Is there such a thing as an atheist?

[Kerry]

so you have or serve no purpose?

 

[Kerry]

Also, I need to add:

Just because there are thousands of sites and millions of people who claim to have proof of God doesn't mean the evidence is valid.

The problem with using the word of God as proof of God's existence is that you must first accept that the word of God is the word of God. We need evidence it's the word of God first, which requires you prove the existence of God. This is why his word isn't convincing.

You would make the exact same argument as to why one wouldn't accept the word of Allah as evidence for Allah's existence. Because for the word of Allah to be evidence, one would have to first prove Allah.

And before you say anything telling me I can't disprove God, I'm not here to do so. I'm here to explain why atheists don't find any valid reason to believe in him. We don't believe in God because there's a lack of evidence for his existence, not because there's proof he doesn't exist - something which would be impossible to acquire (you can't disprove the existence of any god or a large number of myths).

If a baseball bat smacked you up side the head would say that the baseball bat didn't exist?

 

[Percepi]

so you have or serve no purpose?

I do have a purpose. It's just not one granted to me by a superior entity.

I enjoy living. I enjoy living well. My purpose is to be happy and one of the things that makes me happy is to make as many other people happy as I can.

I don't need a god to find purpose or reason to live.

"It's a strange myth that atheists have nothing to live for. It's the opposite. We have nothing to die for. We have everything to live for."
-Ricky Gervais

 

[Kerry]

Or would you look at the baseball bat and say where did it come from and why did you smack me upside the head after you came too of course.

 

[Kerry]

I do have a purpose. It's just not one granted to me by a superior entity.

I enjoy living. I enjoy living well. My purpose is to be happy and one of the things that makes me happy is to make as many other people happy as I can.

I don't need a god to find purpose or reason to live.

"It's a strange myth that atheists have nothing to live for. It's the opposite. We have nothing to die for. We have everything to live for."
-Ricky Gervais

Then eat, drink, and be merry for tomorrow we die.

 

[Kerry]

come on sippi talk to me.

 

[Percepi]

If a baseball bat smacked you up side the head would say that the baseball bat didn't exist?

Unless I was smacked from behind, I could see the baseball bat. I could obviously feel the baseball bat. There's plenty of evidence that the baseball bat exists.

I know you're trying to argue that God's existence is as apparent as a baseball bat, but it isn't. Even if I were to assume God was real, there are some important fundamental differences between the two:

Baseball Bat:
Physical Object
Can be directly seen with our eyes.
Can be directly felt with our hands.
Can have it's material evaluated as to understand its chemical makeup.

God:
Non-physical entity.
Can not be directly seen (or, at the least, must WANT to be seen)
Can not be directly felt (or, at the least, must WANT to be felt)
Can not be readily evaluated like other physical objects or subjects, such as the baseball bat or human beings.

 

[Kerry]

I don't bite, well then again.

 

[Kerry]

Unless I was smacked from behind, I could see the baseball bat. I could obviously feel the baseball bat. There's plenty of evidence that the baseball bat exists.

I know you're trying to argue that God's existence is as apparent as a baseball bat, but it isn't. Even if I were to assume God was real, there are some important fundamental differences between the two:

Baseball Bat:
Physical Object
Can be directly seen with our eyes.
Can be directly felt with our hands.
Can have it's material evaluated as to understand its chemical makeup.

God:
Non-physical entity.
Can not be directly seen (or, at the least, must WANT to be seen)
Can not be directly felt (or, at the least, must WANT to be felt)
Can not be readily evaluated like other physical objects or subjects, such as the baseball bat or human beings.

But the baseball bat was made by someone and then someone swung it.

 

[Kerry]

The bat was a piece of lumber that came from a tree but who made the tree?

 

[Kerry]

Are you saying that by chance, a tree grew and then formed into a bat and then smacked you in the head. That's mother goose.

 

[Percepi]

But the baseball bat was made by someone and then someone swung it.

If there's a watch, there must be a watch maker. Thus, if there's a universe, there must be a universe creator. Right?

