 it is being forced into the text by false teachers.
Salvation is a two sided coin that consists of:
Man's faithfulness to God
God's faithfulness to man
Verse 27 shows man's faithfulness to God in a sustained hearing and following of Christ. Verse 28 shows od faithfulness to man by not allowing him to be snatched out of His hand. So God is faithful to those that remain faithful to Him by not allowing them to be snatched away.
Eternal life is not an UNCONDITIONAL gift, it comes with conditions, as belief and repentance, and if one quits meeting the conditions [quits believing/repenting] he forfeits the gift.
Meeting the conditions never earn the gift but are attachments to the free gift.
Again, Peter is speaking to "Christians" and Peter's words do not apply to those outside this group, those that fall away from the group, 2 Pet 20-22
James justifies the concept of "true faith" by referring to unsaving faith like demons have (believing that, believing that God is one, for example, is not saving faith.)
there is objective faith (I believe that) and dependent faith (I believe in you).
God gave to every man the measure of faith...
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
Your faith can be increased...
[SUP]
14 [/SUP]For we stretch not ourselves beyond our measure, as though we reached not unto you: for we are come as far as to you also in preaching the gospel of Christ:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Not boasting of things without our measure, that is, of other men's labours; but having hope, when your faith is increased, that we shall be enlarged by you according to our rule abundantly,
[SUP]16 [/SUP]To preach the gospel in the regions beyond you, and not to boast in another man's line of things made ready to our hand.
and abound..
Therefore, as ye abound in every thing, in faith, and utterance, and knowledge, and in all diligence, and in your love to us, see that ye abound in this grace also.
...Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth;
Re: ES in the Designation "Overcomer" for Believers
Overcoming is conditional upon keeping Christ's works Rev 2:26..."And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:"
Rev 2 3 there is no eating of the tree of life, no clothed in white raiment, will be hurt of the second death, no inheritance of all things, no sitting down with Christ in His throne if one does not CONDITINANLLY overcome.
Overcoming is conditional upon keeping Christ's works Rev 2:26..."And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:"
Rev 2 3 there is no eating of the tree of life, no clothed in white raiment, will be hurt of the second death, no inheritance of all things, no sitting down with Christ in His throne if one does not CONDITINANLLY overcome.