But I could easily (and just as fallaciously) argue that instead of being hit by a baseball bat, I was hit by a large stick. Nobody created the stick, it came from a tree which grew naturally. Therefore the universe MUST have come into existence through natural means.

Of course, the stick argument doesn't work for the same reasons your baseball bat argument doesn't work.

First of all, you're using an analogy as proof of God's existence. Analogies can't be used as evidence. They can only be used to help one view an argument from a different perspective.

Second, what's true for one object isn't necessarily true for everything else. Just because someone or something created the baseball bat doesn't mean someone or something created the universe. In the same sense, just because something is natural doesn't necessarily mean everything is natural and it doesn't prove the universe came to exist by natural means.

I personally believe the universe came to exist naturally - but I'll openly admit that I don't know. But I won't assume that, just because I don't know, it must have been created.

 

[Kerry]

If there's a watch, there must be a watch maker. Thus, if there's a universe, there must be a universe creator. Right?

But I could easily (and just as fallaciously) argue that instead of being hit by a baseball bat, I was hit by a large stick. Nobody created the stick, it came from a tree which grew naturally. Therefore the universe MUST have come into existence through natural means.

Of course, the stick argument doesn't work for the same reasons your baseball bat argument doesn't work.

First of all, you're using an analogy as proof of God's existence. Analogies can't be used as evidence. They can only be used to help one view an argument from a different perspective.

Second, what's true for one object isn't necessarily true for everything else. Just because someone or something created the baseball bat doesn't mean someone or something created the universe. In the same sense, just because something is natural doesn't necessarily mean everything is natural and it doesn't prove the universe came to exist by natural means.

I personally believe the universe came to exist naturally - but I'll openly admit that I don't know. But I won't assume that, just because I don't know, it must have been created.

so your reasoning is chance, the same as gambling. well if I keep putting my chips on 21 black one day it will hit, sort a thing. Then tell me what is your purpose, I meant why are you here on Earth, to have kids or to work eat and sleep.

I know you have values and where did those come from?

 

[Kerry]

If there's a watch, there must be a watch maker. Thus, if there's a universe, there must be a universe creator. Right?

But I could easily (and just as fallaciously) argue that instead of being hit by a baseball bat, I was hit by a large stick. Nobody created the stick, it came from a tree which grew naturally. Therefore the universe MUST have come into existence through natural means.

Of course, the stick argument doesn't work for the same reasons your baseball bat argument doesn't work.

First of all, you're using an analogy as proof of God's existence. Analogies can't be used as evidence. They can only be used to help one view an argument from a different perspective.

Second, what's true for one object isn't necessarily true for everything else. Just because someone or something created the baseball bat doesn't mean someone or something created the universe. In the same sense, just because something is natural doesn't necessarily mean everything is natural and it doesn't prove the universe came to exist by natural means.

I personally believe the universe came to exist naturally - but I'll openly admit that I don't know. But I won't assume that, just because I don't know, it must have been created.

No a baseball bat is made to specifications and not a stick.

 

[Kerry]

Okay persimmon ( green one) I'm about to bail, God intended for us to sleep, did you know that bacteria do not sleep and most animals do. Reckon why. I meant if we came from such microscopic beings, one would think that we would have retained something.

 

[Percepi]

so your reasoning is chance, the same as gambling. well if I keep putting my chips on 21 black one day it will hit, sort a thing.

Are we talking about how the universe came to be through chance? Or are we talking about the everyday decisions we make in life? You're being incredibly vague and you're not acknowledging the points I made.

More importantly, I just explained how your argument didn't work. Are you going to just ignore it and move onto more questions as if nothing happened?

Then tell me what is your purpose, I meant why are you here on Earth, to have kids or to work eat and sleep.

I know you have values and where did those come from?

We were just talking about creation. Now you're changing the subject.

Every time I make a rebuttal, instead of addressing it, you quickly ask more questions as a means of trying to stump me. I'm perfectly fine with answering any other questions you might have, but let's stop trying to win this debate as if it's a boxing match.

Before I move on, I need to ask you something. Why are you having this discussion with me?

 

[Percepi]

No a baseball bat is made to specifications and not a stick.

Either you didn't read my post, or you need to work on your reading comprehension skills. If that's your response, then you clearly have no idea what the point of my post was.

 

[nl]

"...if God does not exist and there is no immortality, then all the evil acts of men go unpunished and all the sacrifices of good men go unrewarded."

You're speaking as if heaven and hell are the only rewards and punishments one can possibly receive. This is blatantly untrue.

Most often, evil deeds are punished. If you're caught lying to your friends all the time, they tend to leave you. If you're caught stealing from people, you're arrested and thrown in jail and sometimes even prison.

People are also rewarded for doing good all the time as well. Help a friend when they're down, and they might just return that favor. Cover for someone at work, and they may do the same for you when you need a day off.

Yes, many actions do go unrewarded and many others go unpunished. Sometimes, evil actions result in people being rewarded and sometimes good intentioned actions result in pain and suffering. It sucks, but that's reality. Does this mean we should just give up just because the world isn't perfect? Of course not.

If I see someone who needs to borrow 5 dollars for gas, do I refuse it to them saying, "Sorry, but many people need 5 dollars for gas. Since I can't give everyone who needs gas 5 dollars, I'm giving it to nobody since what's the point?" Of course not. The reality is, we try our best to help those we can.

Precepi, thanks for sharing.

"No good deed goes unpunished" is the cynical phrase that I've heard in an office environment. Good deeds are often "ho-hummed" or misrepresented or or even punished.

"Yes men" who give "kiss up" and give "rubber stamp approvals" to higher levels in the hierarchy are often rewarded for their behavior and for not "making waves".

People exalt themselves in vanity and denigrate others in arrogance. Virtual "slapdowns" happen in subtle and not so subtle ways.

The world is unfair. Much of what we do is unseen. Much of what the world around us observes is misunderstood or mis-judged.

Awareness of the presence of God does tend to restrain evil and promote altruism.

There is too much oppression in the world. There are too few who serve others at risk to themselves like a Mother Theresa.

Thank you for buying $5 worth of gas for others. I would do the same and more for you.

 

[Superchristian]

I submit they are simply liars - to themselves and to those they tell that to. We have all heard the saying "there are no atheists in foxholes", well I believe that is true. I believe when facing death every man knows he is facing a meeting with his maker. People simply want to be the man in charge. They don't want to answer to anyone, or anything else. They want to believe they are the ultimate authority in their life, that they run the show. I had a thought a couple of days ago - how long would it take an atheist in a space ship, after being jettisoned out the door like so much flotsam, to call on God? That thought alone makes one feel quite insignificant.

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT] There are no true atheists according to Romans 1:18-20. Atheists often say they lack belief in a god. To me, this is properly define as mere agnostic. When an atheist heard of god or a concept, he can no longer say the lack belief. To continue saying 'I lack belief' is dishonest. Most atheist are really agnostic in truth, they only called themselves atheist just to bug non atheists.

 

[nl]

Agreed. Creation is evidence for a Creator. Existence is evidence for the Pre-Existing One who initiated existence for all others.

Almighty God alone knows hearts and motives but some appear to wish there to be no God. After all, God and Lords have authority and command respect and honor and obedience. A God who made us and our bodies has some say over how best we use our bodies. Ultimately, we belong to Him.

Wishful thinking is a force in which some appear to demonstrate belief. As expressed by Beatle John Lennon in his song "Imagine", some wish there to be no god.

We can still know and have love for atheists and agnostics and enjoy relationship with them.

I recently watched the full version of the documentary film: "The Unbelievers" with Drs. Dawkins and Krauss. It was entertaining and informative. These are real people with real limitations and needs like the rest of us.

Trailer Link: The Unbelievers - Trailer - YouTube

I don't advocate earthly isolation in a "Christian cocoon".